Michigan 2012

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
User avatar
itzjulz
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:54 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby itzjulz » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:29 pm

jdn012 wrote:Sorry guys, it seems unlikely that I will be joining everyone in Ann Arbor in the fall. Michigan turned down my request for merit aid (I used an offer from UVA). Unless something completely wows me at ASW next week, I just don't see it happening.



I'm not getting any merit aid either, yet I'm still leaning towards Michigan. I've gone so far as to write out about 5 different budgets and loan repayment plans to see if and how I can make it work. Ramen noodles and LRAP ftw.

If you've never been to the campus before, prepare to be wowed. I've been to Ann Arbor many times during high school and UG (friends went there), and my absolute favorite place on campus has always been the law quad - before I ever considered going to law school. Just follow your gut after you visit the place. I wanted to go to UM for undergrad, and turned it down because I and my family couldn't afford it. That decision has haunted me in some way ever since, and now that I have a chance at that opportunity again, at this point it would take a *lot* of money from another school to sway me away.

See you next week! :)

User avatar
rightthat
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:55 am

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby rightthat » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:15 pm

itzjulz wrote:prepare to be wowed. :)


TITCR

dkitty520
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby dkitty520 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:17 pm

I'm on the waitlist for the April ASW. Anyone know if Michigan would let me go to all of the events if I made my own hotel reservations. I really want to go!!!

Hitachi
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:38 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Hitachi » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:48 am

PKSebben wrote:
Artvark1 wrote:Care to elaborate on why your wife hates it and what all the sneers are about?


It's cold here. Ridiculously cold. We're used to sitting outside on our deck studying and having some cold ones. The 4-5 months of hibernate weather can give you cabin fever.

Outside of that, we're a little bit older, so the undergrad scene is barf-tastic. It's not like we're from the most cosmopolitan of places, but at least we had a ton of decent restaurants in Orlando. We went to UF as well, and she's having a really hard time coping with a craptastic football team. I got dirty glares every time Threet or Sheridan threw an incomplete pass. That's a lot of dirty looks, my friend. UF winning the National Championship didn't help much (we both transferred from UF to UM).

Ann Arbor could totally be your thing -- don't let me bias you. It's pretty sleepy, the food is cheap (and sometimes good), the beer is plentiful (and also good), and I really like the people.

Some irony that your wife is complaining of juvenilia while having a deeply personal reaction to school sports.

06072010
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:30 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby 06072010 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:33 am

Hitachi wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Artvark1 wrote:Care to elaborate on why your wife hates it and what all the sneers are about?


It's cold here. Ridiculously cold. We're used to sitting outside on our deck studying and having some cold ones. The 4-5 months of hibernate weather can give you cabin fever.

Outside of that, we're a little bit older, so the undergrad scene is barf-tastic. It's not like we're from the most cosmopolitan of places, but at least we had a ton of decent restaurants in Orlando. We went to UF as well, and she's having a really hard time coping with a craptastic football team. I got dirty glares every time Threet or Sheridan threw an incomplete pass. That's a lot of dirty looks, my friend. UF winning the National Championship didn't help much (we both transferred from UF to UM).

Ann Arbor could totally be your thing -- don't let me bias you. It's pretty sleepy, the food is cheap (and sometimes good), the beer is plentiful (and also good), and I really like the people.

Some irony that your wife is complaining of juvenilia while having a deeply personal reaction to school sports.


1) Obvious hyperbole 2) Cheering for a sports team isn't the same thing as a raging frat kegger, douche.

User avatar
tl
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:04 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby tl » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:00 pm

PKSebben wrote:
Do we know each other? Do you know who I am?


We do not know each other, but I know who you are.

User avatar
tl
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:04 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby tl » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:02 pm

Alexandria wrote:I know so few 1Ls that whatever you said to out yourself probably didn't mean much to me. I don't mean that in an assholey way... I'm sure you 1Ls are great. :) I was very social as a 1L, and I feel like a hermit as a 2L.


Yeah, you really don't know me IRL because you easily glanced over my name being in the thread. I hope I'm not a hermit as a 2L. I figure I'll have less to do, so I'll want to party even more.

