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Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:31 am
by KP429
CallMeCrazy wrote:turkfish wrote:CallMeCrazy wrote:FYI- Harvard professors do follow a strict curve. Almost over 20% of my section received LPs in each course...
This is absolutely not true. The % of LPs per class is no more than 10% on average. No one I've talked to at HLS thinks otherwise, and there have been multiple grade surveys backing the 10% or less number up. Well over half of my section did not receive any LPs. That said, HLS professors do follow a strict curve, but the
exact numbers on the curve are not clear. H seems to be between 30-35% and LP is very close to 10% but definitely not more than that.
On an informal section survey, over 80% of the respondents said that they preferred the new system to the old. And for those worried about not having great exams be rewarded, HLS allows professors to give 1-2 discretionary "Dean's Scholar" awards per class. This is kind of nice because the awards don't really hurt those that don't get them since the actual grade is the same as everyone else who got an H, but it still rewards excellence in a visible way.
Here's a link to the surveys on grades. Take a look at section 5, notice it's the only section that had full participation: --LinkRemoved--
You are a man among.. well.. little boys. Thank you for finally providing something other than hearsay.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:34 am
by SparkyLives
KP429 wrote:CallMeCrazy wrote:turkfish wrote:CallMeCrazy wrote:FYI- Harvard professors do follow a strict curve. Almost over 20% of my section received LPs in each course...
This is absolutely not true. The % of LPs per class is no more than 10% on average. No one I've talked to at HLS thinks otherwise, and there have been multiple grade surveys backing the 10% or less number up. Well over half of my section did not receive any LPs. That said, HLS professors do follow a strict curve, but the
exact numbers on the curve are not clear. H seems to be between 30-35% and LP is very close to 10% but definitely not more than that.
On an informal section survey, over 80% of the respondents said that they preferred the new system to the old. And for those worried about not having great exams be rewarded, HLS allows professors to give 1-2 discretionary "Dean's Scholar" awards per class. This is kind of nice because the awards don't really hurt those that don't get them since the actual grade is the same as everyone else who got an H, but it still rewards excellence in a visible way.
Here's a link to the surveys on grades. Take a look at section 5, notice it's the only section that had full participation: --LinkRemoved--
You are a man among.. well.. little boys. Thank you for finally providing something other than hearsay.
+1
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:39 am
by CallMeCrazy
I'm thinking I should haven't posted it now because it's so easy for someone to manipulate the data...but oh well...And the Fs in crim aren't really Fs...there was a mishap during our test so we had a credit/no credit option.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:47 am
by KP429
I don't understand the enormous disparity in responses from section to section... how does Section 5 have like 90 respondents and 3 has like.. 25 tops?
Also, section 5 is the only section nearing anything like a 25% H/ 45% P/ 25%LP / 5%F sort of scale. Every other section is split basically between H/P (40/40) with the rest earning either LP or F. Could it just be that the lower-achieving (its all relative) kids are just not reporting their grades?
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:52 am
by CallMeCrazy
I think that's the problem...plus I think section 5 just has a different dynamic (that's just my biased opinion though...)
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:57 am
by KP429
Do you have the total number of students from each section by any chance?
It just seems very odd to me that every other section doesn't look like section 5..
every single non-reported grade would basically have to be LP/F in order for the graphs to mirror anything like Sec. 5. Hmm..
Btw, what sort of dynamic does Sec. 5 have anyway? lol You can PM me if you'd prefer
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:57 am
by Pumpkin
if anyone else has any insight on the grades question, could you please weigh in?? really not enthused about a potential curve of 20% getting low pass which sounds worse than a C to me.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:21 am
by CallMeCrazy
I believe there are 82 students in my section...so there may be some over-reporting. My section mates decided beforehand to participate 100% though. Turkfish, talk to anyone in section 5 if you don't believe me...I highly doubt the curve was different for just our section.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:19 pm
by Objection
Someone email 1L2B and ask how latin honors work with the new grading system...
I've emailed them too many times about other stuff.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:16 pm
by KP429
From a blog posted by two contributers on TLS who are 1Ls at Y/H, respectively. This is from the girl at Harvard:
Grades!
So, unlike SB, we have actual grades for the fall semester, and they were released to us last week. Well, I say "actual grades" - I should say "fake grades, but with more options for doing badly than a Yale 1st semester 1L". The new grading system accounts for the fact that most of us, when we got with our grades, reacted with...not fear...not glee...but...confusion. Never before have I looked at my transcripts and not known what to think. The feeling was not universal. Both the kids who got 5 Low Passes and the kids who got 5 High Passes knew what was up. Still, the rest of us had almost no idea.
