Michigan 2012

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
06072010
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby 06072010 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:07 am

aguyingeorgia wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Anhimal wrote:Alright guys! I'm mailing in my deposit tomorrow =)

Michigan 2012, feels like home already.

Dresden, AwesomePossum and others... I'll see you there. :mrgreen:

Is there a Michigan Law FB group?


Welcome, dude! Congrats! There is a facebook group, PM my ass!


Your ass has a fb account?

I miss Xbox-ing with you.


We're FB friends, dick! LOLOLOL

scarletmuse
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby scarletmuse » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:35 pm

PKSebben wrote:
aguyingeorgia wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Anhimal wrote:Alright guys! I'm mailing in my deposit tomorrow =)

Michigan 2012, feels like home already.

Dresden, AwesomePossum and others... I'll see you there. :mrgreen:

Is there a Michigan Law FB group?


Welcome, dude! Congrats! There is a facebook group, PM my ass!


Your ass has a fb account?

I miss Xbox-ing with you.


We're FB friends, dick! LOLOLOL

You and Anhimal, you and aguyingeorgia, or you and your ass? :D

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aguyingeorgia
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby aguyingeorgia » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:37 pm

I'm so confused. This is worse than the time when I was trying to text Mallard, while watching a duck swim outside. and listening to Daffy Duck talk on tv.

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Margarets
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Margarets » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:46 pm

Ugh still struggling btw Mich and Harv. Any suggestions? I visited Cambridge (and lived there for a summer)... must say, Michigan's facilities are far more impressive.

tcortez
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby tcortez » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:30 pm

Margarets wrote:Ugh still struggling btw Mich and Harv. Any suggestions? I visited Cambridge (and lived there for a summer)... must say, Michigan's facilities are far more impressive.


funny but i thought the same about Penn and Mich. Mich has much better facilities than some of the ivies...strange

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:30 pm

Margarets wrote:Ugh still struggling btw Mich and Harv. Any suggestions? I visited Cambridge (and lived there for a summer)... must say, Michigan's facilities are far more impressive.

Nice facilities are nice and all, but -- go to Harvard.

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Margarets
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Margarets » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:11 pm

snotrocket wrote:
Margarets wrote:Ugh still struggling btw Mich and Harv. Any suggestions? I visited Cambridge (and lived there for a summer)... must say, Michigan's facilities are far more impressive.

Nice facilities are nice and all, but -- go to Harvard.


Even if I've been Darrowed?

prelaw
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby prelaw » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:45 pm

Margarets wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
Margarets wrote:Ugh still struggling btw Mich and Harv. Any suggestions? I visited Cambridge (and lived there for a summer)... must say, Michigan's facilities are far more impressive.

Nice facilities are nice and all, but -- go to Harvard.


Even if I've been Darrowed?


I am in a somewhat similar but not exactly the same situation. I am choosing between Columbia with $80k and a Darrow. I'm pretty close to going with the Darrow. Someone put it to me this way: is the difference in money worth choosing a really, really, really good school over a really, really good school? It may sound simplisitic, but I think the underlying point is that the Darrow is quite valuable as is a Michigan degree. Plus, if you are concerned about not having the same options as a Harvard grad, putting the Darrow on your resume apparently mitigates some of the issues since firms know you could've gone to higher ranked schools. That being said, I think I'd be a little more torn if I was choosing between Harvard and the Darrow.

Just my .02 for what it's worth.

Alexandria
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Alexandria » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:57 pm

I would kill for a Darrow. Seriously, it pains me when people turn them down. I mean, I understand it's not the right choice for everyone, and you have to make your own decision. But knowing that going to Harvard wouldn't have placed me any differently than Michigan has, but not to have any debt... yeah... I would take a Darrow over Harvard in an instant. But that's obviously with the benefit of knowledge that you guys don't have over how your law school experiences will go.

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aguyingeorgia
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby aguyingeorgia » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm

Concur with Alexandria. Take the $$$.

