Engineering Applicants 2010

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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BriaTharen
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby BriaTharen » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:22 am

Lxw wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:The biggest tip I've heard is to memorize the table of contents. The test is very doable, it is just the amount of time it takes to find all the answers. If you know where you instantly need to go, then it makes it that much easier.

It's not so much memorization of the table of contents, its recognizing which chapter in the MPEP you know will contain the answer to the question.

eg...everything regarding proper rejections is in 2100 (patentability). if its an appeal, you go to the appeals chapter. very straight forward, actually


Sounds familiar. I'm mainly going by word of mouth. How much did you study for the patent bar? I am graduating in the summer (so taking one last class from June-July (Linear Signals & Systems)) plus working, so I'm trying to figure out whether or not I will have enough time to study to actually pass.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby MC Southstar » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:24 am

JessicaTiger wrote:
Lxw wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:The biggest tip I've heard is to memorize the table of contents. The test is very doable, it is just the amount of time it takes to find all the answers. If you know where you instantly need to go, then it makes it that much easier.

It's not so much memorization of the table of contents, its recognizing which chapter in the MPEP you know will contain the answer to the question.

eg...everything regarding proper rejections is in 2100 (patentability). if its an appeal, you go to the appeals chapter. very straight forward, actually


Sounds familiar. I'm mainly going by word of mouth. How much did you study for the patent bar? I am graduating in the summer (so taking one last class from June-July (Linear Signals & Systems)) plus working, so I'm trying to figure out whether or not I will have enough time to study to actually pass.


Sounds like a pretty tight squeeze. I'll only be working FT so I expect to have enough free time to study over the coming months. I'm not sure there is any penalty to not passing anyway, so maybe it's still worth a shot if you have one?

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BriaTharen
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby BriaTharen » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:26 am

shadowfrost000 wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:
Lxw wrote:
JessicaTiger wrote:The biggest tip I've heard is to memorize the table of contents. The test is very doable, it is just the amount of time it takes to find all the answers. If you know where you instantly need to go, then it makes it that much easier.

It's not so much memorization of the table of contents, its recognizing which chapter in the MPEP you know will contain the answer to the question.

eg...everything regarding proper rejections is in 2100 (patentability). if its an appeal, you go to the appeals chapter. very straight forward, actually


Sounds familiar. I'm mainly going by word of mouth. How much did you study for the patent bar? I am graduating in the summer (so taking one last class from June-July (Linear Signals & Systems)) plus working, so I'm trying to figure out whether or not I will have enough time to study to actually pass.


Sounds like a pretty tight squeeze. I'll only be working FT so I expect to have enough free time to study over the coming months. I'm not sure there is any penalty to not passing anyway, so maybe it's still worth a shot if you have one?


That would be my thought if it wasn't about $400 just to take the thing. Kind of a lot to throw away on a bad test score...

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MC Southstar
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby MC Southstar » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:31 am

JessicaTiger wrote:That would be my thought if it wasn't about $400 just to take the thing. Kind of a lot to throw away on a bad test score...


True, plus the cost of preparatory materials if you got them. I guess it really comes down to what you think you are capable of and whether or not you think it's that important.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:03 am

I just spent a week doing practice problems, but I also had a year of experience, so any recommendations I give are absolutely useless.

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englawyer
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby englawyer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:42 pm

any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?

09042014
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:46 pm

englawyer wrote:any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?


Does that type of thing happen? I'd try it if its an option.

jerjon2
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby jerjon2 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:23 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
englawyer wrote:any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?


Does that type of thing happen? I'd try it if its an option.


Are you talking about legal or engineering internships? When I ask about engineering internships (I'm finishing UG this semester) companies seem very annoyed. I've been contacted by a few companies that were interested in having me apply for full time positions but when I asked about available internships because I'm going straight to "grad school" their tone changes completely. An HR rep from xerox all but hung up on me...

09042014
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:25 pm

jerjon2 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
englawyer wrote:any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?


Does that type of thing happen? I'd try it if its an option.


Are you talking about legal or engineering internships? When I ask about engineering internships (I'm finishing UG this semester) companies seem very annoyed. I've been contacted by a few companies that were interested in having me apply for full time positions but when I asked about available internships because I'm going straight to "grad school" their tone changes completely. An HR rep from xerox all but hung up on me...


I was assuming legal, but englawyer may have meant engineering.

