Harvard Class of 2012

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
Krswmact
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Krswmact » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:29 pm

I should have come on here instead of being in an email convo with HUID people.

From what Ive been told you are only supposed to put in the first 8 digits of your HUID BUT they are not ready to email pins, so if you want your pin emailed to you, you have to wait a little big anyways

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excelsiorcaelo
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby excelsiorcaelo » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:29 pm

ladymacbeth wrote:How many digits is everyone's HUID? The page where you have to log in with your HUID is only letting me put in 8 digits, but my HUID is 9 digits long. Anyone else having this problem?


Mine is nine and worked just fine.

Krswmact wrote:I should have come on here instead of being in an email convo with HUID people.

From what Ive been told you are only supposed to put in the first 8 digits of your HUID BUT they are not ready to email pins, so if you want your pin emailed to you, you have to wait a little big anyways


Oh, huh. I guess I didn't notice that it cut it to 8 digits when I c/p'd it.

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:33 pm

Ha, its SO overwhelming getting both of those emails at once! I mean, I appreciate getting things asap, but its kind of intense. It just hit me how much debt I/ (we all) will be in in a few months. I mean, I knew it, but seeing the loan terms finally made it real for me.

:shock:

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:08 pm

prelaw wrote:Do people get reimbursed for the first month's rent, last month's rent and security deposit due when they sign a lease? It's kind of a lot out of pocket.


No, I don't think so.

There are places that don't require all of that. The place I'm renting only requires a security deposit at signing. 1st months rent is due at move-in.

Just have to shop around for a place with "cheap" up front costs.

While it is important to know what you can afford on a monthly basis, it is equally important to know what you can afford up-front. It is typical for landlords to require first and last month's rent along with a security deposit. So, for a $1,500 per month one bedroom apartment, you might need to come up with $3,000-$4,500 in order to secure the apartment. Also, if you work with a realtor and choose an apartment shown by the realtor, there will likely be a broker's fee as well.


From http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/stud ... index.html

Ha, its SO overwhelming getting both of those emails at once! I mean, I appreciate getting things asap, but its kind of intense. It just hit me how much debt I/ (we all) will be in in a few months. I mean, I knew it, but seeing the loan terms finally made it real for me.


Yeah man, it's ridiculous.

GradPLUS loans require payment 60 days after the last DISBURSEMENT? Anyone know how easy it is to get a deferral?

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:09 pm

Soooooo we are getting a cash advance before september right? that's what i understand from their wording...

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:22 pm

FrenchiePatootie wrote:Soooooo we are getting a cash advance before september right? that's what i understand from their wording...


You pick up your checks at orientation, I believe. That's what the woman on the phone told me when I called.

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:26 pm

thanks!

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:05 pm

Is it just me or is Harvard's LIPP not nearly as generous as you would expect, especially looking at comperable programs at peer institutions? Any ideas why? If the stereotype holds true that fewer HLS grads go into public service/academia than at other comparable schools, wouldn't they have more money, not less, for the program?

I mean, I'm grateful that they have LIPP at all, especially considering they are under no obligation to do so. However, it just strikes me as slightly odd.

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joshikousei
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby joshikousei » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:09 pm

.
Last edited by joshikousei on Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mallard
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby mallard » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:09 pm

iagolives wrote:Is it just me or is Harvard's LIPP not nearly as generous as you would expect, especially looking at comperable programs at peer institutions? Any ideas why? If the stereotype holds true that fewer HLS grads go into public service/academia than at other comparable schools, wouldn't they have more money, not less, for the program?

I mean, I'm grateful that they have LIPP at all, especially considering they are under no obligation to do so. However, it just strikes me as slightly odd.


I thought Harvard had the second-most generous program of any law school.

jco
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby jco » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:40 am

joshikousei wrote:
excelsiorcaelo wrote:
ladymacbeth wrote:How many digits is everyone's HUID? The page where you have to log in with your HUID is only letting me put in 8 digits, but my HUID is 9 digits long. Anyone else having this problem?


Mine is nine and worked just fine.

Krswmact wrote:I should have come on here instead of being in an email convo with HUID people.

From what Ive been told you are only supposed to put in the first 8 digits of your HUID BUT they are not ready to email pins, so if you want your pin emailed to you, you have to wait a little big anyways


Oh, huh. I guess I didn't notice that it cut it to 8 digits when I c/p'd it.


8 digits. the last one is a duplicate key (or something).


The last digit, which is a 0 at this point, is incremented every time you have your real-world plastic ID replaced so that only one will be up to date at a time.

mallard wrote:
iagolives wrote:Is it just me or is Harvard's LIPP not nearly as generous as you would expect, especially looking at comperable programs at peer institutions? Any ideas why? If the stereotype holds true that fewer HLS grads go into public service/academia than at other comparable schools, wouldn't they have more money, not less, for the program?

I mean, I'm grateful that they have LIPP at all, especially considering they are under no obligation to do so. However, it just strikes me as slightly odd.


