Engineering Applicants 2010

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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DOOM
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Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby DOOM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:15 pm

Hey all,

Seems like there are quite a few active members of the TLS forums with engineering backgrounds/an interest in IP.

I think it would be fun to have a home on these forums to discuss our cycles, career plans, exciting news/issues in IP, etc. I know the number of us in law schools in recent years is increasing and its debatable whether the admissions process is any different for us, but I think its pretty fair to say that our career goals and interests can be unique among law students.

If only for the benefit of future applicants, I think it would be good to have a record of how our cycles are going, so we could start there.

Not to exclude other hard sciences majors or non-science majors, everyone please feel free to join in the conversation.

Best of luck with everyone's cycle and we'll see how successful this thread is...
Last edited by DOOM on Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby BriaTharen » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:22 pm

Sounds like fun-- EE reporting in

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DOOM
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby DOOM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:26 pm

I'll kick things off. I'm a Material Science and Engineering UG applying to about 14 of the T20 schools and sending an ED application to one of CCN. Applied in mid-to-late November, so no decisions quite yet. Getting very anxious.

I've been interested in an IP law career for quite some time, and after exploring potential options/work experiences in industry, consulting, teaching, etc. I've just been more convinced of how well law fits into my interests.

Haven't heard of any materials science majors on the forums/LSN. not sure if anyone has an opinion of how such backgrounds fair in the IP job market.

How have others been doing this cycle?

09042014
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:29 pm

EE here. I'm not committed to IP law, but I'm open to it. If I don't make T14, I'll probably be forced into it. I want patent lit, instead of prosecution, but I barely know what they are so what do I know.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby BriaTharen » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:32 pm

Electrical Engineering major applying to about 13 schools that fall more into the 20-100 range. Main area of interest is patents for microprocessor interfacing and also power systems. Haven't heard back from anyone yet, but DePaul's decision letter is on the way! *Crosses fingers*

Out of curiosity DOOM, why law? I always like hearing about why engineering majors decide to do law when our first year out of college pay is phenomenal.

awesomepossum
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:34 pm

hey guys. I'm actually a 2L at Michigan but I'm also an EE/Chem. I also went through the job search process and will be working as a summer at a V15 in NYC doing primarily patent lit so I can answer questions about that as well.

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DOOM
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby DOOM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:01 pm

JessicaTiger wrote:Electrical Engineering major applying to about 13 schools that fall more into the 20-100 range. Main area of interest is patents for microprocessor interfacing and also power systems. Haven't heard back from anyone yet, but DePaul's decision letter is on the way! *Crosses fingers*

Out of curiosity DOOM, why law? I always like hearing about why engineering majors decide to do law when our first year out of college pay is phenomenal.


yea, that definitely appears to be the case, even in this economy. for other kids in my major from my school, especially those going into energy/petroleum industries. i think it just comes down to what gets me excited. I paid attention to what blogs i read for fun, what headlines in the news im drawn too, what aspects of my internships i've loved/hated. I think having a wide range of work experiences during UG helped too, at least to rule out other career options. I also dabbled in patent prosecution work a bit and enjoyed it.

I think its a rare field, one where technical expertise is still very important, but where your work touches on many different aspects of how a product is going to go from idea to commercialization. i think if you are excited by some of the bigger events in high technology industries, you'll see that IP plays an important role in everything (antitrust, mergers, business strategy, venture capital, etc.). But its one of those career for engineers, where you always remain a technologist/scientist in the work that you do.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby MC Southstar » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:06 pm

Comp Sci UG @ RPI. In @ UPenn '13.

Taking the patent bar before fall just so I have it under my belt, like Desert Fox, open to IP and have taken classes about it, would prefer to be in LIT or USPTO not applicant-side prosecution, but not dead set on IP.

09042014
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:09 pm

shadowfrost000 wrote:Comp Sci UG @ RPI. In @ UPenn '13.

Taking the patent bar before fall just so I have it under my belt, like Desert Fox, open to IP and have taken classes about it, would prefer to be in LIT or USPTO not applicant-side prosecution, but not dead set on IP.


I'm probably going to take the patent bar, if only to get a paying job 1L summer and test the IP water before committing to it. But in this economy I don't think people are actually getting paid 1L summers, so it might be for nothing.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby MC Southstar » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:15 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
shadowfrost000 wrote:Comp Sci UG @ RPI. In @ UPenn '13.

Taking the patent bar before fall just so I have it under my belt, like Desert Fox, open to IP and have taken classes about it, would prefer to be in LIT or USPTO not applicant-side prosecution, but not dead set on IP.


