GULC '12

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
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gilchristh
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Re: GULC '12

Postby gilchristh » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:20 pm

rayiner wrote:
gilchristh wrote:Yeah, I agree that Mark is generally very helpful, but I think I understand where wtx was coming from. It's hard to NOT get defensive when GULC seems to get disproportionately bashed on here. We've already made our decision, and we're most likely not going into it blindfolded (considering we're on here doing our "homework"), so listening to all the negative crap all the time gets frustrating.

With that said, wtx, Mark is generally a very helpful guy. He means well.


FWIW, the GULC bashing is based on people not really understanding the available employment stats. People at Cornell, etc, shouldn't really be breathing easy in this economy either.

Agreed (on both counts), but there are about a million assumptions needed to justify the bashing; some of them are more reasonable, while others simply aren't. Among them:
1) GULC students don't understand the stats (questionable at best);
2) everyone wants Biglaw (I would say this is considerably less likely at GULC than at many other T-14s, with GULC's PI focus);
3) people who are going to other T-14s are much safer (as you mentioned);
4) people are going to law school with no job-seeking skills of their own (again, I think this is less likely at GULC and NU, with their common non-trad bent); and
5) we're focusing exclusively on percent of the class, forgetting that there is an astronomically higher NUMBER of people in the top 1/3 at GULC than there is at, say, Cornell or Duke (more bodies in top 1/3 means more people getting jobs... although the flip side is more bodies also OUTSIDE the top 1/3 at greater risk).

These are all questionable to varying degrees (some more solid, some less), and there are plenty more I could list. I find all the bashing to be incredibly presumptuous.

wtx
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Re: GULC '12

Postby wtx » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:51 pm

rayiner wrote:If you think hearing the truth about it from current students is a bad thing, you're an utter moron. If you had any sense you'd thank him for providing this sort of info so you can make better decisions.

I'm attending one of DNCG, and while they're great schools, the economy is unprecedentedly bad. Guys like Mark are a valuable resource for those of us who aren't interested in burying our heads in the sand.


As I stated originally, I do appreciate that Mark was giving us his honest opinion. Of course I realize that advice from current students is valuable. I also realize I may have been a little overly defensive, and I apologized to Mark for that. However, I stand by my original point: I don't see the negativity as constructive. This forum is for folks who have already decided to go to GULC. I don't see that it does us any good to go into the school year with the idea that our OCS won't help us and if we don't finish above the median we're screwed. Rather, I think we should focus on the fact that we're going to a great school and we're going to be in better shape than the thousands of law students who are going to non T14's or even TTT's...not to mention the fact that the economy, while extra shitty at this point, is completely out of our control. Maybe I'm naive, or maybe it's just the eternal optimist in me, but that's the attitude I'm going to take.

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rayiner
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Re: GULC '12

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:04 pm

wtx wrote:
rayiner wrote:If you think hearing the truth about it from current students is a bad thing, you're an utter moron. If you had any sense you'd thank him for providing this sort of info so you can make better decisions.

I'm attending one of DNCG, and while they're great schools, the economy is unprecedentedly bad. Guys like Mark are a valuable resource for those of us who aren't interested in burying our heads in the sand.


As I stated originally, I do appreciate that Mark was giving us his honest opinion. Of course I realize that advice from current students is valuable. I also realize I may have been a little overly defensive, and I apologized to Mark for that. However, I stand by my original point: I don't see the negativity as constructive.


The negativity is only not constructive if you posit that nobody will change their behavior as a result of having better information. This is, of course silly. People who know the grim reality of the economy will work harder, network more, diversify their job search efforts, etc. Of course everyone says they would do all of those things anyway, but the fact of the matter is that they won't. If you're under the impression that the old rules are in place and top 2/3 gets biglaw with no trouble through OCI, then you're simply not going to act the same way as you would if you knew that in this economy being outside the top 1/3 could be a scary place to be.

Without this recession, I wouldn't have dreamt of starting my networking this past spring. I wouldn't have bothered trying to make connections at a small patent boutique here in northern VA, because when everybody gets biglaw anyway, what's the point? Well, if the economy does turn out to be that bad for our OCI, and that small boutique connection ends up saving my ass, you can bet I'm going to be thankful that people like Mark were "spreading their negativity".

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: GULC '12

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:11 pm

anywho......

Has anyone else tried to log into the law library database, GULLiver? I can't as of yet - it says my NetID isn't authorized or something like that.

