Michigan 2012

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
06072010
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby 06072010 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:46 pm

All my grades are up. Not a bad year. Although he who shall not be named done me right and done me wrong. Curses!

Merriweather
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Merriweather » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:21 am

still missing 2 if you believe it.

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spencer26
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby spencer26 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:21 am

Another dumb question... (plus I was really curious to see what my avatar looked like)

Where can we find professor's old tests? I am not sure if this question has been asked yet, but seeing as how the thread is nearing the 90-page mark, I have chosen to risk looking foolish and just ask it again in order to avoid reading through the whole thing.

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Marko Ramius
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Marko Ramius » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:23 am

spencer26 wrote:Another dumb question... (plus I was really curious to see what my avatar looked like)

Where can we find professor's old tests? I am not sure if this question has been asked yet, but seeing as how the thread is nearing the 90-page mark, I have chosen to risk looking foolish and just ask it again in order to avoid reading through the whole thing.


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snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:12 am

spencer26 wrote:Where can we find professor's old tests? I am not sure if this question has been asked yet, but seeing as how the thread is nearing the 90-page mark, I have chosen to risk looking foolish and just ask it again in order to avoid reading through the whole thing.

Library website, under "Exams and Reserves." You can search either by professor or course. Not all of them post old exams, or they might only have a couple of them up. If you want more or can't find any for your prof, try looking at other profs who have taught the same course in recent years. Generally there is less difference between profs in the testing of a 1L subject than in the teaching, so working with other exams from one or two profs at the same school teaching the same course will still give you most of the benefit that you get from practice exams. It's not ideal, but it's a lot better than nothing, and at least will reflect the level of difficulty of questions that you can expect to see.

scarletmuse
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby scarletmuse » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:17 am

I'm still waiting for my last goddamn grade. Grr! Normally I don't care, but considering that I don't get to take the bar exam unless NY gets a certification from the school before June 15 guaranteeing that I graduated...yeah, I kind of want that last 'P'. Get it together, Neihoff!

awesomepossum
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby awesomepossum » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:50 am

I still need 2.

blargh.

dkitty520
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby dkitty520 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:52 pm

Quick question for anyone who lives in Woodbury--

The prices list a "reserved, lighted carport" parking space for $25 a month. Is that the only parking option? Is it possible to just park in the lots/street without paying an extra fee?

hoosier1508
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby hoosier1508 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:32 pm

dkitty520 wrote:Quick question for anyone who lives in Woodbury--

The prices list a "reserved, lighted carport" parking space for $25 a month. Is that the only parking option? Is it possible to just park in the lots/street without paying an extra fee?


I don't live in Woodbury, but I think we can assume it's similar to just about every apartment complex around.

There are normal ordinary parking spaces and then you have carports and/or garages available for an extra fee.

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nicoz
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby nicoz » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:51 pm

Covered parking = not digging your car out of the snow in the winter. This is a pretty big plus for $25 (not to mention GUARANTEED parking spot).

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USC2009
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby USC2009 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:59 pm

Some more questions for current students -

Is each semester's tuition payment done individually, or do you pay everything in the fall?

How manageable is life without a car? Obviously groceries and stuff would be a concern, but outside of daily tasks, how is it? (City person, what can I say) Tire chains versus snow tires with studs?

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:37 pm

USC2009 wrote:Is each semester's tuition payment done individually, or do you pay everything in the fall?

You have to pay each semester by a certain date before classes start for that semester. If you're taking loans then it's all done automatically, and they just direct deposit the excess into your checking account.

USC2009 wrote:Tire chains versus snow tires with studs?

You will not need either of these, unless you're dealing with a long commute from somewhere out in the sticks.

You didn't ask, but others might -- along the same lines, the most winter gear you need, if you don't own it already, are: (1) a 3-in-1 coat with a zip-out liner; (2) any old wool stocking cap; (3) thinsulate or wool gloves; (4) water resistant, thick soled boots; (4) wool socks; and (5) a wooly scarf of some sort, if you're into those. You can get by with one of those heavy wool peacoat style things, if you like those better than the outdoorsy wear. Wind / water resistant outside material is good for the jacket and gloves. Maybe an umbrella if you want. None of this needs to be arctic expedition weight or ski slope type gear. As long as you have a layer or two, wool for your head and extremities, and something to keep the wind and rain off when you have to be out in it, you will be fine.

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USC2009
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby USC2009 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:26 pm

snotrocket wrote:
USC2009 wrote:Is each semester's tuition payment done individually, or do you pay everything in the fall?

You have to pay each semester by a certain date before classes start for that semester. If you're taking loans then it's all done automatically, and they just direct deposit the excess into your checking account.

USC2009 wrote:Tire chains versus snow tires with studs?

You will not need either of these, unless you're dealing with a long commute from somewhere out in the sticks.