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dresden doll
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby dresden doll » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:59 pm

I'm fairly certain I'd take a Darrow over any school but YLS, and that's only because I've always loved Yale.

prelaw
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby prelaw » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:11 am

I am 70% sure I'm choosing the Darrow.

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:41 am

Margarets wrote:Even if I've been Darrowed?

Yes. I'd say the same about a full ride at any school other than maybe -- but just maybe -- Columbia or Chicago. There is no way around the fact that H has the biggest, broadest, and best placed alumni network of any school in the country (maybe the world). The opportunities you will gain from that alone make it foolish to turn down, and would even give you a solid argument for choosing H over Yale and Stanford. I'd give this same advice if you were talking about Virginia, Penn, or Boalt, and it would just be silly and dishonest not to say the same when it comes to my own school. I'm happy here, and if I had the chance to snap my fingers and transfer to Harvard at this point, I would definitely choose to stay. But if I had your choice to make up front, I would take H without question. I'd say the same if the choice was Stanford or Yale. Michigan is a super fine school, but it is not Harvard, and free tuition is not going to change that.

woeisme
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby woeisme » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:45 am

prelaw wrote:
Margarets wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
Margarets wrote:Ugh still struggling btw Mich and Harv. Any suggestions? I visited Cambridge (and lived there for a summer)... must say, Michigan's facilities are far more impressive.

Nice facilities are nice and all, but -- go to Harvard.


Even if I've been Darrowed?


I am in a somewhat similar but not exactly the same situation. I am choosing between Columbia with $80k and a Darrow. I'm pretty close to going with the Darrow. Someone put it to me this way: is the difference in money worth choosing a really, really, really good school over a really, really good school? It may sound simplisitic, but I think the underlying point is that the Darrow is quite valuable as is a Michigan degree. Plus, if you are concerned about not having the same options as a Harvard grad, putting the Darrow on your resume apparently mitigates some of the issues since firms know you could've gone to higher ranked schools. That being said, I think I'd be a little more torn if I was choosing between Harvard and the Darrow.

Just my .02 for what it's worth.


But you could also put your Columbia scholarship on your resume, right?

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:52 am

prelaw wrote:I am in a somewhat similar but not exactly the same situation. I am choosing between Columbia with $80k and a Darrow. I'm pretty close to going with the Darrow. Someone put it to me this way: is the difference in money worth choosing a really, really, really good school over a really, really good school? It may sound simplisitic, but I think the underlying point is that the Darrow is quite valuable as is a Michigan degree. Plus, if you are concerned about not having the same options as a Harvard grad, putting the Darrow on your resume apparently mitigates some of the issues since firms know you could've gone to higher ranked schools. That being said, I think I'd be a little more torn if I was choosing between Harvard and the Darrow.

The other simple way to look at this is: Do you want to go to a school that will make you look better, or the school where having you will make them look better?

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mightydinosaur
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby mightydinosaur » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:15 am

Margarets wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
Margarets wrote:Ugh still struggling btw Mich and Harv. Any suggestions? I visited Cambridge (and lived there for a summer)... must say, Michigan's facilities are far more impressive.

Nice facilities are nice and all, but -- go to Harvard.


Even if I've been Darrowed?

Take the Darrow! If you've visited both and you like Michigan, why pay $200K just to get the Harvard name on your resume? I know that the name is worth something, but my visit to Michigan convinced me that I can do anything with a U of M degree that I could do with a Harvard degree. Plus I was really happy with all the people I met there--the faculty were so pleasant and involved, and all the students I talked to were smart and friendly.