Anyone been able to?

wtx
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Re: GULC '12

Postby wtx » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:47 pm

rayiner wrote:
wtx wrote:
rayiner wrote:If you think hearing the truth about it from current students is a bad thing, you're an utter moron. If you had any sense you'd thank him for providing this sort of info so you can make better decisions.

I'm attending one of DNCG, and while they're great schools, the economy is unprecedentedly bad. Guys like Mark are a valuable resource for those of us who aren't interested in burying our heads in the sand.


As I stated originally, I do appreciate that Mark was giving us his honest opinion. Of course I realize that advice from current students is valuable. I also realize I may have been a little overly defensive, and I apologized to Mark for that. However, I stand by my original point: I don't see the negativity as constructive.


The negativity is only not constructive if you posit that nobody will change their behavior as a result of having better information. This is, of course silly. People who know the grim reality of the economy will work harder, network more, diversify their job search efforts, etc. Of course everyone says they would do all of those things anyway, but the fact of the matter is that they won't. If you're under the impression that the old rules are in place and top 2/3 gets biglaw with no trouble through OCI, then you're simply not going to act the same way as you would if you knew that in this economy being outside the top 1/3 could be a scary place to be.

Without this recession, I wouldn't have dreamt of starting my networking this past spring. I wouldn't have bothered trying to make connections at a small patent boutique here in northern VA, because when everybody gets biglaw anyway, what's the point? Well, if the economy does turn out to be that bad for our OCI, and that small boutique connection ends up saving my ass, you can bet I'm going to be thankful that people like Mark were "spreading their negativity".


Ok...if that boutique saves your ass then you'll be an example of what I was saying in the first place: that there are other ways to be successful than finishing above some predetermined GPA cutoff. That should allow you to "breathe easy" at Northwestern (which is where you're going, right?). I'm actually not sure what you're even doing in this forum...you decided not to go to GULC. In fact, I'm pretty sure your name was mentioned a few pages back as being someone who's known for bashing GULC. So do you just browse TLS looking for arguments and calling ppl names, or what? I apologized to Mark for the tone of my post, reiterated my point (which we'll just have to agree to disagree on), and moved on....and you, the guy who's not even going to our school, are the only one who continues to respond. This argument is tired, and I'm sure everyone is tired of reading it, so I'm done. If you want to find another one, intrude on someone else's forum. Maybe give Cornell a try?

To the poster above, I also have not been able to login to certain pages on the website...I get the same response. Anyone know what's up with this?

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rayiner
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Re: GULC '12

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:29 pm

wtx wrote:Ok...if that boutique saves your ass then you'll be an example of what I was saying in the first place: that there are other ways to be successful than finishing above some predetermined GPA cutoff.


I'm not arguing with you on this point. What I'm saying is that:

a) There is a GPA cut-off after which an OCI job doesn't fall on your lap;
b) It behooves you to have people like Mark tell you what that is.

The fact of the matter is that a lot of folks in the bottom half in this economy will be in for a rude awakening when they realize that the T14 doesn't guarantee you biglaw anymore.

That should allow you to "breathe easy" at Northwestern (which is where you're going, right?). I'm actually not sure what you're even doing in this forum...you decided not to go to GULC. In fact, I'm pretty sure your name was mentioned a few pages back as being someone who's known for bashing GULC.


I'm responding in this thread because I was strongly considering GULC and know people who are going there. I did decide not to go to GULC, but that was due to personal factors and taste, not any belief on my part that NU students will be in much better shape ITE than GULC students. As for my bashing GULC, I find that claim pretty laughable, considering that I just posted in this thread that I find most of the GULC bashing misinformed, and have at numerous times posted positive information about GULC's employment statistics.

Jadcia
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Re: GULC '12

Postby Jadcia » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:32 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:anywho......

Has anyone else tried to log into the law library database, GULLiver? I can't as of yet - it says my NetID isn't authorized or something like that.

Anyone been able to?


I have been able to log in, but I had to to contact the library to get access.

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Splitt3r
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Re: GULC '12

Postby Splitt3r » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:38 am

rayiner wrote:
That should allow you to "breathe easy" at Northwestern (which is where you're going, right?). I'm actually not sure what you're even doing in this forum...you decided not to go to GULC. In fact, I'm pretty sure your name was mentioned a few pages back as being someone who's known for bashing GULC.