I'm probably going to take the patent bar, if only to get a paying job 1L summer and test the IP water before committing to it. But in this economy I don't think people are actually getting paid 1L summers, so it might be for nothing.


Iuno about summers, but word on the street is that EE is the road to easy street.

(using two idioms with the word easy street in them AND the word road was a bad move, but I'll keep them there for fun)

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GTman11
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby GTman11 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:17 pm

I wish more schools would offer JD/MS (EE) dual degrees. Duke and Stanford are the only 2 in the top ten, yet Berkeley and UMich both have excellent EE grad schools, as well as Texas and some others. Have any people talked to schools about a dual degree program where one doesn't exist?

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MC Southstar
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby MC Southstar » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:21 pm

GTman11 wrote:I wish more schools would offer JD/MS (EE) dual degrees. Duke and Stanford are the only 2 in the top ten, yet Berkeley and UMich both have excellent EE grad schools, as well as Texas and some others. Have any people talked to schools about a dual degree program where one doesn't exist?


At a lot of schools, I believe you can bring up your own joint degree plan and get it approved.

09042014
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:22 pm

GTman11 wrote:I wish more schools would offer JD/MS (EE) dual degrees. Duke and Stanford are the only 2 in the top ten, yet Berkeley and UMich both have excellent EE grad schools, as well as Texas and some others. Have any people talked to schools about a dual degree program where one doesn't exist?


Ha, I couldn't get into one anyway. I was thinking of applying to a nearby state school for a MSEE before my JD but I think I'd just be putting a shit school diploma over my BSEE from a good school. Though if I end up at Illinois, I'll probably take a course or two while I'm there.

I think Northwestern does funded JD/PhD's including EE. Not worth it, unless you want to do a more specific area of tech law. You don't need a PhD for EE.

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DOOM
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby DOOM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:28 pm

shadowfrost000 wrote:
GTman11 wrote:I wish more schools would offer JD/MS (EE) dual degrees. Duke and Stanford are the only 2 in the top ten, yet Berkeley and UMich both have excellent EE grad schools, as well as Texas and some others. Have any people talked to schools about a dual degree program where one doesn't exist?


At a lot of schools, I believe you can bring up your own joint degree plan and get it approved.


I know Chicago is pretty open to this, more particularly with respect to MS programs in CS/Math/Physics. But yeah, no EE degrees there.

I agree that, even if its not a stated dual degree program, it would be possible to approach Berkeley/UMich/Penn with a joint degree plan and get it approved (or at least have something worked out)

aerospaceUT10
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby aerospaceUT10 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:45 pm

Aerospace checking in...


About to graduate, will be working first for a year or two before applying, so maybe 2011 or 2012! I just hope the employment prospects will not be too far behind a EE for patent law...

Derrex
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby Derrex » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:52 pm

EE checking in. BSEE from top 50. MSEE from top 3. Been working 2 years, not completely sold on law yet. I was originally admitted to PhD but ultimately decided not to take quals.

vl2104
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby vl2104 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:58 pm

Good idea for this thread.
Great place to exchange knowledge on the IP aspect of law.

I'm BS ChemE, MS EE with semiconductor experience.
Having been thinking of making this switch for quite a while.
Hope it materializes this year.

Here's a question to start up some discussion:
Which region do you guys think is a stronger market for IP oriented jobs: Bay Area or DC?

Bay Area has the innovation of Silicon Valley while DC has the USPTO. Thoughts?

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DOOM
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby DOOM » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:12 pm

My thought would be bay area. But i'm not too familiar with what the environment is like for IP lawyers in DC. Don't know if the location of the USPTO can really compare to just how much activity occurs in silicon valley, particularly with start-ups and smaller ventures. There also seems to be a lot more IP/high tech focused GP firms (Wilson Sonsini) and patent boutiques based out of the bay area.

That being said, I've met IP lawyers who have found success by starting smaller firms/solo practices away from these more obvious IP hubs. Particularly in the past year, there seems to be a lot of startups that have been looking to get started outside of the silicon valley bubble (against living/rent expense, congestion with so many dime-a-dozen startups, etc) Some hotspots that are less discussed are the areas surrounding large public universities.

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erico
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby erico » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:52 am

Cool thread. Got my BSEE and have been in industry for almost 3 years now doing RFIC, MMIC and RF/Microwave design. I like the work, esp the IC stuff, but the IP bug has been biting me for about a year now. Just started getting my first apps out in the last two weeks. Anxious to see some results. I think both prosecution and litigation could be interesting and from my initial searches it looks like it's easier to go from the former to the latter. Can anyone comment on the $$ for IP? I'm learning more about the bi-modal nature of law starting salaries...is it as difficult to get market $ doing EE IP as it is in other types of (Big)Law?

