Harvard Class of 2012

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
Harvard1L
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Harvard1L » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:17 pm

Pumpkin wrote:but the new Harvard wrinkle will be the enforced percentage that gets low pass? that seems lame... i know that everyone assumes that they won't be the ones in that category but then again..someone who got into harvard will have to be the unlucky one.


I don't think that there is any hard evidence that there will be an enforced percentage getting a low pass. As far as I know, there will simply be a suggested percentage, which many professors choose not to follow. For instance, one of my professors, who has been quite loose-lipped about the grade change with us, has assured us that he intends to give no low passes (as long as no one tests his generosity). This is no different than with the old grading scale, which also had a suggested percentage for B- grades. Also, I think you can reasonably assume that a competent effort on any exam will save you from a B-. One professor told me that the LP (which is approximately what was formerly a B-) was retained because, hard as it may be to believe, even those unpleasantly competitive super-gunners that comprise the entirety of HLS students blow off classes and exams (particularly as 2Ls and 3Ls).

Pumpkin wrote:Broader question about Harvard.. it's been described for years as a corporate law powerhouse. they've obviously done a lot recently to increase the focus on public interest. anyone (preferably hls students) have any take on whether this has lessened the corporate atmosphere?


First, Harvard has a lot of students. Even if only half of a class went to corporate law, it would still be a corporate law powerhouse. That being said, I haven't felt any pressure to do corporate law since I have arrived here. If anything, I have felt pressure to avoid working at a big firm. None of my teachers advocate going into corporate law (this is probably most people's experience), and campus life is so full of journal writing, pro-bono work, and clinicals that corporate practice seems to have nothing to do with the law school.

Pragmatically, I feel like most students who are serious about having a career in law see the value in spending a couple of years with a big firm to learn the ropes. Certainly once people start thinking about debt and job security, a nice corporate job starts to seem appealing (and firms are always waiting at the nicest restaurants off-campus to wine and dine you). But you can comfortably avoid any interaction with firms your whole time at Harvard, and there are plenty of people and events to support you.

If you want to do government work in the Obama administration (which is starting to seem like it is being staffed by HLS), Harvard gives you a huge edge. Harvard is favored in international public interest placement, too, due to its name recognition. As far as domestic public interest jobs, it is no more or less advantageous than Yale or Stanford. It is one of the best places to go if you want a clerkship or academia. The whole "corporate law dominates at Harvard" myth is so far from the truth it's sort of silly.

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Sunshine2
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Sunshine2 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:53 pm

KP429 wrote:On the downside, I can confirm for you that there still exists seating charts. On my visit to H, every class at Pound had a seating chart behind the podium with cutouts of all the students faces pasted on the seat where they sit during class with little check or X marks next to their names/face. THAT is scary.


What's with these seating charts? What are they for??

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Sunshine2
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Sunshine2 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:02 pm

Pumpkin wrote:nevermind, got it!

Which was it? with L or without??

masterpinky0509
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby masterpinky0509 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:06 pm

Sunshine2 wrote:
Pumpkin wrote:nevermind, got it!

Which was it? with L or without??


I got it too: it's with the L, and I actually got in my using capitalization: First initial Last name .jd12, password: LXXXXXXX...

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SparkyLives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby SparkyLives » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:19 pm

Sunshine2 wrote:
KP429 wrote:On the downside, I can confirm for you that there still exists seating charts. On my visit to H, every class at Pound had a seating chart behind the podium with cutouts of all the students faces pasted on the seat where they sit during class with little check or X marks next to their names/face. THAT is scary.


What's with these seating charts? What are they for??


Cold Calls

Harvard1L
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Harvard1L » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:44 am

SparkyLives wrote:
Sunshine2 wrote:
KP429 wrote:On the downside, I can confirm for you that there still exists seating charts. On my visit to H, every class at Pound had a seating chart behind the podium with cutouts of all the students faces pasted on the seat where they sit during class with little check or X marks next to their names/face. THAT is scary.


What's with these seating charts? What are they for??


Cold Calls


Cold calls, and just being able to know your name when you raise your hand the first week or two of school.

regression
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby regression » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:57 am

i was wondering if anyone is in the JD/MBA program. Is it common for 1Ls to apply for it?
do 1Ls get some slack in the application process by virtue of school affiliation?

Harvard1L
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Harvard1L » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:53 am

regression wrote:i was wondering if anyone is in the JD/MBA program. Is it common for 1Ls to apply for it?
do 1Ls get some slack in the application process by virtue of school affiliation?


Although I am not in the JD/MBA program, I know a number of law students who are. Although I don't think it is common for 1Ls to apply to it, it is not altogether uncommon. However, your application is treated like every other, with no special advantage given by virtue of your affiliation with HLS. Thus, those who make it into the MBA program would have been able to go straight into the MBA program as well.