You didn't ask, but others might -- along the same lines, the most winter gear you need, if you don't own it already, are: (1) a 3-in-1 coat with a zip-out liner; (2) any old wool stocking cap; (3) thinsulate or wool gloves; (4) water resistant, thick soled boots; (4) wool socks; and (5) a wooly scarf of some sort, if you're into those. You can get by with one of those heavy wool peacoat style things, if you like those better than the outdoorsy wear. Wind / water resistant outside material is good for the jacket and gloves. Maybe an umbrella if you want. None of this needs to be arctic expedition weight or ski slope type gear. As long as you have a layer or two, wool for your head and extremities, and something to keep the wind and rain off when you have to be out in it, you will be fine.


Awesome! Thanks. I've been looking into peacoats and 3-in-1 jackets lately, but I don't really like buying stuff online and California isn't big on heavywear.

When you say I won't need either of the tires - do you mean I won't need snow tires at all, or just not the ones with studs in them?

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nicoz
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby nicoz » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:41 pm

No snow tires. MI has bad winters every year the municipalities are quite prepared.

All the salt really sucks though...

BigBlockofCheeseDay
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby BigBlockofCheeseDay » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:55 pm

dkitty520 wrote:Quick question for anyone who lives in Woodbury--

The prices list a "reserved, lighted carport" parking space for $25 a month. Is that the only parking option? Is it possible to just park in the lots/street without paying an extra fee?


+1

nicoz wrote:Covered parking = not digging your car out of the snow in the winter. This is a pretty big plus for $25 (not to mention GUARANTEED parking spot).


is the snow that bad? i mean, i know street parking near campus is tough because the plows box you in (at least, it was like that at my undergrad) but it looked like there were parking lots scattered around woodbury, and i can't imagine it would be that tough to get in and out. anyone know for sure?

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nicoz
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby nicoz » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:12 pm

I'm talking about scraping windshield, lights etc. when it snows. It does snow a lot in MI. I know this for sure. I wouldn't spend $150 a month for covered parking but $25 seems rather reasonable. If this is your biggest concern with moving/law school, then you're doing just fine.

BigBlockofCheeseDay
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby BigBlockofCheeseDay » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:53 pm

Yeah its by no means an urgent thing. i think i'd be more inclined to get the covered pass if i was going to drive to campus every day, or if i knew parking around there was going to be a hassle.

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joyce615
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby joyce615 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:08 pm

take the covered parking spot. trust me, you'll be glad for it.

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USC2009
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby USC2009 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:41 am

Wow. I just looked at the UofM '11 thread and it made it to 32 pages. We're at 89 and we just got to June... :shock:

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Marko Ramius
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Marko Ramius » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:50 am

Helo! I am from Kaunas Lithuania and I concider this school Michigan. I have questions for you if you kind help me. Is this school Ann Arbor? I herd it ranking 12 in your country, the Cooley-Ann Arbor at Michigan University. This is very very good. Is this truth? Are you the Tom Cooley-Ann Arbor at Michigan University? I will take TOEFL and LSAT and sent my aplications to your school. Can you put a picture? Please thank you!

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lilybbloom
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby lilybbloom » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:23 am

Marko Ramius wrote:Helo! I am from Kaunas Lithuania and I concider this school Michigan. I have questions for you if you kind help me. Is this school Ann Arbor? I herd it ranking 12 in your country, the Cooley-Ann Arbor at Michigan University. This is very very good. Is this truth? Are you the Tom Cooley-Ann Arbor at Michigan University? I will take TOEFL and LSAT and sent my aplications to your school. Can you put a picture? Please thank you!


ROFL

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Nietzsche
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby Nietzsche » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:46 am

If the normal semester is as great as the summer start option, you guys are going to love it....

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tl
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby tl » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:32 am

snotrocket wrote:
tl wrote:I seriously doubt this. If the median GPA is 3.34 at graduation, and that's including all those classes that are not graded on a curve, there's no way the 1L GPA median is a 3.3 I think it's more of a 3.2 if not lower.

Anything is possible, but the grad GPA cutoffs are what the school sends out as an FYI to employers to "put our grades in context." Also keep in mind that any effect of "softer grading" upper class small courses could be largely offset by the fact that a significant number of people (probably 50-80% of those that come out of OCI with jobs that they want) will put forth the minimum work they can get by on during 2L and 3L. It's just as likely that the overall distribution of cumulative GPA moves very little or even declines a bit relative to 1L as it is that the median moves up significantly. It's not like everyone can just take 14 credits of seminars every semester, and when you factor in the credit hours and class size, the bulk of upper class credits are still curved.


