Bad GPA

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vanwinkle
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:21 pm

b.j. wrote:So it's 170, or nothing? I mean, what about a 167 or 168?

I don't mean to sound like a wealthy, arrogant prick, but at this point, I don't particularly care about the money. I just want to get into some good school.


It depends on the school. 170 is valuable because it's rare and schools can collect 170s with the goal of increasing their rankings. However, if 167 or 168 is still at/above 75th % at the school you're looking at, you still have a strong shot at admission and have a chance at getting $$ from it.

Someone with a 160 can get $$ for it, by applying to a TTT school whose medians are down in the 150s. Most schools are playing the numbers game, which includes buying high LSAT scores. The only difference is what a "high" LSAT score is changes with the school you're considering.

Basically, if your GPA is shit, your goal is to have an LSAT score above median at the schools you're applying to, in order to make up for it. Some schools simply don't take wide splitters (UT-Austin and the UC schools are good examples, they favor higher GPAs) but many will gobble up a splitter to get the high LSAT score.

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mpasi
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby mpasi » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:27 pm

I have a shot at the Ivies, really?

EzraStiles
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby EzraStiles » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:29 pm

Don't get ahead of yourself. Just focus on getting as good a score as possible on the LSAT and than you can start dreaming of the possibilities you've afforded yourself.

b.j.
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby b.j. » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:38 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
b.j. wrote:So it's 170, or nothing? I mean, what about a 167 or 168?

I don't mean to sound like a wealthy, arrogant prick, but at this point, I don't particularly care about the money. I just want to get into some good school.


It depends on the school. 170 is valuable because it's rare and schools can collect 170s with the goal of increasing their rankings. However, if 167 or 168 is still at/above 75th % at the school you're looking at, you still have a strong shot at admission and have a chance at getting $$ from it.

Someone with a 160 can get $$ for it, by applying to a TTT school whose medians are down in the 150s. Most schools are playing the numbers game, which includes buying high LSAT scores. The only difference is what a "high" LSAT score is changes with the school you're considering.

Basically, if your GPA is shit, your goal is to have an LSAT score above median at the schools you're applying to, in order to make up for it. Some schools simply don't take wide splitters (UT-Austin and the UC schools are good examples, they favor higher GPAs) but many will gobble up a splitter to get the high LSAT score.


That's what I figured. Does same sort of rule applies to part time programs? I'm starting to think my best bet may be to apply to Maryland's part time program. My score right now isn't great (159) but it's within the zone where improvement in February is possible, especially since just a few points in RC could move me up a few points overall, and just a few points movement could put me over the 75th for Maryland's part time program (161).

I'm going to try for a 170 in Feb. It might be a little unrealistic, but (a) I'd like to have my options as open as possible and (b) if I get a 165 instead of a 170, it'll still be a lot better than what I have now.

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Joga Bonito
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby Joga Bonito » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:51 pm

mpasi wrote:I have a shot at the Ivies, really?


Don't get too excited, I am a urm with a shitttttty gpa and a good lsat and unless you get over a 170 i wouldn't expect to get into any ivies other than maybe(maybe) Cornell. Yale is off limits no matter what, if you have below like a 3.25. Columbia is not that nice to people with really shitty gpa's even urms, but its possible with a shitty gpa, I think, if you have over 170. Then theres UPenn which may be a possibility I don't know much about them in that way. Depending on how shitty your shitty gpa is you could get a low t14 with a 170 something, maybe 167+ and a 2.5+. I know a couple urms with low gpas 2.5< and 170s and they didn't get into any ivies other than cornell. That said you could get into harvard if you score over a 170, although its unlikely unless your Mother Teresea or her equivalent.

There's one more exception, ff you score a 180 you actually may get into all execpt yale.

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mpasi
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby mpasi » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:53 pm

EzraStiles wrote:Don't get ahead of yourself. Just focus on getting as good a score as possible on the LSAT and than you can start dreaming of the possibilities you've afforded yourself.



Oh, I'm not. This is just talk. I'm just amazed at the list of schools everyone has said I could (hypothetically) apply to.

PoliticalJunkie
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby PoliticalJunkie » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:02 pm

International Law is a field.

OP: Work. I too have a bad UG GPA but my 174 cured it (or at least stopped the bleeding). Coupled with my 5 years of W/E, I am pretty much shut out of many T-10 schools, I'm fairly confident that I will get a handful of t-20 acceptances and very confident that I'll get some Tier 1 schools bit with schollys.

You really need to get some W/E. What are your specific international law interests? War Crimes, International trade, human rights, etc? It's easier said than done, but getting quality W/E can help dramatically with a low UG GPA.

Good Luck!

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vanwinkle
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:06 pm

mpasi wrote:I have a shot at the Ivies, really?


Don't make the mistake of thinking "Ivy" is what means "best" in terms of law schools. You have a shot at Cornell, which is an Ivy, but you also have a shot at UVA and Michigan, which are better schools. :wink:

(Seriously, though, yes, you have a shot at the "top ten" law schools in the country if you get into the 170s, especially if you have some kind of addendum that can explain the low GPA.)

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mpasi
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby mpasi » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:38 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
mpasi wrote:I have a shot at the Ivies, really?