I thought Harvard had the second-most generous program of any law school.


Harvard's LIPP is a little hard to evaluate when compared to others. It covers non-public interest, "law related" jobs as well as public interest jobs, but its terms are not as favorable as Yale's, NYU's, and some others. However, you can also qualify to have a full-tuition scholarship for 3L if you are going into a public interest job under the Public Service Initiative.

By the way, a lot of Harvard students do go into academia, but they probably aren't covered by LIPP. Jobs in legal academia are actually cushy enough to not need assistance, and the relatively low-paying clerkships that generally lead up to these jobs do not qualify. My guess as to why the plan is not better is that
1) Harvard chooses to emphasize other areas when distributing funds: they fund research very heavily, the undergraduate financial aid is the best there is, and they are trying to fund a massive expansion into Allston.
2) As much as you hear about the huge endowment, it is not actually the largest on a per capita basis. Harvard is a gigantic university, so the money has to be spread around somewhat.

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Pumpkin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:17 pm

hey all, two clarifying questions..

in terms of all the id numbers and pins, the current glitch in the system is that once you get your id number and pick a pin, they don't email it to you? i'm confused, it said i successfully picked a pin but i don't know what happens next.

second, what are you guys doing in terms of loans? i'm thinking the direct ones look the simplest but has anyone found any much better private deals you can do through gradplus?

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:44 pm

Pumpkin wrote:hey all, two clarifying questions..

in terms of all the id numbers and pins, the current glitch in the system is that once you get your id number and pick a pin, they don't email it to you? i'm confused, it said i successfully picked a pin but i don't know what happens next.

second, what are you guys doing in terms of loans? i'm thinking the direct ones look the simplest but has anyone found any much better private deals you can do through gradplus?


I am still looking, but all the student graduate loans I've seen have interest rates that can vary WIDELY but not a lot of information about what the starting rate is. Most of the rates seem quite steep. It may just be my risk aversion, but a fixed interest rate, even at 8.5%, is more comfortable to me than banks trying to use interest payments to capitalize themselves. :shock:

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Pumpkin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:48 pm

isn't the direct loan 7.9?? or are you counting the initial 2.5%? ooh i hate this stuff

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:03 pm

Pumpkin wrote:isn't the direct loan 7.9?? or are you counting the initial 2.5%? ooh i hate this stuff


Sorry, I was talking about the GRADplus which is 8.5. Stafford is 6.8% I think.

And I hate this too. :(

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Pumpkin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:23 pm

i actually think gradplus is 7.9, unless i'm reading this wrong? plus that pesky 2.5?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... terms.html

not that .6 makes a difference, although i guess times 200k it does!

356a
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby 356a » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:25 pm

Pumpkin wrote:i actually think gradplus is 7.9, unless i'm reading this wrong? plus that pesky 2.5?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... terms.html

not that .6 makes a difference, although i guess times 200k it does!



Yes, compounded, that 0.6 makes a significant difference.

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:12 pm

Pumpkin wrote:i actually think gradplus is 7.9, unless i'm reading this wrong? plus that pesky 2.5?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... terms.html

not that .6 makes a difference, although i guess times 200k it does!


I'm not trying to be difficult, but the citibank website (the bank Harvard makes us go through apparently) and the GRADplus website say 8.5%...

https://www.studentloan.com/findstudent ... atesButton
http://www.gradloans.com/graduate-plus-loan/

Can anyone clear this up, preferrably by proving me wrong? 7.9 makes me happier than 8.5... :)

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 pm

The 2.5% doesn't really compound, does it?

You take out 2.5% more than you actually need, which covers that 2.5% fee. So really, your principle balance (that accrues the 7.5%) is 2.5% higher. So for the max optional loan of $47,400, you'd take out $48,585.

Now, is interest on gradplus loans compounded daily?

If you want to calculate approximately how much debt you'll be in from gradplus...

http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/co ... ulator.htm

Plug in the amount you're taking out this year as the current principal.

Plug in the same amount as the "annual addition."

3 years to grow.

7.9% interest.

365 times annually.

Additions at start

Someone taking out the full amount in loans will be $231,054 in debt (from gradplus alone). Let me know if there is anything faulty in the way I used that calculator. I suck at figuring out anything finance related. I hate math.

Let's say my initial job pays market $160,000 + ~$20,000 bonus. Assume a 6% raise every year*

Your salaries for 5 years would be:

180,000
190,800
202,248
214,383
227,245

To pay off the amount of debt I'll be in (around $335k, gross) in 5 years, I'd need to pay $404,000 over 5 years (I figured this out by calculating the monthly payments required to pay each loan off in 5 years using http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml (from the balance it will be at the end of law school) and adding those amounts together, and multiplying that # by 60).

Assume 35% in taxes

Taxes/Loans/Living

63,000/70,500/47,000
66,780/77,020/47,000
70,786/80,248/51,214
75,034/83,383/55,966
79,536/91,245/56,465

Gets me right about there.

