Top Law Schools

wired wrote:Ahem.

digital throat clear... really?

sdegarmo wrote:

wired wrote:Ahem.

digital throat clear... really?

Yeah in hindsight that's the only part of my post I really regret. That was pretty lame.

anabombforarod wrote:
I agree. Wired is a completely dbag. If he is this douchy now I can't even imagine how douchy he will be once he actually starts law school.

Do you find me douchy for laughing at your typo?

SteelReserve wrote:

I did my Pieper review for the NY bar at Hofstra. I've never encountered a bigger group of mommy-daddy spolied, spikey-haired, orange-skinned idiots in my entire life. Kids would show up to class infrequently, miss entire portions of lectures, fail to hand in essays for marking... It was insane. I'm not shocked at all that their bar pass rate is the worst of ALL THE SCHOOLS IN NY STATE.

I have never seen a more unprofessional school in my life! I visited a girl at Hofstra (during my undergrad days), so I decided to go into the law school with her to check it out. I said I was interested in applying.

I look into a classroom and I would say at least 50% of the guys in the class were wearing baseball caps, some at angles other than straight forward.

I was mortified and never looked back.

Why would wearing a hat to class be an indicator of an unprofessional school?

nycparalegal wrote:
Why would wearing a hat to class be an indicator of an unprofessional school?

If i were to pop in a LS class on the east coast, i would expect to be blinded by khakis and polos

sdegarmo wrote:

nycparalegal wrote:
Why would wearing a hat to class be an indicator of an unprofessional school?

If i were to pop in a LS class on the east coast, i would expect to be blinded by khakis and polos

You would be in for quite a disappointment.

Reasonable man, I was agreeing with you.

I was talking about the people who were arguing that Howard's was lower when the intent of your thread was obvious.

nycparalegal wrote:

SteelReserve wrote:

I did my Pieper review for the NY bar at Hofstra. I've never encountered a bigger group of mommy-daddy spolied, spikey-haired, orange-skinned idiots in my entire life. Kids would show up to class infrequently, miss entire portions of lectures, fail to hand in essays for marking... It was insane. I'm not shocked at all that their bar pass rate is the worst of ALL THE SCHOOLS IN NY STATE.

I have never seen a more unprofessional school in my life! I visited a girl at Hofstra (during my undergrad days), so I decided to go into the law school with her to check it out. I said I was interested in applying.

I look into a classroom and I would say at least 50% of the guys in the class were wearing baseball caps, some at angles other than straight forward.

I was mortified and never looked back.

Why would wearing a hat to class be an indicator of an unprofessional school?

At UVA, I've definitely seen backwards slung baseball caps. Then again, UVA is known for it's casual collegial atmosphere. UVA is situated in what can, by all measures, be called a college town. Charlottesville is small and packed with greenery. Chances are high that while walking around the city or shopping at the mall, you will see someone you know. The law school is a short drive from the airport and not too far from the Appalachian Trail. Many find the intimate surroundings a welcome relief from the bustle of a big city lifestyle.

Hofstra is also cutting their football program. Ouch

Cleareyes wrote:To be fair, it's not like -3.4% below average is all that shocking.

How the hell is Western State still accredited?

Surprisingly their career development webpage (LinkRemoved) has words other than "Abandon hope all ye who enter here" on it.

No offense to anyone who might go there, but that bar passage rate shocks the conscience.

+ 1 to Western State for trying to use a hot girl (the one on the far left) to convince people that their career development department has some intergrity.

nycparalegal wrote: Why would wearing a hat to class be an indicator of an unprofessional school?

While I don't think people wearing hats in general is an indicator, I do believe that a certain lack of professionalism can be inferred when one sees people wearing these hats in the classroom.

At UVA, I've definitely seen backwards slung baseball caps

UVA the campus generally, or inside UVA law building/school (I'm unfamiliar w/UVA)? I can certainly understand undergrads wearing hats, that's common.

Why would wearing a hat to class be an indicator of an unprofessional school?

As to men, wearing hats indoors (often tilted and backwards) at what purports itself to be a professional school?

I'm not looking for an argument here, just making a reflection. You don't have to draw the same conclusion.

Some thoughts and general reflections:

To Wired:

1) If the only part of your post that regret is the digital throat clear, you sir are, without exception, a huge D-bag.

2) While I suppose the thread title could have been a little more clear, there is a limited number of characters that can be used in naming a thread.

3) You seem to be the ONLY person that was even slightly confused by the 'ambiguity' of my post.

4) Will you be attending the Hoff?

Columbia Law wrote:

Cleareyes wrote:To be fair, it's not like -3.4% below average is all that shocking.

How the hell is Western State still accredited?

Surprisingly their career development webpage (LinkRemoved) has words other than "Abandon hope all ye who enter here" on it.

No offense to anyone who might go there, but that bar passage rate shocks the conscience.

+ 1 to Western State for trying to use a hot girl (the one on the far left) to convince people that their career development department has some intergrity.

That's the first law school I've seen that feels the need to (directly under its name) reassure anyone visiting its website that it is, indeed, fully accredited by the ABA. It probably serves to remind themselves, as well.

dutchstriker wrote:

Columbia Law wrote:

Cleareyes wrote:To be fair, it's not like -3.4% below average is all that shocking.