Alexandria
Posts: 593
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:41 am

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Alexandria » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:24 pm

tl wrote:
Alexandria wrote:I know so few 1Ls that whatever you said to out yourself probably didn't mean much to me. I don't mean that in an assholey way... I'm sure you 1Ls are great. :) I was very social as a 1L, and I feel like a hermit as a 2L.


Yeah, you really don't know me IRL because you easily glanced over my name being in the thread. I hope I'm not a hermit as a 2L. I figure I'll have less to do, so I'll want to party even more.


No, seriously... 2L is WAY more work than 1L. Ask PK. And scarletmuse. 1L was much more fun.

06072010
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:30 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby 06072010 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:36 pm

tl wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Do we know each other? Do you know who I am?


We do not know each other, but I know who you are.


Creeeeeepy!

scarletmuse
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:44 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby scarletmuse » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:56 pm

Alexandria wrote:
tl wrote:
Alexandria wrote:I know so few 1Ls that whatever you said to out yourself probably didn't mean much to me. I don't mean that in an assholey way... I'm sure you 1Ls are great. :) I was very social as a 1L, and I feel like a hermit as a 2L.


Yeah, you really don't know me IRL because you easily glanced over my name being in the thread. I hope I'm not a hermit as a 2L. I figure I'll have less to do, so I'll want to party even more.


No, seriously... 2L is WAY more work than 1L. Ask PK. And scarletmuse. 1L was much more fun.


Holy hell, she does not lie. Spring of 1L is the busiest, worst semester until you experience fall of 2L. And then fall of 3L was like suicide on a stick. Spring of 3L is pretty fun, though. 41 days . . . !

Alexandria
Posts: 593
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:41 am

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Alexandria » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:20 pm

But fall 3L only sucks if you're on ed board of a journal, right?

I am planning on NO extra-curriculars (except Campbell and AE duties) next year.

awesomepossum
Posts: 928
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 12:49 am

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby awesomepossum » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:22 pm

Thanks guys. I am so happy knowing what's in store.

:( :shock: :? :cry: :!: :?: :!:

scarletmuse
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:44 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby scarletmuse » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:45 pm

I do not know a single 3L who was on campus this fall and was not miserable. It was a semester of near-universal suckage. Sorry, kids! (Hopefully we were just a particularly disgruntled class or there was some weird astrological thing happening or something).

06072010
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:30 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby 06072010 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:45 pm

Alexandria wrote:But fall 3L only sucks if you're on ed board of a journal, right?


I'm hoping that the ed-board workload won't totally ruin my 3L slack-off session. Please make sure that any responses to the original question are in line with my worldview. Thanks in advance.

scarletmuse
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:44 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby scarletmuse » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:48 pm

PKSebben wrote:
Alexandria wrote:But fall 3L only sucks if you're on ed board of a journal, right?


I'm hoping that the ed-board workload won't totally ruin my 3L slack-off session. Please make sure that any responses to the original question are in line with my worldview. Thanks in advance.


I didn't know you were on an Ed Board! What journal?
And don't worry, there's a pretty big range in the Ed Board time-commitment vortex.

Alexandria
Posts: 593
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:41 am

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Alexandria » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:46 pm

In case you're interested, the Res Gestae (student newspaper) apparently has a new website. That's sweet, bc the old website hadn't been updated since the school year before last.

http://www.theresgestae.com/

LookyLou
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:53 pm

Pollyanna asks, do you enjoy your days?

Postby LookyLou » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:13 pm

Here's a question for current Michigan students...

Three weeks ago I sat in on two classes at Northwestern and one at Ann Arbor as well. (I'm leaning Michigan, especially if I can swing some money)
The classes were randomly selected, and they seemed really interesting with pretty dynamic professors and tricky mental jujitsu required. The Socratic probing seemed fun, too. To me, 3 years of this would appear to be really stimulating and satisfying.
From an outsider's perspective, even the reading while preparing for these classes seems like it would be fun - it's the same stuff as the lectures, right? I like public policy and ethical dilemmas, and the classes seemed full of those.
So by my math, spending 4-6 hours a day prepping for 2-3 hours of lectures is the same as working a regular job of 6-9 hours, except that it's actually interesting and grows the brain.

Yet.... everyone complains and says that law school is unbearably tough and grueling and that many many people there are miserable. I can understand how working in a BIGLAW firm would be, but LAW SCHOOL? What am I missing? Is this too good to be true?