Remember, the "living" column is after-taxes/after-loan spending money. You'd be living on the same amount that someone making $65,000-$70,000/year without loans would be living on.

It won't be easy. It won't be ideal. You won't be driving fancy cars and you probably won't own a very nice house (if you can afford to own a house at all). But, you'll be debt free by age 30 (for those of us coming straight from UG), at which point your living salary will balloon to $150,000+.

It's intimidating, but doable.

Of course, these are very rough calculations, and there will be some give or take in the amount each year. And these are calculations I did specific for my situation, but I figured putting them out there could help others. I don't know how the people going into a similar amount of debt will pay it off if they go into a low paying job.

* assumes market is still $160k and that firms are even hiring when we apply in Fall 2010

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:43 pm

iagolives wrote:
Pumpkin wrote:i actually think gradplus is 7.9, unless i'm reading this wrong? plus that pesky 2.5?

http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... terms.html

not that .6 makes a difference, although i guess times 200k it does!


I'm not trying to be difficult, but the citibank website (the bank Harvard makes us go through apparently) and the GRADplus website say 8.5%...

https://www.studentloan.com/findstudent ... atesButton
http://www.gradloans.com/graduate-plus-loan/

Can anyone clear this up, preferrably by proving me wrong? 7.9 makes me happier than 8.5... :)



http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... terms.html

Interest rate is fixed at 7.9%


Loan fees (2.5%) don't compound in the traditional sense - they are added to the principle.

Loan fees are 2.5% and they are deducted from the loan amount prior to disbursement. Therefore, you will want to increase the amount that you borrow by the fees that will be deducted. We will increase your budget for the fee amount and process the loan at the higher amount. For example if you decide you'd like to borrow the full $47,400, the fee would equal $1,185. You would add the $1,185 to the $47,400 for a total loan amount of $48,585.


So perhaps when you factor in the 2.5% additional that you need to take out, it comes out to the same as 8.5% over time?

Although, you may be looking at the wrong type of loan.

Graduate and professional degree students are now eligible to borrow under the PLUS Loan Program up to their cost of attendance minus other estimated financial assistance in both the FFEL and Direct Loan Program. The terms and conditions applicable to Parent PLUS Loans also apply to Graduate/Professional PLUS loans. These requirements include a determination that the applicant does not have an adverse credit history, repayment beginning on the date of the last disbursement of the loan, and a fixed interest rate of 8.5 percent in the FFEL program and 7.9 percent in the Direct Loan program. Applicants for these loans are required to complete the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA). They also must have applied for their annual loan maximum eligibility under the Federal Subsidized and Unsubsidized Stafford Loan Program before applying for a Graduate/Professional PLUS loan. Click here for more information about Direct PLUS Loans for graduate and professional degree students.


It seems most of us will be doing Direct

--LinkRemoved--

prelaw
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby prelaw » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:09 pm

Objection, where did you find an apartment with such low up front costs? It seems that everywhere I have looked-- craigslist and cambridgepads.com, there are major up front costs included.

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:30 pm

prelaw wrote:Objection, where did you find an apartment with such low up front costs? It seems that everywhere I have looked-- craigslist and cambridgepads.com, there are major up front costs included.


I lucked out. Renting a condo directly from owner. Low up front cost was one of my criteria. I'll let you know if I hear of any others in the same building with similarly low up front costs.

Also, I may have overestimated how much debt I'll be in by $55,000. I sure as hell hope that's the case.

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:05 pm

http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... /debt.html

About halfway down the page, they list 3 examples. I'm confused why the monthly payment for the 2nd example is only $1164. That would make sense if the total debt was just (amount borrowed * 3), but it's not - interest compounds while in school.

Shouldn't it be (Amount borrowed 1L + 3 years of interest) + (Amount borrowed 2L + 2 years of interest) + (Amount borrowed 3L + 1 year of interest)?

Did HLS goof or am I reading this wrong

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:27 pm

Objection wrote:http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/myaid/education-loans/overview/debt.html

About halfway down the page, they list 3 examples. I'm confused why the monthly payment for the 2nd example is only $1164. That would make sense if the total debt was just (amount borrowed * 3), but it's not - interest compounds while in school.

Shouldn't it be (Amount borrowed 1L + 3 years of interest) + (Amount borrowed 2L + 2 years of interest) + (Amount borrowed 3L + 1 year of interest)?

Did HLS goof or am I reading this wrong


I think they goofed man. Perhaps the right calculations were sent to them by the same server that sent us our PINS.

...Was I a bit too harsh on that one?....

Krswmact
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Krswmact » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:20 am

for some reason i was under the impression that the fixed interest rate should be the same whether you choose to do GradPlus direct or GradPlus from a private lender. I thought the main differential between these options were on the different terms of the loan ie forgiveness no job temporarily etc. It could just be that some sites havent updated for the 2009-2010 school year (ive seen a few that explicitly have not)....I could also be wrong.




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