But, as someone who has gotten some pretty bad grades over the course of her lifetime (I'm not talking about a B, all you college over-achievers out there, I'm talking about bad grades), I'll rejoice in the fact that I appear not to have failed property, and move on. To less confusing pastures, like the job market, where I understand exactly what's going on - lots of rejection. Hopefully, employers will share in the general befuddlement over grades, and hire me on the spot, thinking I'm going to be valedictorian.
Labels: grades, internships
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:19 pm
by Objection
I'm not amused by their silence on the issue.
The cats out of the bag! We know you changed your grading system. The first grades are out.
WTF is with the continued secrecy?
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:02 pm
by masterpinky0509
Does Harvard compensate for travel to the ASW's?
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:29 am
by Krswmact
yes. on the admitted student website they have a schedule based on how far you are traveling from.
Also, the student who I've been talking to only had good things to say about the grading system so far for what its worth
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:32 am
by pinkflamingo
I'm hoping they'll be very open and clear about grades at the ASWs. I mean, I figure when they open up the floor for questions, it'll likely be the first thing we all ask about.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:36 am
by pinkflamingo
Also, here's the blog that the KP429's quote was from, in case anyone wants to read it:
http://similarlysituated.blogspot.com/
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:52 am
by rabbit9198
Thanks for the shout-out, both of you.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:00 am
by iagolives
What can we say; your blog is awesome!
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:20 am
by Pumpkin
hey guys, i posted this in the financial aid thread but i'm really hoping to get some input from Harvard students since this really concerns me so i'm reposting.....
So a big reason for my justifying to myself why i could pick Harvard over say, a full Darrow, is its amazing LRAP program. But in glancing at the income scale, it doesn't seem all that great. For example, someone making 60,000 would owe 3450 a year at Columbia whereas someone who went to Harvard making the same amount would owe 6000.
And i'm talking about a field where going to Harvard doesn't necessarily mean a lot more money. I know Harvard's LIPP covers more types of jobs but i thought it was also supposed to be the best monetarily. Am I missing something in the fine print here??
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:32 am
by jujubean
Pumpkin, I think you're right. I've also been looking into this and I don't think Harvard's program is all that fantastic money-wise compared to, for example, Columbia's. I think the big advantage is that Harvard's program covers a larger field (anything low income, not just PI) and you never have to pay them back, even if you just stay in for a year, the money they gave you is yours. At Columbia, on the other hand, if you stay in a qualifying field less than five years, you have to pay the school back all or a percentage of what their LRAP program gave you. Another thing in Harvard's favor is the great third-year free for PI students, so that's just that much less debt you have.
I'm also very concerned about understanding these LRAPs since they are a big factor in my decision, so if there's anything else that anyone has figured out or if there's anything I got wrong, please share!
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:56 am
by Pumpkin
ok glad i'm not the only one worried. as i posted in my other thread on this (sorry to have 2 going), the problem with using the 3rd free year of tuition as justification for a worse LRAP is that most of us will probably have big money options at other schools in the top 10. so no matter how you spin it, harvard is just going to cost significantly more.
and while i appreciate the flexibility of the LIPP, it seems to be most helpful for those who DONT want to do public interest for that long... since i want to make a career of it, it seems somewhere like columbia's which is more generous but has more PI strings attached is a better deal.
which stinks b/c i want to go to harvard, not columbia!
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:42 am
by dueprocess14
Few other things to keep in mind: I don't know how Michigan does this, but Harvard gives you a guaranteed ~$5,000 for your firt summer and I think ~$7,000 for your second to work anywhere that couldn't afford to pay you. Depending on the type of PI law you hope to practice, this might expand your summer options substantially.
Also, since tuition is around $40,000 a year, waiving a year of tuition is equivalent to a scholarship worth $40,000 a year, and that's before you hear about any need-based financial aid you might receive. I think that factors in for many people, because the average debt load for HLS grads is around $100,000 a year, and I have to imagine that means a lot of people get fairly generous need-based aid, since the sticker price should be closer to $180k...Finally, not sure if you're interested in clerking, but HLS also counts that as LIPP work, so another thing to factor in too.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:31 pm
by AbsolutLax
Yeah guys, I can't wait to attend Yale! ....oh, oh no...this is awwwkwwarrddd wrong thread.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:07 pm
by meesawoosa
Is anyone considering cross-registering into undergrad language classes? Just curious.
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:59 pm
by meesawoosa
oh and heres a link to the hls 2012 facebook group in case anyone hadn't found it.
http://www.facebook.com/inbox/readmessa ... 4402184583
Re: Harvard Class of 2012
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:03 pm
by jfab202
how many people are on the 2012 Harvard Facebook group?