So, please, please - educate this simple gal. I don't want to make a blunder with my career choice and the next 32 months of my life. Any current or graduated students please weigh in! :mrgreen:
Thanks,
Lulu

mr.undroppable
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:41 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby mr.undroppable » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:31 pm

LookyLou wrote:Yet.... everyone complains and says that law school is unbearably tough and grueling and that many many people there are miserable. I can understand how working in a BIGLAW firm would be, but LAW SCHOOL? What am I missing? Is this too good to be true?


anyone who complains of the workload has never worked a full time job before, a large percentage of the people who complain are college kids who have never been employed at a serious job or people who have trouble managing their own time without a boss to tell them when and what to do.

As to what makes law school tough, it is the added pressure above and beyond just preparing for class. When you were sitting in class did you feel smarter than 90% of the people sitting around you? Because if not prepare to have your confidence rocked when you get your finals results back. And if you aren't smarter than at least 50~60% of them you might have your future messed up as well by not finding suitable employment, or at least not your first choice. And as far as stimulating policy discussions? Get ready to listen to the same five people espouse the same five political views every day, every class, for the whole year.

06072010
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:30 pm

Re: Pollyanna asks, do you enjoy your days?

Postby 06072010 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:50 pm

LookyLou wrote:Here's a question for current Michigan students...

Three weeks ago I sat in on two classes at Northwestern and one at Ann Arbor as well. (I'm leaning Michigan, especially if I can swing some money)
The classes were randomly selected, and they seemed really interesting with pretty dynamic professors and tricky mental jujitsu required. The Socratic probing seemed fun, too. To me, 3 years of this would appear to be really stimulating and satisfying.
From an outsider's perspective, even the reading while preparing for these classes seems like it would be fun - it's the same stuff as the lectures, right? I like public policy and ethical dilemmas, and the classes seemed full of those.
So by my math, spending 4-6 hours a day prepping for 2-3 hours of lectures is the same as working a regular job of 6-9 hours, except that it's actually interesting and grows the brain.

Yet.... everyone complains and says that law school is unbearably tough and grueling and that many many people there are miserable. I can understand how working in a BIGLAW firm would be, but LAW SCHOOL? What am I missing? Is this too good to be true?

So, please, please - educate this simple gal. I don't want to make a blunder with my career choice and the next 32 months of my life. Any current or graduated students please weigh in! :mrgreen:
Thanks,
Lulu


I think there is a significant amount of work, and I'm a nontrad who's had a real job. I work pretty hard, though your mileage may vary. I don't find most Socratic questioning satisfying, mostly because a lot of professors suck at it. I have a professor that's an absolute master of it this semester, and I do enjoy that. Also, Mr. Undroppable has it right -- I'm so over the policy debates. Every once in a while I'll hear something novel and interesting, but mostly it's just people cranking the same handle.

Alexandria
Posts: 593
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:41 am

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Alexandria » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:56 pm

Yeah, another nontrad here who has had full-time jobs... I think you're underestimating the amount of prep time for one thing, especially when you start to have seminars and other classes that are heavy on the reading (lots of journal articles instead of two or three cases). Also, yeah, it definitely depends how much pressure you put on yourself to do well. I put a lot on myself, so I work a lot. And if you have callbacks or you're on a journal or you're doing moot court or you're involved in putting on an event for a student group (all of which I did this year), those are all very time-consuming as well.

Don't get me wrong... I enjoy what I'm doing... I think it's satisfying and a good fit for me... but I am exhausted... and much more so as a 2L than I was as a 1L.

tcortez
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby tcortez » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:53 pm

scarletmuse wrote:I do not know a single 3L who was on campus this fall and was not miserable. It was a semester of near-universal suckage. Sorry, kids! (Hopefully we were just a particularly disgruntled class or there was some weird astrological thing happening or something).


Why was it so awful? Was it the school? Too busy? The economy? I usually hear wonderful things about Michigan so i'm wondering why there are so many negatives. Can you elaborate?

scarletmuse
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:44 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby scarletmuse » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:35 pm

tcortez wrote:
scarletmuse wrote:I do not know a single 3L who was on campus this fall and was not miserable. It was a semester of near-universal suckage. Sorry, kids! (Hopefully we were just a particularly disgruntled class or there was some weird astrological thing happening or something).