Don't make the mistake of thinking "Ivy" is what means "best" in terms of law schools. You have a shot at Cornell, which is an Ivy, but you also have a shot at UVA and Michigan, which are better schools. :wink:

(Seriously, though, yes, you have a shot at the "top ten" law schools in the country if you get into the 170s, especially if you have some kind of addendum that can explain the low GPA.)



I thought about this after I posted it. American is my dream school, because it has one of the best international law programs around. Harvard has a pretty good one as well, but American offers better specializations within the field. And honestly, I doubt I'd apply to any of the Ivies. I want to be realistic about my chances, haha.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:43 pm

mpasi wrote:I thought about this after I posted it. American is my dream school, because it has one of the best international law programs around. Harvard has a pretty good one as well, but American offers better specializations within the field. And honestly, I doubt I'd apply to any of the Ivies. I want to be realistic about my chances, haha.


If you hit/break 170, you should apply to Cornell and Penn, which are both Ivies, would both take you, and would both give you great chances of getting into a law firm that does international law work. Seriously.

billmon
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby billmon » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:18 pm

Im doing my Masters in International Law right now and also applying to JD programs. I have been very happy with my program so far. Its great to write about in PS and put on your resume. I dont think it changes your UG GPA situation too much, but it gives you a opportunity to show that if you can do well in law as a post-grad, it could translate well into a JD program. With that said, your UG is still very distinct from any MA work you do.

b.j.
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby b.j. » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:38 pm

mpasi wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
mpasi wrote:I have a shot at the Ivies, really?


Don't make the mistake of thinking "Ivy" is what means "best" in terms of law schools. You have a shot at Cornell, which is an Ivy, but you also have a shot at UVA and Michigan, which are better schools. :wink:

(Seriously, though, yes, you have a shot at the "top ten" law schools in the country if you get into the 170s, especially if you have some kind of addendum that can explain the low GPA.)



I thought about this after I posted it. American is my dream school, because it has one of the best international law programs around. Harvard has a pretty good one as well, but American offers better specializations within the field. And honestly, I doubt I'd apply to any of the Ivies. I want to be realistic about my chances, haha.


Look at this way. American is far easier to get into than any of the T14, so if you get a score high enough to get into any of them, you'll not only get into American, you'll probably get a lot of money, too. So why not try to get into them, since you already said you'd like to go to any of them even if you don't think it isn't likely? If you end up getting a 166 instead of a 172, you'll still almost certainly get accepted at American, but if you end up breaking a 170, you'll have so many more options.

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mpasi
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby mpasi » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:41 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
mpasi wrote:I thought about this after I posted it. American is my dream school, because it has one of the best international law programs around. Harvard has a pretty good one as well, but American offers better specializations within the field. And honestly, I doubt I'd apply to any of the Ivies. I want to be realistic about my chances, haha.


If you hit/break 170, you should apply to Cornell and Penn, which are both Ivies, would both take you, and would both give you great chances of getting into a law firm that does international law work. Seriously.




I'm not trying to doubt you, but seriously? With my shitty ass GPA? I guess it's hard for me to believe since I've spent the last two years depressed over my GPA. :X Up until a month or so ago, I'd completely ruled out law school as a possibility.

b.j.
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby b.j. » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:28 pm

mpasi wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
mpasi wrote:I thought about this after I posted it. American is my dream school, because it has one of the best international law programs around. Harvard has a pretty good one as well, but American offers better specializations within the field. And honestly, I doubt I'd apply to any of the Ivies. I want to be realistic about my chances, haha.


If you hit/break 170, you should apply to Cornell and Penn, which are both Ivies, would both take you, and would both give you great chances of getting into a law firm that does international law work. Seriously.




I'm not trying to doubt you, but seriously? With my shitty ass GPA? I guess it's hard for me to believe since I've spent the last two years depressed over my GPA. :X Up until a month or so ago, I'd completely ruled out law school as a possibility.


If I were you, I'd be happy about this. Not only can you still go to law school, but you have a much better chance of getting into some great schools even with your less-than-stellar GPA. That's not a guarantee, of course, but still, there's always hope, and for you, much more hope than for most people.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:03 am

mpasi wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
mpasi wrote:I thought about this after I posted it. American is my dream school, because it has one of the best international law programs around. Harvard has a pretty good one as well, but American offers better specializations within the field. And honestly, I doubt I'd apply to any of the Ivies. I want to be realistic about my chances, haha.


If you hit/break 170, you should apply to Cornell and Penn, which are both Ivies, would both take you, and would both give you great chances of getting into a law firm that does international law work. Seriously.




I'm not trying to doubt you, but seriously? With my shitty ass GPA? I guess it's hard for me to believe since I've spent the last two years depressed over my GPA. :X Up until a month or so ago, I'd completely ruled out law school as a possibility.


Seriously. It's not guaranteed, but you have a pretty strong shot. It will vary depending on what your actual LSAT is, but with a 170+ you should apply to GULC, NU, UVA, Penn, and Cornell at least. With a GPA that low it's going to be hit or miss who will take you, but at least one of them likely will.

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mpasi
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Re: Bad GPA

Postby mpasi » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:07 am

Would applying to be part-time increase my chances?




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