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erico
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby erico » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:55 am

DOOM wrote:I'll kick things off. I'm a Material Science and Engineering UG applying to about 14 of the T20 schools and sending an ED application to one of CCN. Applied in mid-to-late November, so no decisions quite yet. Getting very anxious.

I've been interested in an IP law career for quite some time, and after exploring potential options/work experiences in industry, consulting, teaching, etc. I've just been more convinced of how well law fits into my interests.

Haven't heard of any materials science majors on the forums/LSN. not sure if anyone has an opinion of how such backgrounds fair in the IP job market.

How have others been doing this cycle?


I would guess that materials would be pretty in demand but I'm not sure if you would need an advanced degree. There is a lot of research with respect to lasers, semi-conductors, LED display materials and the like that I'm guessing is generating a lot of IP.

vl2104
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby vl2104 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:04 am

erico wrote:Cool thread. Got my BSEE and have been in industry for almost 3 years now doing RFIC, MMIC and RF/Microwave design. I like the work, esp the IC stuff, but the IP bug has been biting me for about a year now. Just started getting my first apps out in the last two weeks. Anxious to see some results. I think both prosecution and litigation could be interesting and from my initial searches it looks like it's easier to go from the former to the latter. Can anyone comment on the $$ for IP? I'm learning more about the bi-modal nature of law starting salaries...is it as difficult to get market $ doing EE IP as it is in other types of (Big)Law?


From what I've heard, it would seem that EE IP would have it a little easier.
Many mid-sized IP boutique firms actually pay market rate. Don't necessarily need to work for the BigLaw firms to get market rate. Prosecution in particular is more forgiving in terms of your law school GPA. They'll consider your work experience, advanced degrees and undergrad grades.

vl2104
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby vl2104 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:11 am

erico wrote:
DOOM wrote:I'll kick things off. I'm a Material Science and Engineering UG applying to about 14 of the T20 schools and sending an ED application to one of CCN. Applied in mid-to-late November, so no decisions quite yet. Getting very anxious.

I've been interested in an IP law career for quite some time, and after exploring potential options/work experiences in industry, consulting, teaching, etc. I've just been more convinced of how well law fits into my interests.

Haven't heard of any materials science majors on the forums/LSN. not sure if anyone has an opinion of how such backgrounds fair in the IP job market.

How have others been doing this cycle?


I would guess that materials would be pretty in demand but I'm not sure if you would need an advanced degree. There is a lot of research with respect to lasers, semi-conductors, LED display materials and the like that I'm guessing is generating a lot of IP.


Material science would probably work with process technology.
This area would overlap with aspects of chemical, electrical and mechanical engineering so there's more competition.
EE is probably most in demand.

EE2JD
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby EE2JD » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:25 am

Regarding the OP's initial post... My cycle in 2007 went exactly as my GPA/LSAT would have suggested. Unfortunately, I found my EE background to be irrelevant in the law school application process. But the good news is that the EE background was very helpful for finding summer employment.

If anyone has any questions regarding my application cycle, summer employment (lit and pros), journals, etc., feel free to PM me.
Last edited by EE2JD on Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby BriaTharen » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:36 am

shadowfrost000 wrote:Comp Sci UG @ RPI. In @ UPenn '13.

Taking the patent bar before fall just so I have it under my belt, like Desert Fox, open to IP and have taken classes about it, would prefer to be in LIT or USPTO not applicant-side prosecution, but not dead set on IP.



I hate to be Ms. Doom and Gloom, but shadow- you need to make sure (if you haven't done so already) that your Computer Science program is accredited by one of four specific groups listed in the link I'll post below. Computer Science majors are not allowed to take the patent exam unless it has been accredited.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/grb.pdf

OG Loc
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Re: Engineering Applicants 2010

Postby OG Loc » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:15 am

Cool thread; I'm a civil grad, worked for a while in construction management, probably will end up at a T30ish school next year. What I've heard is that engineers do better in law school than any other major, and I think that makes sense. More interested in environ, energy, and construction law than IP and from what I understand probably wouldn't be considered a great candidate anyway, but nice to know that it is a possibility and one that has far less competition than the masses hustling for whatever they can get with their philosophy/pol sci/fingerpainting undergrad degrees.

FWIW I applied last year, and I think that the engineering degree helped me get into some places my numbers would have otherwise kept me from. I have a couple green dots among a sea of red ones on LSN.




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