How the hell is Western State still accredited?

Surprisingly their career development webpage (LinkRemoved) has words other than "Abandon hope all ye who enter here" on it.

No offense to anyone who might go there, but that bar passage rate shocks the conscience.

+ 1 to Western State for trying to use a hot girl (the one on the far left) to convince people that their career development department has some intergrity.

That's the first law school I've seen that feels the need to (directly under its name) reassure anyone visiting its website that it is, indeed, fully accredited by the ABA. It probably serves to remind themselves, as well.

Western State must have received full accreditation only the last few months. When I was applying they were still only provisionally accredited (as they had been since 2005).

We should be congratulating the school for this accomplishment, not mocking it. Accreditation confirms that they are offering a curriculum that meets the ABA standard.

The low bar pass rate probably has less to do with the quality of education that is offered, and more to do with the quality of students it has been able to attract over the last 3-4 years as a provisionally accredited school.

.

Danteshek wrote:
Western State must have received full accreditation only the last few months. When I was applying they were still only provisionally accredited (as they had been since 2005).

We should be congratulating the school for this accomplishment, not mocking it. Accreditation confirms that they are offering a curriculum that meets the ABA standard.

The low bar pass rate probably has less to do with the quality of education that is offered, and more to do with the quality of students it has been able to attract over the last 3-4 years as a provisionally accredited school.

I hope you're kidding.

It doesn't matter why the bar passage rate it so low. It's not okay to accept (and charge big money to) students who are unlikely to be able to pass the bar with the education you furnish them, regardless of whether it's because of their credentials or the education.

Tuition
Tuition for the 2009-2010 Academic Year, commencing with fall 2009 semester:

* Full time tuition is $16,300 per semester
* Part-time tuition is $10,900 per semester
* Summer 2010 courses are $1090.00 per unit

There is no laudable accomplishment in charging that kind of money so students can spend 3 years of their lives at your school and then get a J.D. that will be utterly worthless when they are unable to pass the bar (Yes they might have better luck in other states with easier bar exams, but I would guess the vast majority want to stay in California.)

It's one thing for Hofstra to charge a lot and have its students have a slightly lower than average but still over 70% chance of passing the bar. This is another thing altogether.

Western State is the best option for some students (not everyone can get into Harvard, or Chapman for that matter). Wiping the school off the map isn't going to help those students.

reasonable_man wrote:http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/index.php/3/asc/State


Yet another strong year at Hofstra Law!

And for disbanding their football team today!

Danteshek wrote:Western State is the best option for some students (not everyone can get into Harvard, or Chapman for that matter). Wiping the school off the map isn't going to help those students.

Why not? You're better off not going to law school then spending that much money and time for a sub 1/3rd chance of passing the bar and extremely limited employment prospects. I know not everybody can get into a top law school and I have no problem with solid tier 3 or tier 4 schools. That doesn't make it okay to take large sums of money in order to sell students an education that likely won't even allow them to legally practice in the state, let alone get the sort of jobs you probably dangled in front of them while recruiting them.

I don't have a problem with low ranked schools. I've even sort of defended Hofstra in this thread, though I do think Hofstra is a big rip off and wouldn't advise anyone to go there for sticker. What I have a problem with is a school selling a worthless credential. A J.D. without bar passage is probably worth about the cost of the paper it's printed on, the exception being if you go to a top top school and go directly into business or legislative work and never bother taking the bar .* It isn't worth what Western State is charging for it.


*Or if you want to be mayor of L.A.

P.S. People's College of Law is better than Western as an institution. Sure you're unlikely to pass the bar from there, but at least it's dirt cheap and you won't be saddled with unserviceable debt.

SteelReserve wrote:

At UVA, I've definitely seen backwards slung baseball caps

UVA the campus generally, or inside UVA law building/school (I'm unfamiliar w/UVA)? I can certainly understand undergrads wearing hats, that's common.

law school dooder.

We should be congratulating Western State for gaining full ABA approval? Are you fucking serious?

If you stuck 35 unemployed lawyers in a McDonald's for free lunch and called them a faculty, Got a few Westlaw/Lexis accounts, took out the fri-elator and a few other cooking devices and rammed some law-books in there, you'd be looking at the first ABA approved McDonald's school of law.

Please.

reasonable_man wrote:We should be congratulating Western State for gaining full ABA approval? Are you fucking serious?

If you stuck 35 unemployed lawyers in a McDonald's for free lunch and called them a faculty, Got a few Westlaw/Lexis accounts, took out the fri-elator and a few other cooking devices and rammed some law-books in there, you'd be looking at the first ABA approved McDonald's school of law.

Please.

Why do you have to take out the fri-elator and other cooking devices? Just to make room for the law books?

reasonable_man wrote:We should be congratulating Western State for gaining full ABA approval? Are you fucking serious?

If you stuck 35 unemployed lawyers in a McDonald's for free lunch and called them a faculty, Got a few Westlaw/Lexis accounts, took out the fri-elator and a few other cooking devices and rammed some law-books in there, you'd be looking at the first ABA approved McDonald's school of law.

Please.

Good god RM, don't give them any ideas!

I don't care what you guys say, I'm still going to Western State. Did you guys know that U.S. News & World Report rated Western State University #1 in its law school diversity index. Suck on that.