Michigan 2012

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
annarborbound
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby annarborbound » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:18 am

MLaw11 wrote:
annarborbound wrote:Well, it looks like that won't be a concern for me -- I will apparently be having a lot of free time that week...and next year...

I know this is bad, but how bad? I don't know any 2Ls/3Ls from last year who weren't on any journal, so I can't really tell how much trouble I'm in. Ugh.


Join the club.


Sorry dude. It's nice to know I'm not alone, but I'm sorry to hear you're in my boat.

2Ls/3Ls: What are we supposed to do? What do we tell interviewers? I'm seriously panicking.

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joyce615
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby joyce615 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:24 am

there's a fixed number of journal spots this year as there was last year so it's not like you're really in a bad position. there will always be people who don't make it on journal and still do very well in OCI. even ITE, i doubt journal membership will dictate your OCI success...it'll be more likely your grades.

Alexandria
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Alexandria » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:11 am

I also know people who CHOSE not to be on a journal (including one friend with absolutely stellar grades). Some people think it's not worth it, that it doesn't matter that much in hiring. It's not for everyone. So you don't have to tell interviewers that you tried and weren't picked. Hopefully you've been involved in something else at school that you can tell them about, to show them some other interest and involvement.

scarletmuse
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby scarletmuse » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:39 am

Also, fwiw, it's still CRAZY early to be hearing back from journals. Last year I don't think we notified people until after July 4th. I wouldn't panic just yet.

mich_questions
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby mich_questions » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:56 am

Who has sent out letters besides Law Reform and Technology? Does Law Review do it by letter or email?

MLaw11
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby MLaw11 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:18 pm

scarletmuse wrote:Also, fwiw, it's still CRAZY early to be hearing back from journals. Last year I don't think we notified people until after July 4th. I wouldn't panic just yet.

I can't speak for everyone, but I was notified in the negative.

Alexandria wrote:I also know people who CHOSE not to be on a journal (including one friend with absolutely stellar grades). Some people think it's not worth it, that it doesn't matter that much in hiring. It's not for everyone. So you don't have to tell interviewers that you tried and weren't picked.

Right. Easy enough, and my grades are actually quite good, so it's just a matter of putting the appropriate spin on it...
"Hopefully you've been involved in something else at school that you can tell them about, to show them some other interest and involvement."
...and this is why that's going to be difficult to do. We'll see if Career Services has any brilliant ideas.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Aeroplane » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:23 pm

Alexandria wrote:I also know people who CHOSE not to be on a journal (including one friend with absolutely stellar grades). Some people think it's not worth it, that it doesn't matter that much in hiring. It's not for everyone. So you don't have to tell interviewers that you tried and weren't picked. Hopefully you've been involved in something else at school that you can tell them about, to show them some other interest and involvement.
A friend of mine from one of DCNG, didn't bother with journals and still got a COA clerkship.

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tl
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby tl » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:52 pm

Journals are overrated. Just put Moot Court on your resume and keep it moving.

annarborbound
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby annarborbound » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:03 pm

I agree that journals are overrated. But that doesn't mean that everybody who matters doesn't use them as some sort of proxy for determining your skills. And I'm also upset because I worked really hard on the applications. My writing sample was from Legal Practice, and my Professor had given me the equivalent of an "A" on it -- plus I put in extra work to fix it up. I worked hard on the essays and the Bluebook portions. I don't really know where I went wrong. I wish I could get some kind of feedback other than a big fat no.

Aeroplane, I am relieved to hear about your friend's success ... what is DCNG?

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Aeroplane
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Aeroplane » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:10 pm

annarborbound wrote:I agree that journals are overrated. But that doesn't mean that everybody who matters doesn't use them as some sort of proxy for determining your skills. And I'm also upset because I worked really hard on the applications. My writing sample was from Legal Practice, and my Professor had given me the equivalent of an "A" on it -- plus I put in extra work to fix it up. I worked hard on the essays and the Bluebook portions. I don't really know where I went wrong. I wish I could get some kind of feedback other than a big fat no.

Aeroplane, I am relieved to hear about your friend's success ... what is DCNG?
Duke/Cornell/NW/GULC. I didn't want to be too specific.

mich_questions
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby mich_questions » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:04 pm

MLaw11 wrote:
scarletmuse wrote: I can't speak for everyone, but I was notified in the negative


Wait, you heard back from MLR already? Or other journals?

annarborbound
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby annarborbound » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:16 pm

MLaw11 wrote:
scarletmuse wrote:Also, fwiw, it's still CRAZY early to be hearing back from journals. Last year I don't think we notified people until after July 4th. I wouldn't panic just yet.

I can't speak for everyone, but I was notified in the negative.

Alexandria wrote:I also know people who CHOSE not to be on a journal (including one friend with absolutely stellar grades). Some people think it's not worth it, that it doesn't matter that much in hiring. It's not for everyone. So you don't have to tell interviewers that you tried and weren't picked.

Right. Easy enough, and my grades are actually quite good, so it's just a matter of putting the appropriate spin on it...
"Hopefully you've been involved in something else at school that you can tell them about, to show them some other interest and involvement."
...and this is why that's going to be difficult to do. We'll see if Career Services has any brilliant ideas.