Personally, I'm choosing between a half scholarship at Michigan and unknown (but probably trivial) aid at Harvard. I'm going to ASW in Cambridge next weekend just to be sure of my decision, but I'm leaning strongly towards Michigan. I grew up near Harvard and I love the school and the area, but if I had a Darrow, I'd have my mind made up and could save my self a plane ticket.

prelaw
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby prelaw » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:21 am


I am in a somewhat similar but not exactly the same situation. I am choosing between Columbia with $80k and a Darrow. I'm pretty close to going with the Darrow. Someone put it to me this way: is the difference in money worth choosing a really, really, really good school over a really, really good school? It may sound simplisitic, but I think the underlying point is that the Darrow is quite valuable as is a Michigan degree. Plus, if you are concerned about not having the same options as a Harvard grad, putting the Darrow on your resume apparently mitigates some of the issues since firms know you could've gone to higher ranked schools. That being said, I think I'd be a little more torn if I was choosing between Harvard and the Darrow.

Just my .02 for what it's worth.


But you could also put your Columbia scholarship on your resume, right?


Nope, it was technically need based in the financial aid package (though they did take the Darrow into consideration).

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skiridedrive
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby skiridedrive » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:11 am

has anyone heard back from phid house yet about their application being accepted?

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dresden doll
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby dresden doll » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:43 am

snotrocket wrote:
prelaw wrote:I am in a somewhat similar but not exactly the same situation. I am choosing between Columbia with $80k and a Darrow. I'm pretty close to going with the Darrow. Someone put it to me this way: is the difference in money worth choosing a really, really, really good school over a really, really good school? It may sound simplisitic, but I think the underlying point is that the Darrow is quite valuable as is a Michigan degree. Plus, if you are concerned about not having the same options as a Harvard grad, putting the Darrow on your resume apparently mitigates some of the issues since firms know you could've gone to higher ranked schools. That being said, I think I'd be a little more torn if I was choosing between Harvard and the Darrow.

The other simple way to look at this is: Do you want to go to a school that will make you look better, or the school where having you will make them look better?


Is the difference between CLS and Michigan so grave that prelaw attending one would make him look good whereas him attending the other would make the school look good? :? I mean, I don't pretend to be any type of a real expert as to how various schools compare and I'm likely biased because I've never really liked CLS (never applied there even) but isn't that a bit overstated? I'm curious to hear more of your opinion here.

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:32 am

mightydinosaur wrote:Take the Darrow! If you've visited both and you like Michigan, why pay $200K just to get the Harvard name on your resume? I know that the name is worth something, but my visit to Michigan convinced me that I can do anything with a U of M degree that I could do with a Harvard degree. Plus I was really happy with all the people I met there--the faculty were so pleasant and involved, and all the students I talked to were smart and friendly.

Personally, I'm choosing between a half scholarship at Michigan and unknown (but probably trivial) aid at Harvard. I'm going to ASW in Cambridge next weekend just to be sure of my decision, but I'm leaning strongly towards Michigan. I grew up near Harvard and I love the school and the area, but if I had a Darrow, I'd have my mind made up and could save my self a plane ticket.

It's genius of them to have a scholarship with a name on it more recognizable than most law schools. I'm pretty sure that has as much to do with peoples' feelings on this as anything. Again though, the big difference is not the "degree" (i.e. not "quality of education" or "number of V20 firms that show up to OCI" or however you want to define "quality"). It's the alumni network. Michigan is a great school, with fantastic and super loyal alumni. Harvard is ... Harvard. Can do anything =/= Will have the chance to do anything.

Don't make the mistake of getting romantic about any law school. When a school wants you to attend, they work hard to make you feel wanted. They want you there because you deliver a direct economic benefit to them, which is far greater than the money that they're "giving" you (in fact, it "costs" the school nothing to give you a named scholarship, because your tuition is 100% replaced by endowment income set aside for that scholarship). What they get from you is also likely much greater than the net benefit of alternatives that you forgo in order to attend. They get paid a shit ton of money to market to the candidates they want, and they're good at it. And obviously the people who hang out with admits are the most friendly and involved, among faculty and students.