There is, however, a slight advantage to applying to the KSG from HLS, namely that they take your LSAT score instead of the GRE. This really skews the admissions rate from HLS into the KSG, which I think is over 90%.

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:36 pm

Harvard1L wrote:
regression wrote:i was wondering if anyone is in the JD/MBA program. Is it common for 1Ls to apply for it?
do 1Ls get some slack in the application process by virtue of school affiliation?


Although I am not in the JD/MBA program, I know a number of law students who are. Although I don't think it is common for 1Ls to apply to it, it is not altogether uncommon. However, your application is treated like every other, with no special advantage given by virtue of your affiliation with HLS. Thus, those who make it into the MBA program would have been able to go straight into the MBA program as well.

There is, however, a slight advantage to applying to the KSG from HLS, namely that they take your LSAT score instead of the GRE. This really skews the admissions rate from HLS into the KSG, which I think is over 90%.


I had no idea. This makes me super happy--one fewer standardized exam... Thanks for the info!

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby zabagabe » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:37 pm

FWIW, my understanding from talking to current students is that you can take between 4-6 classes at the business school and/or HKS (apparently they've rebranded it from KSG to Havard - Kennedy School and it's now HKS). If you're not concerned with the additional signal of having an MPP or MBA, you could instrumentally get the coursework anyway. I'm not as familiar with the benefits of a JD/MBA over just a JD (although a friend's dad who got both from Stanford said he regretted bothering with both - in his case, he didn't need the JD), but I've been told by many many people that you don't really get much from an MPP you can't get from a law degree if you're smart with your course choices. Among other sources, Daniel Drezner (ironic, I know) had a blog post recently about that, with evidence coming from the many JDs in Obama's administration and the relative lack of any MPPs (http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... ing_a_list).

(edited to add that if you look through the comments on this piece, they're even more scathing about HKS than is Drezner, and as HLS alums, they might know...)

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:48 pm

hi everybody
i was wondering how soon we can check oue hls email account or is that only set up when we officially accept the offer?

Krswmact
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Krswmact » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:53 pm

you should be able to check it now.

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:54 pm

awesome do you guys know the link?
i looked around the website but couldn't find it...

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excitedutterance
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby excitedutterance » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:59 pm

FrenchiePatootie wrote:awesome do you guys know the link?
i looked around the website but couldn't find it...


https://mymail.law.harvard.edu

your username is 1st initial + last name.jd12 (e.g. jharvard.jd12); your password is your lsac acct number (LXXXXXXXX).

Congratulations!

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:02 pm

How are you guys getting from Logan to the hotel (if you're in Marriot Cambridge or Hyatt)?

Would be an expensive taxi ride right from the airport, but it would be a 2 mile walk w/ luggage if you take the subway to Harvard Square.

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Pumpkin » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:10 pm

whoa that is crafty. how am i supposed to choose another school over harvard if they are already sending emails to my harvard address??? too much!

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bgc
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby bgc » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:13 pm

zabagabe wrote:FWIW, my understanding from talking to current students is that you can take between 4-6 classes at the business school and/or HKS (apparently they've rebranded it from KSG to Havard - Kennedy School and it's now HKS). If you're not concerned with the additional signal of having an MPP or MBA, you could instrumentally get the coursework anyway.


I went and found this link to Dani Rodrick's blog before noticing that Drezner quotes it.
http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_ ... uates.html

HKS faculty members have been active in the Obama campaign, and many of them (such as Jeff Liebman and Samantha Power) are expected to land senior positions. Also, HKS graduates figure prominently among political leaders abroad: the presidents of both Liberia and Mexico are HKS graduates.

But in the U.S., the situation seems quite different. If you are bright and are contemplating a potential career in American politics, you go to a top law school--not a public policy school. This does not seem to have changed much in recent decades despite everything HKS has done to make itself visible and relevant. Why?


I think it is partly inertial. JDs are in power and people wanting to make policy see that and get JDs. It also relates to the style of legal education in America, which is heavily policy oriented.

When I first started planning to go to law school the HLS/HKS JD/MPP seemed like the ideal thing. In talking to people involved with policy, however, it seemed that the MPP would not be a career boost, assuming that one were able to acquire the quantitative tools that accompany an MPP. That is a big assumption, of course, especially when compared to a heavily quantitative MPP such as Duke's.

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excitedutterance
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby excitedutterance » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:20 pm

Objection wrote:How are you guys getting from Logan to the hotel (if you're in Marriot Cambridge or Hyatt)?

Would be an expensive taxi ride right from the airport, but it would be a 2 mile walk w/ luggage if you take the subway to Harvard Square.


I looked into public transport but it seemed too confusing to have to remember after just getting off a plane. This is possibly because I'm not used to efficient or worthwhile public transit systems.

Anyway, I'm cabbing it.

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:26 pm

FYI, the housing application is up.

Edit: NVM, it says this one is only for returning students.