I'm not holding my breath on Career Services having brilliant ideas, but please let me know if they come up with anything. My grades are good, too, but I can't imagine how to put a good spin on this when there seems to be an absolute consensus that if you get the opportunity to do journal work, you should do it.

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joyce615
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby joyce615 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:01 pm

firms say they prefer journal membership, but if your interests lie elsewhere (like in clinics or moot court), then i'm sure you can just state that without them looking at you and wondering "WTF, you didn't do journal??" i also don't think firms even ask this because understandably, not everyone gets on a journal. i've also heard that the only journal membership that makes any difference is law review.

i personally didn't apply to the secondary journals. i know others who didn't. i'm planning to say that i'm interested in doing moot court and a clinic in the spring, and i wanted to devote adequate time to those activities seeing that i'm also involved in a student group. just have a decent explanation in case you're asked.

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joyce615
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby joyce615 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:04 pm

mich_questions wrote:Who has sent out letters besides Law Reform and Technology? Does Law Review do it by letter or email?


my friend said LR calls you and you get a letter later. apparently they also send out a lawopen email with names of those who made LR to congratulate them, which also serves as your notice of rejection. LOL to that one if that's true.

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:06 pm

joyce615 wrote:Apparently they also send out a lawopen email with names of those who made LR to congratulate them, which also serves as your notice of rejection. LOL to that one if that's true.

Classy. Especially if this is the first of the three things that they do.

MLaw11
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby MLaw11 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:16 pm

mich_questions wrote:Wait, you heard back from MLR already? Or other journals?

I didn't apply to LR, only secondary. I've heard that you still have a few weeks of waiting on that one, but I'm kind of out of the loop as well.

annarborbound
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby annarborbound » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:42 pm

snotrocket wrote:
joyce615 wrote:Apparently they also send out a lawopen email with names of those who made LR to congratulate them, which also serves as your notice of rejection. LOL to that one if that's true.

Classy. Especially if this is the first of the three things that they do.


Agreed. My guess is they send people letters of rejection before they write the lawopen email, but given that the Internet is faster than the USPS, most people find out through their email...

That's the other part of this that stinks: not just having employers judge you, but feeling like your peers are, too.

granitemuse
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby granitemuse » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:47 pm

so you apply to Law Review and secondary journals concurrently?

what happens if you get into both?

annarborbound
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby annarborbound » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:52 pm

granitemuse wrote:so you apply to Law Review and secondary journals concurrently?

Yes.

what happens if you get into both?


You consider yourself extremely lucky? I think technically you could do both, but I imagine most people would take LR and run.

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:54 pm

granitemuse wrote:so you apply to Law Review and secondary journals concurrently? what happens if you get into both?

That's up to you. I guess most people that went through the pain of doing the MLR write-on would take that. At least one secondary journal has a waitlist that they draw from to fill holes left by people who also get law review.

annarborbound
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby annarborbound » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:32 pm

snotrocket wrote:
granitemuse wrote:so you apply to Law Review and secondary journals concurrently? what happens if you get into both?

That's up to you. I guess most people that went through the pain of doing the MLR write-on would take that. At least one secondary journal has a waitlist that they draw from to fill holes left by people who also get law review.


Which journal? How long is the waitlist? And how do you know these things?

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joyce615
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby joyce615 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:38 pm

i know JLR has a waitlist

MLaw11
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby MLaw11 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:19 pm

annarborbound wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
granitemuse wrote:so you apply to Law Review and secondary journals concurrently? what happens if you get into both?

That's up to you. I guess most people that went through the pain of doing the MLR write-on would take that. At least one secondary journal has a waitlist that they draw from to fill holes left by people who also get law review.


Which journal? How long is the waitlist? And how do you know these things?

I'm actually on the MTTLR waitlist. I just treat such things as rejections because it's probably still a no. That's at least two of them then from what joyce said.

annarborbound
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby annarborbound » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:36 pm

MLaw11 wrote:
annarborbound wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
granitemuse wrote:so you apply to Law Review and secondary journals concurrently? what happens if you get into both?

That's up to you. I guess most people that went through the pain of doing the MLR write-on would take that. At least one secondary journal has a waitlist that they draw from to fill holes left by people who also get law review.


Which journal? How long is the waitlist? And how do you know these things?

I'm actually on the MTTLR waitlist. I just treat such things as rejections because it's probably still a no. That's at least two of them then from what joyce said.



So you're not actually in my boat! You're in a bigger, better boat...what makes you so sure that a waitlist is a no? I imagine that probably nearly everyone who will make Law Review applied to a secondary journal, which probably will create a lot of waitlist movement.

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:48 pm

annarborbound wrote:Which journal? How long is the waitlist? And how do you know these things?

I heard from a buddy that he got waitlisted by MJLR. Someone posting above said they got the waitlist for MTTLR. I only know of people who got accepted to MTTLR personally, so I was not sure if they did a waitlist or not. It seems reasonable to assume that all the secondaries would. It's the only sure way to avoid over- or under-enrolling given that they can't control who gets taken by MLR. I don't know if anyone can say how long the waitlists are, but I think one or two regulars in this thread are on journals. So they might have some ideas on that, if they feel like sharing.




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