I'm responding in this thread because I was strongly considering GULC and know people who are going there. I did decide not to go to GULC, but that was due to personal factors and taste, not any belief on my part that NU students will be in much better shape ITE than GULC students. As for my bashing GULC, I find that claim pretty laughable, considering that I just posted in this thread that I find most of the GULC bashing misinformed, and have at numerous times posted positive information about GULC's employment statistics.


What probably got you thinking that rayiner was bashing on GULC is that he's pretty outspoken about his pessimism for finding a biglaw job outside of top third or so in the entire DNCG bracket.

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Splitt3r
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Re: GULC '12

Postby Splitt3r » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:36 am

Does anyone know where I can buy one of those "hoya lawya" t-shirts online? Also, is there a way to figure out what books our profs are going to be using so we can go ahead and buy them?

wtx
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Re: GULC '12

Postby wtx » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:57 am

Splitt3r wrote:
rayiner wrote:
That should allow you to "breathe easy" at Northwestern (which is where you're going, right?). I'm actually not sure what you're even doing in this forum...you decided not to go to GULC. In fact, I'm pretty sure your name was mentioned a few pages back as being someone who's known for bashing GULC.


I'm responding in this thread because I was strongly considering GULC and know people who are going there. I did decide not to go to GULC, but that was due to personal factors and taste, not any belief on my part that NU students will be in much better shape ITE than GULC students. As for my bashing GULC, I find that claim pretty laughable, considering that I just posted in this thread that I find most of the GULC bashing misinformed, and have at numerous times posted positive information about GULC's employment statistics.


What probably got you thinking that rayiner was bashing on GULC is that he's pretty outspoken about his pessimism for finding a biglaw job outside of top third or so in the entire DNCG bracket.


I actually wasn't claiming that he bashes GULC...I was pointing out that someone else made the claim earlier in this thread. I'm not surprised to hear that he's equally pessimistic about the prospects from our peer schools though...he seems to enjoy the role of negative nancy.

As for the hoya lawya shirt, I'm not sure you can get them online. The selection available through the GULC bookstore online is pretty limited. My guess is that most things can only be purchased in the store?

AdCommie
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Re: GULC '12

Postby AdCommie » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:05 am

wtx wrote:
Splitt3r wrote:
rayiner wrote:
That should allow you to "breathe easy" at Northwestern (which is where you're going, right?). I'm actually not sure what you're even doing in this forum...you decided not to go to GULC. In fact, I'm pretty sure your name was mentioned a few pages back as being someone who's known for bashing GULC.


I'm responding in this thread because I was strongly considering GULC and know people who are going there. I did decide not to go to GULC, but that was due to personal factors and taste, not any belief on my part that NU students will be in much better shape ITE than GULC students. As for my bashing GULC, I find that claim pretty laughable, considering that I just posted in this thread that I find most of the GULC bashing misinformed, and have at numerous times posted positive information about GULC's employment statistics.


What probably got you thinking that rayiner was bashing on GULC is that he's pretty outspoken about his pessimism for finding a biglaw job outside of top third or so in the entire DNCG bracket.


I actually wasn't claiming that he bashes GULC...I was pointing out that someone else made the claim earlier in this thread. I'm not surprised to hear that he's equally pessimistic about the prospects from our peer schools though...he seems to enjoy the role of negative nancy.

As for the hoya lawya shirt, I'm not sure you can get them online. The selection available through the GULC bookstore online is pretty limited. My guess is that most things can only be purchased in the store?


None of this puts me at ease for the 1L and 2L job hunt. Not to mention Civ Pro with Schrag.

Anywho, to the people who got their bills: I noticed that my refund amount is 1500. Is this my living expense wallet for the entire semester? If that's the case then damn, fml. I wouldn't mind living off of 15 bucks a day, but its going to be much lower after books. Looks like I'll have to tap into whatever miniscule savings I have left.

Edit: Am I going to be laughed at if I call up finaid and beg for whatever extra cash they can throw my way? I don't mean to sound greedy, I know plenty of people are in similar or worse situations but even a five figure debt is nothing to sneeze at...

GreenHeels
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Re: GULC '12

Postby GreenHeels » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:36 am

AdCommie wrote:Anywho, to the people who got their bills: I noticed that my refund amount is 1500. Is this my living expense wallet for the entire semester? If that's the case then damn, fml. I wouldn't mind living off of 15 bucks a day, but its going to be much lower after books. Looks like I'll have to tap into whatever miniscule savings I have left.


I have similar concerns after seeing the tuition statement that indicates a refund far lower than what I had been anticipating. I can only assume that, as a late admit who has not yet received a formal award letter, this figure represents only what the standard? amount of federal aid is combined with the perceived minimum level of GRAD Plus added on. There was no inclusion of any work study, which I had been told would be offered as well. I sent a request for clarification today and will post what I hear back.

Further research indicated, however, that GRAD Plus loans should be available up to the posted 'cost of attendance' listed by the school. At GULC (66k), this is 11k more than the initial figures I have in front of me. All I know is I need that gap to close.

GreenHeels
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Re: GULC '12

Postby GreenHeels » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:37 am

I also noticed you are concerned about a five figure debt.

You are correct in this not being the correct time or place to whine about that.

:D

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jschuyler
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Re: GULC '12

Postby jschuyler » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:05 pm

I was surprised that the entire $1700 for this year's health insurance was taken out in the fall semester bill. I had thought they'd split the charge into the fall and spring semesters, thus giving us an extra $850 this fall. Although it will be nice to feel $1700 richer in the spring.

Jadcia
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Re: GULC '12

Postby Jadcia » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:10 pm

So does this mean most people's bills have already been paid? When are refunds processed?

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jschuyler
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Re: GULC '12

Postby jschuyler » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:16 pm

Jadcia wrote:So does this mean most people's bills have already been paid? When are refunds processed?


I'm pretty sure we don't get our refunds until late August at the earliest.

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gilchristh
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Re: GULC '12

Postby gilchristh » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:44 pm

Splitt3r wrote:Does anyone know where I can buy one of those "hoya lawya" t-shirts online?
I'd bet that if you called the Admissions office and told 'em you heard there were some free "Hoya Lawya Class of 2012" shirts given away at the ASD/Open House and that you'd love to know how you could get one of those, they'd probably arrange to either send you one or have it waiting for you to pick up (assuming they still have a few somewhere). The cool thing is that they actually have our class year on 'em, so while I'd guess that a "Hoya Lawya" shirt might pop up in the bookstore in the not-so-distant future, don't you still want one of the freebees with our year on it?

wtx wrote:The selection available through the GULC bookstore online is pretty limited. My guess is that most things can only be purchased in the store?
Oh yeah. The online stuff is very limited. The store carries MUCH more, and I'm sure they'll stock up on loads of cute/fun stuff for Orientation.

AdCommie wrote:Anywho, to the people who got their bills: I noticed that my refund amount is 1500. Is this my living expense wallet for the entire semester? If that's the case then damn, fml. I wouldn't mind living off of 15 bucks a day, but its going to be much lower after books. Looks like I'll have to tap into whatever miniscule savings I have left.
My estimated refund is much larger, and it's definitely for the whole semester... that should be your whole semester listed unless you're waiting for GradPLUS approval or work-study.

GreenHeels wrote:I have similar concerns after seeing the tuition statement that indicates a refund far lower than what I had been anticipating. I can only assume that, as a late admit who has not yet received a formal award letter, this figure represents only what the standard? amount of federal aid is combined with the perceived minimum level of GRAD Plus added on. There was no inclusion of any work study, which I had been told would be offered as well. I sent a request for clarification today and will post what I hear back.

Further research indicated, however, that GRAD Plus loans should be available up to the posted 'cost of attendance' listed by the school. At GULC (66k), this is 11k more than the initial figures I have in front of me. All I know is I need that gap to close.
This is a half-guess, but I think that work-study is dispersed like a paycheck (every two weeks or so)... at least that's what I think I recall hearing. I think it works just like a job... but definitely verify.

HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS: For any of you who are super low on funding but are also standardized test geeks, I might be able to get you hooked up with some part-time work (from home, at your convenience, work when you want) that pays $20/hr. If you're interested, shoot me a PM and I'll give you the info.

Jadcia wrote:So does this mean most people's bills have already been paid? When are refunds processed?
Nah, they're listed as "estimated" payments right now. I heard that the money becomes available to the school 10 days before the start of classes (and your refund would then be processes once that happens), but again, that info could use some verification and I don't know much lag time to expect between when the school gets our funds and we get our refunds. You can definitely speed up the process by logging in to MyAccess and entering your direct deposit info, though.

drew
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Re: GULC '12

Postby drew » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:30 pm

My stafford/GradPLUS loans don't appear to be showing up. I went with a local SC lender. Should I be worried at this point, or does anyone else still have a massive balance?

GreenHeels
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Re: GULC '12

Postby GreenHeels » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:13 pm

gilchristh wrote:I heard that the money becomes available to the school 10 days before the start of classes (and your refund would then be processes once that happens)


This is my understanding as well from the Financial Aid website.

wtx
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Re: GULC '12

Postby wtx » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:43 pm

gilchristh wrote:This is a half-guess, but I think that work-study is dispersed like a paycheck (every two weeks or so)... at least that's what I think I recall hearing. I think it works just like a job... but definitely verify.


I checked into this last week. Here's the email:

When you arrive on-campus you can apply for Federal Work-Study ("FWS") jobs. Postings are listed in an internal newsletter. The FWS funds are paid bi-weekly as your earn it from your employer.

Best,

Brad Russo
Assistant Director of Financial Aid
Georgetown University Law Center

GreenHeels
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Re: GULC '12

Postby GreenHeels » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:46 pm

wtx wrote:
gilchristh wrote:This is a half-guess, but I think that work-study is dispersed like a paycheck (every two weeks or so)... at least that's what I think I recall hearing. I think it works just like a job... but definitely verify.


I checked into this last week. Here's the email:

When you arrive on-campus you can apply for Federal Work-Study ("FWS") jobs. Postings are listed in an internal newsletter. The FWS funds are paid bi-weekly as your earn it from your employer.

Best,

Brad Russo
Assistant Director of Financial Aid
Georgetown University Law Center


That's interesting, as work study was built into awards from other schools. It seems the effect of this might be that all those who want a job might not get one? Which is a rather tenuous position to be in when trying to work out a budget to include, rent, utilities, etc. Not sure I like that very much.

GreenHeels
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Re: GULC '12

Postby GreenHeels » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:49 pm

To follow up my last: from GULC Financial Aid website:

"FWS is part of your overall financial aid award and the amount you're eligible to earn through the program is designed to contribute to your academic expenses."

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/aidtypes/

Just wondering if perhaps Mr. Russo was indicating that th TYPE of job will be up for application on arrival but that if you are to receive one, you should be notified earlier as part of a financial aid award?

Confusing.

GreenHeels
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Re: GULC '12

Postby GreenHeels » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:52 pm

Reading further down the page, it appears eligibility is determined over the summer with the receipt of a "Work Study Authorization" form that "serves as documentation for potential employers that you can be paid through FWS dollars. Hiring of first year students does not begin until the first week of orientation, so everyone can have a fair shot at the available jobs."

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gilchristh
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Re: GULC '12

Postby gilchristh » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:32 pm

I just got my actual tuition bill via snail mail, and regarding the refunds, I found this hidden gem on the purple paper:
Financial Aid Newsletter for Incoming Law Students wrote:Refund Requests, Direct Deposits
If your loans and other aid exceed your tuition bill, you will be eligible to request a refund. You will first have to set up your refund profile online through MyAccess under Student Account Services. Once you have established your bank account information, and your financial aid has been disbursed to your student account, you can then request a refund. Complete information about Refunds is available at --LinkRemoved--.
So it looks like we have to request 'em online once our funds are actually disbursed (rather than just "expected.")

One another interesting thing I caught in the tuition snail mail packet about the health plan:
Health Plan letter from Mitchell C. Bailin wrote:The Premier Plan is one option that will satisfy the University's health insurance requirement. You will be enrolled in this plan unless you decline enrollment by September 15, 2009, but accepting early through "My Account" will enable your name to be activated by the insurance company early in the Open Enrollment Period. If you have other coverage that meets the University's requirements you may also decline the Premier Plan through "My Account". "My Account" can be accessed through the Student Health Insurance web site at http://studentaffairs.georgetown.edu/insurance.

And finally, one last thing I thought it might be reminder-worthy: in case you haven't already done so, don't forget to complete your "Entrance Interview" for loans. Just did mine today.

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Splitt3r
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Re: GULC '12

Postby Splitt3r » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:05 pm

gilchristh wrote:
Splitt3r wrote:Does anyone know where I can buy one of those "hoya lawya" t-shirts online?
I'd bet that if you called the Admissions office and told 'em you heard there were some free "Hoya Lawya Class of 2012" shirts given away at the ASD/Open House and that you'd love to know how you could get one of those, they'd probably arrange to either send you one or have it waiting for you to pick up (assuming they still have a few somewhere). The cool thing is that they actually have our class year on 'em, so while I'd guess that a "Hoya Lawya" shirt might pop up in the bookstore in the not-so-distant future, don't you still want one of the freebees with our year on it?


Oh good call, thanks for the idea. Too late today, but I'll give them a call tomorrow.




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