I personally think there are, on the whole, a better ratio of decent people to douchebags at Michigan than at most, maybe even all, other law schools, because admissions does seem way to go out of their way to select for human beings here. But in the end, it's still law school, and there is a certain upper bound on how good that's going to get. You should be a lot more selfish and cool about this decision than making it based on which school throws a better 15 minutes of fame for you. The school that doesn't need you is not going to give you that caring glow, and there's a message in that -- people like you are not a scarce commodity there.

Having said all that, if you really have serious personal reasons to prefer Ann Arbor over Cambridge, then I'm not going to call you wrong for choosing one over the other. Or if you attended Harvard as an undergrad and you really want to go somewhere else for law school, then that's your choice too. But if you have not been there, be aware that it's very easy to underestimate the value of those fellow alumni, if you've never had the benefit of them. We'd be as happy to have you as any of the other couple hundred wicked smart and genuinely decent people that they pick every year, and chances are high you would have a great time here. Just make sure it's something more important than warm fuzzies and a few dollars that makes up your mind.
Last edited by snotrocket on Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:57 am

dresden doll wrote:Is the difference between CLS and Michigan so grave that prelaw attending one would make him look good whereas him attending the other would make the school look good? :? I mean, I don't pretend to be any type of a real expert as to how various schools compare and I'm likely biased because I've never really liked CLS (never applied there even) but isn't that a bit overstated? I'm curious to hear more of your opinion here.

Yeah, the difference here is maybe minimal, partly because CLS, like Stanford, tends to attract people with high regional affinity (i.e. who don't leave town after they graduate). That reduces the overall value of the alumni network outside their backyard. What I wonder about this person is why they're not also considering an offer from H, given that they got money from both CLS and Michigan. If they were looking at CLS with $80k vs. Harvard, I would give them the same advice, for the same reasons, as with the choice of Michigan vs. H. Without a named scholarship, Harvard is even more compelling. But I wouldn't spend any time telling them to not choose Michigan over CLS here, and the fact that one school has offered a named scholarship vs. generic $$ is probably enough to make the call. My point was just that there is a flip side to the gaga factor that comes in when people start thinking about amounts of dollars that they've never dealt with before, and there are some pretty simple economic reasons that schools offer you money to begin with.

Pumpkin
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Pumpkin » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:52 am

this thread has been really helpful. think i've ruled out nyu and so it's down to mich/darrow and harvard. and i'd thought i'd ruled out michigan but as i crunched the debt numbers last night it was ghastly. and i have a high enough opinion of myself to be confident that i could get a great job out of michigan, particularly since i'm not looking to be the next solicitor general or whatever.

then again, it is really hard to turn down harvard. eeeek.

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aguyingeorgia
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby aguyingeorgia » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:56 am

All of your bases are belong to us.

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:03 am

aguyingeorgia wrote:All your base are belong to us.

ur doin it wrong

prelaw
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby prelaw » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:03 pm

snotrocket wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Is the difference between CLS and Michigan so grave that prelaw attending one would make him look good whereas him attending the other would make the school look good? :? I mean, I don't pretend to be any type of a real expert as to how various schools compare and I'm likely biased because I've never really liked CLS (never applied there even) but isn't that a bit overstated? I'm curious to hear more of your opinion here.

Yeah, the difference here is maybe minimal, partly because CLS, like Stanford, tends to attract people with high regional affinity (i.e. who don't leave town after they graduate). That reduces the overall value of the alumni network outside their backyard. What I wonder about this person is why they're not also considering an offer from H, given that they got money from both CLS and Michigan. If they were looking at CLS with $80k vs. Harvard, I would give them the same advice, for the same reasons, as with the choice of Michigan vs. H. Without a named scholarship, Harvard is even more compelling. But I wouldn't spend any time telling them to not choose Michigan over CLS here, and the fact that one school has offered a named scholarship vs. generic $$ is probably enough to make the call. My point was just that there is a flip side to the gaga factor that comes in when people start thinking about amounts of dollars that they've never dealt with before, and there are some pretty simple economic reasons that schools offer you money to begin with.


I got the TS1 and still haven't heard back from Harvard.




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