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby zabagabe » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:34 pm

bgc wrote:I think it is partly inertial. JDs are in power and people wanting to make policy see that and get JDs. It also relates to the style of legal education in America, which is heavily policy oriented.

When I first started planning to go to law school the HLS/HKS JD/MPP seemed like the ideal thing. In talking to people involved with policy, however, it seemed that the MPP would not be a career boost, assuming that one were able to acquire the quantitative tools that accompany an MPP. That is a big assumption, of course, especially when compared to a heavily quantitative MPP such as Duke's.


I think you're definitely right. Another interesting counter-position is that because most MPP programs only have a 20-30 year history, those who got MPPs are only just starting to be at the top ranks of policy-making, so this may change in another 10 years (I'm personally somewhat doubtful, outside perhaps of the State Dept.).

And I agree, I think you can get a fair amount of quantitative analysis as part of a JD if you're careful about how you use your electives. Certainly given HLS's strengths in corporate law, I have to think there's got to be a sufficient number of quant-type classes as part of the law school curriculum, let alone HBS or HKS.

Exciting, isn't it? Just talking about this stuff gets me pumped. [/nerd]

Currie84
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Currie84 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:35 pm

Objection wrote:How are you guys getting from Logan to the hotel (if you're in Marriot Cambridge or Hyatt)?

Would be an expensive taxi ride right from the airport, but it would be a 2 mile walk w/ luggage if you take the subway to Harvard Square.


A cab from Logan to Harvard Square is about $30/$35. I would guess that a cab over to those hotels would be like $40 then.

Another option would be to take the T then take a cab. You could take the silver line from the airport and switch to the redline, getting off at Harvard. From Harvard Square you could take a cab to the hotel. Taxis are plentiful, they line up near the Harvard T exit. The downside is that there'd be several legs to your travel (silver line--red line--taxi), which can be annoying. The upside is that it's much cheaper than cabbing directly from Logan to the hotel.

Harvard1L
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Harvard1L » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:45 pm

zabagabe wrote:
bgc wrote:I think it is partly inertial. JDs are in power and people wanting to make policy see that and get JDs. It also relates to the style of legal education in America, which is heavily policy oriented.

When I first started planning to go to law school the HLS/HKS JD/MPP seemed like the ideal thing. In talking to people involved with policy, however, it seemed that the MPP would not be a career boost, assuming that one were able to acquire the quantitative tools that accompany an MPP. That is a big assumption, of course, especially when compared to a heavily quantitative MPP such as Duke's.


I think you're definitely right. Another interesting counter-position is that because most MPP programs only have a 20-30 year history, those who got MPPs are only just starting to be at the top ranks of policy-making, so this may change in another 10 years (I'm somewhat dubious, outside perhaps of the State Dept.).

And I agree, I think you can get a fair amount of quantitative analysis as part of a JD if you're careful about how you use your electives. Certainly given HLS's strengths in corporate law, I have to think there's got to be a sufficient number of quant-type classes as part of the law school curriculum, let alone HBS or HKS.

Exciting, isn't it? Just talking about this stuff gets me pumped. [/nerd]


I agree with you about the JD/MBA and the JD/MPP. If you are thinking about doing a JD/MBA, you should probably ask yourself why both; if you don't want to do law you don't need a law degree, and if you do, you don't need an MBA. A simple MBA is 2 years shorter than the joint program; if you will be happier doing a non-law job, don't do law school. This study of Harvard JD/MBAs is particularly illuminating: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=812425

You're right on target with your analysis about the JD/MPP, I think. The MPP is certainly superfluous, but it isn't without its value in terms of academic work/skills (if you focused on economics/quant). One plus of doing both is that you can use the extra summer allowed by the MPP to explore public interest work. Also, there are fellowships available to law students that cover the full cost of the extra year at HKS.

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Sunshine2
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Sunshine2 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:00 pm

Can you apply to HKS in your first year at HLS? What is the app process like?

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bgc
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby bgc » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:09 pm

Sunshine2 wrote:Can you apply to HKS in your first year at HLS? What is the app process like?


Yes, you can apply in the first year. I'm not sure what the app process is, but I think HKS would take almost any HLS student. Policy schools and law schools are often fishing in the same pond of applicants. Policy schools do not typically get first pick.

I know that many grad programs will take an LSAT in lieu of a GRE for duals. Not sure that applies to HKS.

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bgc
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby bgc » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:12 pm

zabagabe wrote:And I agree, I think you can get a fair amount of quantitative analysis as part of a JD if you're careful about how you use your electives. Certainly given HLS's strengths in corporate law, I have to think there's got to be a sufficient number of quant-type classes as part of the law school curriculum, let alone HBS or HKS.


I think it's a question of discipline and a willingness to forgo other topics. One of the things that does appeal about the MPP, in addition to the PI summer that 1L mentioned, is the ability to get all the quant without sacrificing other law classes.

But I don't think I will judge that to be worth the extra year.




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