Why was it so awful? Was it the school? Too busy? The economy? I usually hear wonderful things about Michigan so i'm wondering why there are so many negatives. Can you elaborate?


Yeah, to be clear, I'm one of the people you generally hear gushing about Michigan. My experience here has been overwhelmingly positive in the balance. I think this fall was a combination of things. For me personally, it was the grand slam of a) the class I had been most looking forward to being really, really disappointing, b) getting pneumonia mid-semester, c) being EIC of my journal and not anticipating just how much work that was going to entail in the fall, and d) many of my dearests deciding to study abroad.

As for why it sucked in general, I think there were probably a few factors but the economy was huge. I think everyone was waiting for the sword of Damocles which may or may not have been hanging over all or some of our heads to drop. There was a sense that probably some people had been no-offered, but no one knew anyone it had happened to, so we didn't know whether we had been spared or people were just being quiet. Which meant that 3Ls didn't want to talk to one another (even good friends!) about future plans. Public interest people who rarely know about post-graduation jobs in the fall were worrying a) that their funding would disappear, and b) that there would be more competition than ever for those jobs. People applying for government jobs were told that applications could be up by as much as 100% due to the new administration and the economy. Even the faculty and administration were a bit at sea in terms of advising us – there's never been an economy quite like this in their professional lifetimes.

That said, I can't explain why that atmosphere of misery seems to have dissipated this semester, since if anything the economy is worse now. I think there are two explanations (notice my affinity for lists?): a) we are inherently self-absorbed creatures, and I perceive everyone to be happier because I am, and b) there's less uncertainty about what's coming. There's still some angst about career stuff, because even those whose firms seem healthy now fear that they could go tets up next week. Hell, I'm going to the federal government and I occasionally worry about my job disappearing. But by and large people know how the economy has impacted them and have a game plan to address it.

I have no reason to believe that Michigan has been hit harder by the economic environment than any of our peer schools; in fact, my impression is that our administration and ocs were far more proactive than most. This summer, while everyone else was still playing in the Happy Fantasyland sandbox, Michigan 3Ls were getting weekly emails full of sturm und drang (ie don't assume you're getting an offer, here's stuff you can do now to hedge your bets, here's how we can help, etc.) Seriously, my fellow SAs got a kick out of it, since they weren't hearing word one from their schools. I think that this has worked to our advantage in the long run, but holy crap did it add to the general atmosphere of anxiety, doom and gloom.

tcortez
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby tcortez » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:51 pm

scarletmuse wrote:
tcortez wrote:
scarletmuse wrote:I do not know a single 3L who was on campus this fall and was not miserable. It was a semester of near-universal suckage. Sorry, kids! (Hopefully we were just a particularly disgruntled class or there was some weird astrological thing happening or something).


Why was it so awful? Was it the school? Too busy? The economy? I usually hear wonderful things about Michigan so i'm wondering why there are so many negatives. Can you elaborate?



Yeah, to be clear, I'm one of the people you generally hear gushing about Michigan. My experience here has been overwhelmingly positive in the balance. I think this fall was a combination of things. For me personally, it was the grand slam of a) the class I had been most looking forward to being really, really disappointing, b) getting pneumonia mid-semester, c) being EIC of my journal and not anticipating just how much work that was going to entail in the fall, and d) many of my dearests deciding to study abroad.

As for why it sucked in general, I think there were probably a few factors but the economy was huge. I think everyone was waiting for the sword of Damocles which may or may not have been hanging over all or some of our heads to drop. There was a sense that probably some people had been no-offered, but no one knew anyone it had happened to, so we didn't know whether we had been spared or people were just being quiet. Which meant that 3Ls didn't want to talk to one another (even good friends!) about future plans. Public interest people who rarely know about post-graduation jobs in the fall were worrying a) that their funding would disappear, and b) that there would be more competition than ever for those jobs. People applying for government jobs were told that applications could be up by as much as 100% due to the new administration and the economy. Even the faculty and administration were a bit at sea in terms of advising us – there's never been an economy quite like this in their professional lifetimes.