Those grad GPA cutoffs were not sent to employees as an FYI. They were made available for judges, so that they would be able to judge candidates for clerkships. Every 3L that I've talked to at Michigan about this says that they're GPA went up at least .1 and sometimes a lot more. Hell, my suite mate from last year's GPA went up by .2 and he wasn't even trying to game his GPA. And just because you put in minimum work doesn't mean that you get lower grades. As you said, if a "significant amount" of people put in little work then the entire curve gets shifted down toward their level of work (and that's for the classes that are actually curved). You have to remember there are tons of classes that are not even curved at all. So it doesn't matter HOW hard you work. Everybody gets a B+ or better. And then factor in the number of people that take the "hard" classes (classes that are actually curved like 1L classes) pass/fail, and I think it's safe to assume that the large majority (90%+) raise their GPA at least by a .1-.15 by the time they graduation. Taking all those factors into consideration, I don't see how you can sit and argue that it's more likely that the median GPA only goes up by .04 rather a .1 - .15 or so of a point. Especially when it's sooooooooooo easy to game your GPA.

Look at this document: "http://www.law.umich.edu/currentstudents/registration/Documents/2008F%20all%20combined.docx"

For Fall 2008, the median GPA for 1Ls classes was 3.23. First, I don't see how then the median GPA for individuals will be a 3.3 when the exact same data is used (it's just grouped differently). However, I'm not an expert at statistics, so I'll assume that that can happen. Upperclass Courses median GPA was a 3.46. Seminar median GPA was a 3.67. There are way more upperclass courses and seminars than 1L courses. When you apply that difference over 4 semesters, is it even statistically possible for the median GPA to only go up .04?

safari
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby safari » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:23 pm

USC2009 wrote:
Merriweather wrote:
USC2009 wrote:Current students - how much do you think you spend monthly on gas, electricity, and water? I know that this will differ depending on the time of year, but I'm just looking for a rough estimate.


water is included almost everywhere

my electric got as high as 150 (january. heat is electric.) but during the early autumn it was as low as 40

gas included.


Okay, thanks. I believe on Woodbury's forms it mentions that we would have to pay water.


Any current students in Woodbury have an estimated utility cost? Are the Woodbury apts fairly well insulated for the winter?

snotrocket
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Re: Michigan 2012

Postby snotrocket » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:27 pm

tl wrote:For Fall 2008, the median GPA for 1Ls classes was 3.23. First, I don't see how then the median GPA for individuals will be a 3.3 when the exact same data is used (it's just grouped differently). However, I'm not an expert at statistics, so I'll assume that that can happen. Upperclass Courses median GPA was a 3.46. Seminar median GPA was a 3.67. There are way more upperclass courses and seminars than 1L courses. When you apply that difference over 4 semesters, is it even statistically possible for the median GPA to only go up .04?

You have to keep in mind the difference between mean and median. The grading guidelines and the report you linked deal with the target and actual means and do not consider the per class or cumulative medians. We can just take the grading guidelines and construct a distribution of grades using them to see why this matters.

Figure that the class has 100 students and the professor grades precisely according to the specified curve (see table below). The arithmetic mean for the class will be 3.19 -- right on target. But the median is the grade that falls in the middle of the list of all grades assigned, sorted from highest to lowest. Because we have an even number of grades here, the median is the average of the two grades that straddle the exact center -- positions 50 and 51. Both grades in those slots are B+, so the median is 3.30. Another measure of curve shape is the mode, or the value that occurs most often. Here the mode is also 3.30/B+ (30 out of 100 people receive this grade). This situation -- where the median and mode both fall higher than the mean -- is the definition of a curve that is skewed to the left (meaning it has a fat upper end and a long skinny left tail). This is a typical shape -- by design -- for grading curves at all top schools.

So, if we had 100 students and they all took one class graded according to the specified curve, it's not only statistically possible, it's statistically inevitable that the mean will wind up at 3.19 and the median at 3.30. Classes vary somewhat, and the mean of means (reported in the document you linked above) lands closer to the high limit than the target. But even if all classes go high on the curve, this will not move the median much, if at all. And even though not all people will get the same grade in all classes, the curve in each class is a zero-sum game, so anyone doing better in one class will correspond with someone else doing worse. Overall, the distribution of cumulative GPAs for the entire class of ~360 people will fall right in line with the target curve followed by the individual classes, so the overall distribution will have the same character noted above -- fat upper end and long, skinny left tail, with a median and mode noticeably higher than the mean.

As far as the increases between 1L and upper class GPAs go, again you have to keep in mind the difference between mean and median. A big change in per class or cumulative means might move the median only slightly or not at all. This is in fact one of the reasons for using these measures of central tendency together -- the median is generally more stable and less responsive to outliers and changes in the shape of the distribution compared with the mean. Even if we assume a far softer curve, say with 20% A+/A, 25% A-, 40% B+, 15% B, and nothing lower, the mean will shift dramatically to 3.50, but the median will still be 3.30/B+ just like before. So a modest upward shift of 3.30 to 3.34 seems right in line with what we would expect, given that the median shifts far less than the mean, and that, as noted above, the bulk of credit hours (not classes, but total credits taken) still have to fall in according to the grading guidelines.

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Last edited by snotrocket on Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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