I can see why a company doesn't want to give internships to grad students.

jerjon2
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby jerjon2 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
jerjon2 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
englawyer wrote:any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?


Does that type of thing happen? I'd try it if its an option.


Are you talking about legal or engineering internships? When I ask about engineering internships (I'm finishing UG this semester) companies seem very annoyed. I've been contacted by a few companies that were interested in having me apply for full time positions but when I asked about available internships because I'm going straight to "grad school" their tone changes completely. An HR rep from xerox all but hung up on me...


I was assuming legal, but englawyer may have meant engineering.

I can see why a company doesn't want to give internships to grad students.


In that case, I had my SEO interview last week for their corporate law program and I think it went well. I would be really excited to get that sort of opportunity. I absolutely understand them not wanting to give me an internship but I figured it wouldn't hurt to try and I also can't see myself applying for full time just to quit. That's just way too disingenuous to me and I would be taking a full time job from someone who needs/wants it.

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englawyer
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby englawyer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:51 pm

i meant legal internships. i know engineering companies will NOT look upon grad school favorably, specifically law school. if you are going to engineering graduate school you can probably find something.

09042014
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:52 pm

englawyer wrote:i meant legal internships. i know engineering companies will NOT look upon grad school favorably, specifically law school. if you are going to engineering graduate school you can probably find something.


Have you done the patent bar yet?

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englawyer
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby englawyer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:53 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
englawyer wrote:any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?


Does that type of thing happen? I'd try it if its an option.


i have no idea to be honest. i am just in a weird spot where it would seem to be sketchy to pursue a full time engineering job. legal internship would be ideal, but i can also check out some engineering contract work/tutoring.

i have not done the patent bar yet. i will probably start studying soon

jerjon2
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby jerjon2 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:04 pm

englawyer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
englawyer wrote:any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?


Does that type of thing happen? I'd try it if its an option.


i have no idea to be honest. i am just in a weird spot where it would seem to be sketchy to pursue a full time engineering job. legal internship would be ideal, but i can also check out some engineering contract work/tutoring.

i have not done the patent bar yet. i will probably start studying soon


If I can't find anything substantial I was planning on studying for the patent bar and getting a part time job.

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ApexChaser
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby ApexChaser » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:24 pm

ME reporting in. :P

englawyer wrote:any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?


I'm mainly looking at non-legal/engineering/biz dev/motorsports related internships.

I don't see myself getting a big name internship in legal, and my biz law professor-also boalt guy and a founding partner of a small firm-told me to take other opportunities instead of small name firms. His thoughts were that the 0L internships only help if there is name recognition and you can network. Otherwise, everyone knows you're effectively the coffee/copy boy as your legal input is near non-existent so the "relevant" experience when applying to big firms for 1L is weak. He thought an interesting engineering internship dealing with design, manufacturing, and/or patents would be much stronger.

Shrugs, makes sense to me.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby BioEBear2010 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:45 pm

What does one need to do in order to take the patent bar? I should have some time this summer to study for the test, but I don't know how to go about taking it.

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englawyer
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby englawyer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:33 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:What does one need to do in order to take the patent bar? I should have some time this summer to study for the test, but I don't know how to go about taking it.


Warning: 0L that is just starting to get to know this process....


It is a standardized test given through computer. The first step is to apply to the US patent office, who will review your transcripts/credentials and then allow you to register to take the exam. Once you get permission, you have to take it within 30 days or something so usually you study first, then apply.

The actual test works something like this. there is this huge book of rules called the MPEP. The test gives you a situation, and you have to use the MPEP as a reference to come up with the right answer. It is multiple choice, and open book (in the sense you have access to the MPEP).

The test is timed, however...so you can't go in without practicing because you will not be able to look up/use the information properly. The prep is getting to know the MPEP and getting used to the questions asked on the exam. There are a number of websites etc. that will help you prep for it properly.

copy and paste description:

"The key to maximizing your study time is to focus on the material that will be tested. Knowing what will be tested the most heavily makes all the difference. There is way too much information in the MPEP to absorb it all (it's over 3,000 pages of material). For starters, chapters 600, 700 and 2100 of the MPEP are always hit the hardest."

now someone that actually knows what the hell they are talking about will answer your question.

tesoro
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby tesoro » Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:11 pm

englawyer, that's a decent rundown.