That said, I can't explain why that atmosphere of misery seems to have dissipated this semester, since if anything the economy is worse now. I think there are two explanations (notice my affinity for lists?): a) we are inherently self-absorbed creatures, and I perceive everyone to be happier because I am, and b) there's less uncertainty about what's coming. There's still some angst about career stuff, because even those whose firms seem healthy now fear that they could go tets up next week. Hell, I'm going to the federal government and I occasionally worry about my job disappearing. But by and large people know how the economy has impacted them and have a game plan to address it.

I have no reason to believe that Michigan has been hit harder by the economic environment than any of our peer schools; in fact, my impression is that our administration and ocs were far more proactive than most. This summer, while everyone else was still playing in the Happy Fantasyland sandbox, Michigan 3Ls were getting weekly emails full of sturm und drang (ie don't assume you're getting an offer, here's stuff you can do now to hedge your bets, here's how we can help, etc.) Seriously, my fellow SAs got a kick out of it, since they weren't hearing word one from their schools. I think that this has worked to our advantage in the long run, but holy crap did it add to the general atmosphere of anxiety, doom and gloom.



Ok so that makes sense. I guess Pneumonia is enough to make anyone's life awful. I got a mild case tied with the flu about 3 weeks ago so I understand that. It seems like it was just a bit overwhelming for you but that is more so based on outside factors rather than the school itself, right? I know it has to be a scary climate right now because i've heard dozens of people didn't get offers coming out of the Ivy's, which I'm guessing were assuming their name would get them a job automatically. Its good to know Mich was more proactive about dealing with this awful economy. And combined with the new journal responsibilities and your friends bouncing for a semester, I can see how that would kind of suck. I am choosing between Mich and another peer school and what makes me unable to write off Mich even though I had a great ASW with the other school is I hear the quality of life at Mich is excellent, regardless of the program. So it seems like that is still pretty consistent with what I've heard.

I wonder who is not happy at Michigan at all? That i'd be curious to hear about.

scarletmuse
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:44 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby scarletmuse » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:52 pm

mr.undroppable wrote:
LookyLou wrote:Yet.... everyone complains and says that law school is unbearably tough and grueling and that many many people there are miserable. I can understand how working in a BIGLAW firm would be, but LAW SCHOOL? What am I missing? Is this too good to be true?


anyone who complains of the workload has never worked a full time job before, a large percentage of the people who complain are college kids who have never been employed at a serious job or people who have trouble managing their own time without a boss to tell them when and what to do.

As to what makes law school tough, it is the added pressure above and beyond just preparing for class. When you were sitting in class did you feel smarter than 90% of the people sitting around you? Because if not prepare to have your confidence rocked when you get your finals results back. And if you aren't smarter than at least 50~60% of them you might have your future messed up as well by not finding suitable employment, or at least not your first choice. And as far as stimulating policy discussions? Get ready to listen to the same five people espouse the same five political views every day, every class, for the whole year.


I'm going to go ahead and disagree with almost everything in this post. The workload is tough, and I had a previous career and another graduate degree before starting law school. Manageable for sure, but it's absurd to mock or deride anyone who complains about it.

That aside, don't ever make the mistake of correlating grades with smarts. I mean, they're not totally independent variables, but law school exams reward a whole list of skills and qualities to a varying degree, and raw intelligence is pretty far down on that list. Hell, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that almost everyone here is "smarter" than the person who booked one of my 1L courses. If you head into school expecting to be sorted according to intelligence, one of three things is going to happen: 1) you're going to have to reevaluate your whole sense of self after a few months, 2) you're going to become an insufferably smug prick after a few months, or 3) you're going to need extra therapy to cope with your constantly changing self-assessment.

LookyLou
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: Michigan 2012

Postby LookyLou » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:22 pm

Thanks for the posts, and the valuable information contained therein. But no one really answered my question! One more time....

Is the day to day routine of readings and lectures satisfying and interesting to you?


I doubt that I will practice law, don't care about the money, and mainly intend my law school experience as being an interesting chance to grow and learn. To me, it seems like fun. Pitting myself against some of the country's top minds is appealing to me. I like hanging out with smart people, and don't get to do much of that where I am at.
So, here's the poll.... Ignoring the hoped-for paycheck, the prestige, and all that jazz, DO YOU LIKE LAW SCHOOL? As in ***fun.*** Or am I a wet-behind-the-ears pollyanna who doesn't know what kind of toil and misery she's getting herself into?




Return to “TLS Class of 2012 Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests