The lowest-ranked law schools in the US

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Burger in a can
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The lowest-ranked law schools in the US

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:16 am

-I deleted what I typed here before, because it was supposedly offensive. Here is a list of the lowest-rated law schools in the US, listed lowest first, by category.-

GPA 25%
1.Southern University-2.52
2.Whittier Law School-2.56
3.University of the District of Columbia and Barry University-2.7
5. St. Thomas University, Thomas Jefferson, Appalachian School of Law, Thomas M. Cooley- 2.75

GPA 75%
1. Whittier Law School-3.19
2.Thomas Jefferson-3.23
3. Southern University-3.26
4. Texas Southern University-3.29
5. Barry University- 3.3

LSAT 25%
1. Southern University and North Carolina Central University- 143
2. Thomas M. Cooley-145
3. Texas Southern University and University of Detroit Mercy-146
4. St. Thomas University, Oklahoma City University, University of North Dakota, Nova Southeastern University, Ave Maria School of Law, and Appalachian School of Law- 147
5. Ohio Northern University, Thomas Jefferson, Barry University, Mississippi College, Western State University, and University of the District of Columbia- 148

LSAT 75%
1. Southern University- 149
2. Nova Southeastern University, St. Thomas University, Texas Southern University, Thomas Jefferson, and North Carolina Central University- 151
3. Barry University and Oklahoma City University- 152
4. Touro College (Fuchsberg), University of the District of Columbia, Western State University, Mississippi College, New England School of Law, Appalachian School of Law, and Whittier Law School- 153
5. Golden Gate University, University of North Dakota, University of Detroit Mercy, University of Dayton, Widener University, Florida Coastal, Valparaiso University, and Thomas M. Cooley- 154

ACCEPTANCE RATE
1. Thomas M. Cooley- 73.8%
2. Western New England- 71%
3. Loyola University NOLA- 67.2%
4. Golden Gate University- 62.9%
5. Whittier Law School-61.6%

STUDENT-TO-FACULTY RATIO
1. Thomas M. Cooley- 24.3
2. New England School of Law- 23.2
3. New York Law School- 22.9
4. William Mitchell- 22.5
5. St. Mary's University- 22.1

EMPLOYED AT GRADUATION NOTE: Many schools do not report this data, so this category starts with the lowest reported percentage. *See ggocat's analysis below
1. Florida International University- 21.4%
2. New England School of Law- 30.5%
3. University of Memphis- 36%
4. CUNY-Queens College- 36.7%
5. Valparaiso University- 40.7%

EMPLOYED 9 MONTHS AFTERN GRADUATION
1. Western State University- 57.9%
2. University of the District of Columbia- 66.9%
3. Appalachian School of Law- 69.1%
4. Thomas M. Cooley and Ave Maria School of Law-73.3%
5. Touro College (Fuchsberg) 74.4%

BAR PASSAGE
1. Western State University: 26.4%
2. Appalachian School of Law: 46.7%
3. University of the District of Columbia: 53.8%
4. Thomas Jefferson: 54.5%
5. Whittier Law School: 55.6%

BAR PASSAGE UNDER STATE AVERAGE
1. Western State University: -38.6%
2. Appalachian School of Law: -27.3%
3. Texas Southern University: -25.8%
4. University of the District of Columbia: -23.2%
5. Howard University: -15.5%

Source: http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index. ... sc/LSATLow

ggocat wrote:For schools that don't report at-graduation employment rates to U.S. News, you can use the following formula that U.S. News uses to calculate their at-graduation employment rates for purposes of the overall rankings:
EG = (E9 * .996) - .294
Theodore P. Seto, Understanding the U.S. News Law School Rankings, 60 SMU L. Rev. 493, 500 (2007).

By using this formula, we can very likely predict the maximum number that the non-reporting school has for at-graduation employment rate. I say "very likely predict" because there is a slim chance that the school simply doesn't track the information. But any rational school would track the information and report if it helps them or not report if it hurts.

Applying the formula above, we see the following schools probably have at-graduation employment rates below the following numbers:
1. Western State University - 28.3%
2. University of the District of Columbia - 37.2%
3. Appalachian - 36.4%
4. Thomas M. Cooley, Ave Maria - 43.6%
5. Touro College - 44.7%

We can't really do a combined list, though, because this second list includes the equilibrium number (the number that if a school reported would neither help nor hurt its overall ranking). But we know with near certainty that these schools have at-graduation employment rates below those numbers; how far below, we do not know.
Last edited by Burger in a can on Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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MURPH
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby MURPH » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:21 am

No list would be complete without this cluster fuck.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/colleg ... he_sky.php

Burger in a can
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:27 am

MURPH wrote:No list would be complete without this cluster fuck.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/colleg ... he_sky.php


Nice. I love that both Ave Maria and Detroit Mercy are hot contenders in stats above.

tamlyric
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby tamlyric » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:44 am

And the point of this thread is...?

Burger in a can
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:46 am

tamlyric wrote:And the point of this thread is...?

I just thought people might like to be able to see the statistics for the worst law schools all in one place. If you're not interested, you're welcome to ignore it. :D

tamlyric
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby tamlyric » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:48 am

Burger in a can wrote:
tamlyric wrote:And the point of this thread is...?

I just thought people might like to be able to see the statistics for the worst law schools all in one place. If you're not interested, you're welcome to ignore it. :D


Is that what you thought? :roll:

Have fun with this! :D Hopefully by the end of this thread your self-esteem will be high enough that future threads of this sort won't be necessary to preserve it.

EDIT: Seriously though. What is the point of shitting on people that you think are inferior to you? Or are you going to say with a straight face that this is not what this thread is designed to do?
Last edited by tamlyric on Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Burger in a can
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:52 am

tamlyric wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
tamlyric wrote:And the point of this thread is...?

I just thought people might like to be able to see the statistics for the worst law schools all in one place. If you're not interested, you're welcome to ignore it. :D


Is that what you thought? :roll:

Have fun with this! :D Hopefully by the end of this thread your self-esteem will be high enough that future threads of this sort won't be necessary to preserve it.


Thanks!!! :mrgreen: I hope you're right. Have a wonderful day!!!

EDIT: Sorry- didn't see your edit. I didn't intend to shit on anybody. This is statistical data. I was tired of people joking about Cooley all the time, but I was interesting in seeing whether it was really as bad as people imply. So I looked it up, and then thought that some people on TLS might be interested to see what I found. Again, if you aren't one of those people, that's fine with me. Sorry if I offended you, and good luck with your admissions cycle! :D

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mpasi
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby mpasi » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:01 pm

^The only thing wrong with this thread is that you didn't take into account that some students at those schools might be on TLS. :D

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rondemarino
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby rondemarino » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:03 pm

I would include 1L attrition rates.

Burger in a can
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:03 pm

mpasi wrote:^The only thing wrong with this thread is that you didn't take into account that some students at those schools might be on TLS. :D


I would assume that if they are, they are already pretty aware of where their school stands in these rankings.

Why is this cold, real DATA so offensive? Why does it seem like people are upset that I posted some true information about law schools on a law school discussion board?

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Grond
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Grond » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:04 pm

I didn't click the link, but here's a claim for a 0% bar passage rate for Miles.
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prel ... icseen#new

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sarlis
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby sarlis » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:04 pm

do any of the schools named make their own ranking system, placing themselves in the top 20? no? then i won't make fun of the schools mentioned.

Burger in a can
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:11 pm

sarlis wrote:do any of the schools named make their own ranking system, placing themselves in the top 20? no? then i won't make fun of the schools mentioned.


Oh- I see. I guess it sort of seemed like I was suggesting that these schools be made fun of. I didn't mean it like that, but I deleted what I wrote because I understand how it was being viewed that way.

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AlanShore
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby AlanShore » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:13 pm

I think the data is interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that New England School of Law is one of the worst law schools. Some people on TLS compare New England to Suffolk and say that there isn't too much difference between them. I always thought Suffolk was MUCH better than New England and now I see that it probably true!

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sarlis
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby sarlis » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:14 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
sarlis wrote:do any of the schools named make their own ranking system, placing themselves in the top 20? no? then i won't make fun of the schools mentioned.


Oh- I see. I guess it sort of seemed like I was suggesting that these schools be made fun of. I didn't mean it like that, but I deleted what I wrote because I understand how it was being viewed that way.


no, I understood what you meant by your deleted comment. I was just justifying why people on this board make fun of cooley, because of their rankings system

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MC Southstar
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby MC Southstar » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:16 pm

Division of labor was supposed to make us more efficient...

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NayBoer
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby NayBoer » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:25 pm

rondemarino wrote:I would include 1L attrition rates.
This was my reaction too. Acceptance rate, student entrance numbers, and faculty ratio don't strike me as quite as damning as 'can't get a job' and 'can't pass the bar.' Academic attrition and even transfer attrition do seem relevant, either because the school fails students out or because the students are fleeing the carnage.

On a side note, if you go to Western State University's website, it says across the top that it's ABA accredited. The fact that a school needs to tell you it's accredited means it can't rely on its own reputation and needs the accreditation to gain some validity.

http://www.wsulaw.edu/

Burger in a can
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:37 pm

NayBoer wrote:
rondemarino wrote:I would include 1L attrition rates.
This was my reaction too. Acceptance rate, student entrance numbers, and faculty ratio don't strike me as quite as damning as 'can't get a job' and 'can't pass the bar.' Academic attrition and even transfer attrition do seem relevant, either because the school fails students out or because the students are fleeing the carnage.

On a side note, if you go to Western State University's website, it says across the top that it's ABA accredited. The fact that a school needs to tell you it's accredited means it can't rely on its own reputation and needs the accreditation to gain some validity.

http://www.wsulaw.edu/


I agree that attrition would be handy. If anyone is willing to do the research I would be happy to stick the numbers in the original post or, obviously, you can post them on your own.

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mpasi
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby mpasi » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:05 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
mpasi wrote:^The only thing wrong with this thread is that you didn't take into account that some students at those schools might be on TLS. :D


I would assume that if they are, they are already pretty aware of where their school stands in these rankings.

Why is this cold, real DATA so offensive? Why does it seem like people are upset that I posted some true information about law schools on a law school discussion board?



Maybe it's because you went out of your way to make fun of those schools, and by default, the people who attend them? I'm not offended because I'm not attending one of those schools nor am I interested, but I do find this thread to be a tad bit ridiculous. By ridiculous, I mean the fact that you expected to be applauded or have everyone laugh along with you, and the opposite happened, so now you're defensive and confused. It's really not funny, considering there are people who go to those schools who are working their asses off despite the schools they attend. That's why I fail to find it funny now, or when someone makes a Cooley joke.

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Philo38
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Philo38 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:08 pm

mpasi wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
mpasi wrote:^The only thing wrong with this thread is that you didn't take into account that some students at those schools might be on TLS. :D


I would assume that if they are, they are already pretty aware of where their school stands in these rankings.

Why is this cold, real DATA so offensive? Why does it seem like people are upset that I posted some true information about law schools on a law school discussion board?



Maybe it's because you went out of your way to make fun of those schools, and by default, the people who attend them? I'm not offended because I'm not attending one of those schools nor am I interested, but I do find this thread to be a tad bit ridiculous. By ridiculous, I mean the fact that you expected to be applauded or have everyone laugh along with you, and the opposite happened, so now you're defensive and confused. It's really not funny, considering there are people who go to those schools who are working their asses off despite the schools they attend. That's why I fail to find it funny, or when someone makes a Cooley joke.


hurt-feelings-lawschools.com

starstruck393
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby starstruck393 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:14 pm

mpasi wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
mpasi wrote:^The only thing wrong with this thread is that you didn't take into account that some students at those schools might be on TLS. :D


I would assume that if they are, they are already pretty aware of where their school stands in these rankings.

Why is this cold, real DATA so offensive? Why does it seem like people are upset that I posted some true information about law schools on a law school discussion board?



Maybe it's because you went out of your way to make fun of those schools, and by default, the people who attend them? I'm not offended because I'm not attending one of those schools nor am I interested, but I do find this thread to be a tad bit ridiculous. By ridiculous, I mean the fact that you expected to be applauded or have everyone laugh along with you, and the opposite happened, so now you're defensive and confused. It's really not funny, considering there are people who go to those schools who are working their asses off despite the schools they attend. That's why I fail to find it funny now, or when someone makes a Cooley joke.


That's one way to look at it. Another way is to consider that probably many of the students that are going to these schools don't know how bad they are. Reality is going to hit them in the face eventually when they are saddled with debt and can't find a job. There's no reason to sugar coat the information about the schools they attend and act like the road will be paved in gold for them.

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davidicus
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby davidicus » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:18 pm

There's question that still lingers in my mind - and perhaps this is part of the reason the OP posted this thread. With all of this information at our fingertips, why would someone choose to go to one of these schools? I'm not trying to insult anyone who goes there, just really trying to understand their motivation given the schools' reputations.

Burger in a can
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Burger in a can » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:20 pm

mpasi wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:
mpasi wrote:^The only thing wrong with this thread is that you didn't take into account that some students at those schools might be on TLS. :D


I would assume that if they are, they are already pretty aware of where their school stands in these rankings.

Why is this cold, real DATA so offensive? Why does it seem like people are upset that I posted some true information about law schools on a law school discussion board?



Maybe it's because you went out of your way to make fun of those schools, and by default, the people who attend them? I'm not offended because I'm not attending one of those schools nor am I interested, but I do find this thread to be a tad bit ridiculous. By ridiculous, I mean the fact that you expected to be applauded or have everyone laugh along with you, and the opposite happened, so now you're defensive and confused. It's really not funny, considering there are people who go to those schools who are working their asses off despite the schools they attend. That's why I fail to find it funny now, or when someone makes a Cooley joke.


How did I go out of my way to make fun of those schools? What makes you think that I think any of this is humorous?

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rondemarino
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby rondemarino » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:21 pm

Burger in a can wrote:How did I go out of my way to make fun of those schools? What makes you think that I think any of this is humorous?


The title?

But, the truth is hilarious and people can deal with it.

Lord Jim-ish
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Re: www.Worst-Law-Schools.com

Postby Lord Jim-ish » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:23 pm

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Last edited by Lord Jim-ish on Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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