A good time to take the exam is when you can answer >50% of the practice questions without looking up the answers in the MPEP. You'll have barely enough time to look up 30% of the answers, and many questions are long, situational types that aren't intuitive to look up. A good rule of thumb is this:

1) You can confidently answer 50% of the questions
2) You can semi-confidently answer 20% of the questions with minimal use of the MPEP. These should be the long situational questions.
3) You can semi-confidently look up and answer 30% of the questions (typically shorter questions that are more direct/intuitive to look up) using the MPEP.

Also, don't try to read the MPEP and internalize it. Use summaries of each chapter (google around for them). Focus on chapters 700 and 2100 as these chapters will directly generate a huge amount of questions. Make sure you understand in and out all concepts with regard to 35 U.S.C. 101, 112, 102(a, b, e especially) and 103(a and "c exclusions" especially). Be familiar with priority dates for PCT and international applications.

Good luck.

edit: the above numbered advice is given because you only need to answer 70% of the questions correctly. Interestingly, most people who fail the exam do so by missing between 1-5 questions below the pass mark. semi-confident implies that you should hit 50% of those questions right, and ultimately score a 75%. On a bad day, if you're practicing at 75%, you should be able to squeak past 70%.

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zreinhar
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby zreinhar » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:41 pm

ApexChaser wrote:ME reporting in. :P

englawyer wrote:any engineers seeking 0L internships before law school? any luck? tips?


I'm mainly looking at non-legal/engineering/biz dev/motorsports related internships.

I don't see myself getting a big name internship in legal, and my biz law professor-also boalt guy and a founding partner of a small firm-told me to take other opportunities instead of small name firms. His thoughts were that the 0L internships only help if there is name recognition and you can network. Otherwise, everyone knows you're effectively the coffee/copy boy as your legal input is near non-existent so the "relevant" experience when applying to big firms for 1L is weak. He thought an interesting engineering internship dealing with design, manufacturing, and/or patents would be much stronger.

Shrugs, makes sense to me.


I was the recepient of an intellectual property intersnhip, albeit unpaid. (they typically are, unless you're really lucky) Pretty much, I just sent out a mass email to all local firms with IP groups, or IP boutique firms (sent the email to people, not a generic resumes@lawfirm.com address) pretty much tell them your situation, you plan to take the patent bar, etc. I got 4 responses from 14 firms, and only 1 offer, so the odds arent in your favor, but it is possible, go to intelproplaw.com, theres alot of good info there... my handle is msee there

r6_philly
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby r6_philly » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:37 pm

ApexChaser wrote:ME reporting in. :P

I'm mainly looking at non-legal/engineering/biz dev/motorsports related internships.



What's your motorsports background if you don't mind me asking?

silly101
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby silly101 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:42 pm

ChE here

i was wondering if people could post their stats... GPA/LSAT
i feel like some engineers (like me) have lower GPAs than those listed for schools' 25-75th. how can i see where my realistic options are?

09042014
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:58 pm

silly101 wrote:ChE here

i was wondering if people could post their stats... GPA/LSAT
i feel like some engineers (like me) have lower GPAs than those listed for schools' 25-75th. how can i see where my realistic options are?


2.8/176 BSEE UIUC 08, Northwestern 2013.
Last edited by 09042014 on Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby BioEBear2010 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 pm

silly101 wrote:ChE here

i was wondering if people could post their stats... GPA/LSAT
i feel like some engineers (like me) have lower GPAs than those listed for schools' 25-75th. how can i see where my realistic options are?

3.8/172 B.S. bioengineering, still undecided between Yale and Stanford.
Last edited by BioEBear2010 on Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tesoro
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby tesoro » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:41 pm

silly101 wrote:ChE here

i was wondering if people could post their stats... GPA/LSAT
i feel like some engineers (like me) have lower GPAs than those listed for schools' 25-75th. how can i see where my realistic options are?


165/3.5, BSEE, Fordham 2014 (evening class).

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ApexChaser
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby ApexChaser » Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:35 pm

r6_philly wrote:
ApexChaser wrote:ME reporting in. :P

I'm mainly looking at non-legal/engineering/biz dev/motorsports related internships.



What's your motorsports background if you don't mind me asking?


It's probably not what you're thinking; I was an engineering intern at a pro race engine shop and played around with data acquisition on a university formula team.

What makes you ask? I'm guessing you have a motorsports interest or background, based on the R6. Casual trackday-er with a CBR here.




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