http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2009/11/race-class-.html




Fight the power my Asian brothers and sisters!

I wonder how many Asians (as opposed to whites) come from lower class families or families where neither parent graduated from high school?

Okay, I've done the math and I think this means the following:

Black with 1725 = Asian with 2400

White with 2190 = Asian with 2400

This is so fucked up. I'm telling my little brother to identify as white or other on his tests and when he applies to college next year.

Hopefully that doesn't apply to law schools.

I have to post again because this is such bullshit. Here's what the researcher says about why Asians shouldn't necessarily be worried about this data:



So, this data doesn't suggest that Asians are held to a much higher standard. It can be explained by the fact that Asians don't join as many clubs or play as many sports, don't do as much volunteering, don't write as well, and don't get good LORs.

The quote's from here: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/11/03/elite

Reserving a spot for antagonizing image macros.

I agree, what a stupid explanation. I can't provide any statistics, but I don't see any trend towards Asians not volunteering or not having as many extracurricular activities as other people.

If I was Asian, I wouldn't respond to the race question on law school applications.

Unfortunately, for most of us, the name gives it away.

haha yeah, I overlooked that important point.

Umm... from the Asians in my high school, they all did a profuse number of activities and extracurriculars.... so I don't buy your theory. I put down Asian on all my apps, oh well. This always happens. Most Asians that are relatively affluent in America have parents that came from working class or poverty backgrounds, I doubt you could say the same about most upper crust white folks. But face it guys, if you were white, would you want a bunch of chanks at your school, all doing kung fu and eating kung pow chicken all the time?

None of the posters in this thread put forth this "theory."

Sorry, I must have misread. I guess you were disagreeing with a quoted article. Mai bad.

Hobbes, you're Asian?! I guess I shouldn't be surprised given that you've never suggested otherwise, but man I thought you were a white guy. I suppose that referencing a 17th century English political philosopher in your name probably led me down that road.

But yeah, I can't imagine you not sweeping this cycle, regardless of how Asians are treated!

man this is sad news indeed, though hardly surprising. i really am hoping law schools dont work the same way...or else im really starting to regret filling in the race option haha (maybe my last name can be seen as unAsian?)



above bolded is not true. in fact, according to academic research, most (not all) Asians who are relatively affluent came from middle class backgrounds. most have high educational attainment and came to the US (in certain waves, like 1950s-60s, etc) to further their education, so they really brought a lot of 'resources' with them.

and wow, that attempt at an explanation wreaks of the model minority stereotype.

Purely anecdotally, most of the high achieving Asians I knew in high school did more community service/extracurriculars than average, primarily because they knew it was important for colleges. You don't need this study to tell you most of the top Ivies are anti-Asian. If you look at % of student body, places that don't actively discriminate like Berkeley (40% Asian), MIT (30% Asian), Stanford (25%), vs HYP (10%).

Hm, now that I think about it. You might actually be right. I meant monetary background, not educational though. They certainly worked their way to better resources, but did they begin that way? If you have statistical data, I'd be more than happy to read it. I am basing my opinion off of personal experience and people I know. A lot of Taiwanese people I know, for example, are from old money. However, mainland Chinese, southeast Asian, Phillipinos, Koreans I know tend to be from pretty poor backgrounds and either worked their way up through business or education in the last generation. Indians seem to be either or. I'd be surprised to hear that most of them came from the middle class since there is historically no middle class in many of the aforementioned countries.

Do you really think immigration is letting most of our (or our parent's) generation through without an education?

"Historically no middle class" is a distortion. A lot of Asian immigrants in the last few generations came with at least a college degree (excluding refugees, etc). They might not have been rich by American standards, but they were well educated.

It's not like:
1. apply to move to U.S
2. enter U.S
3. ???
4. profit

It's like:
1. apply to move to U.S
2. enter U.S with higher education
3. profit

Anyway my point was that I think the perception of Asian privilege (or intelligence for that matter) is a bit skewed because of selective immigration.

Yeah, obviously.

Which sucks for those who come here without an education (and therefore their children will statisically have a lower chance of obtaining one).

The hope with regard to law school admissions is that Asians seem to be underrepresented in leadership positions (partners in biglaw, prominent positions in gov't, etc). Therefore hopefully this kind of reverse discrimination isn't as evident.

Asians are probably the least active on campus and contribute the smallest amount to class discussion. I've felt this both when I grew up in Asia (went to an international school) and during my classes here. The general attitude has always been 'if it isn't economically advantages, there is no point in doing it.'

I mean, that can probably be explained by population size increasing only recently. There seems to be a disproportionately high number of Asian students in top law schools already compared to the overall population (and maybe the app pool). But yeah, I'm hoping too.



I won't really dispute your broad statement... even though it's a pretty wild statement. I get the same general feeling about Asians too and it conflicts with my own life views, which makes me compelled to try 2x harder to defy that stereotype.

This fact is probably true...but main difference is that obtaining higher education China/Taiwan works in a very different way. While many Asian immigrants enter with higher education (mainly college degree), socio-economic status doesn't have as much to do with obtaining a college degree in Asian countries as it does in the US due to:

1) Much Cheaper Colleges in Asia (Cost of our books = 1 semester tuition)
2) Much greater focus on Tests (1 Entrance Test determines complete eligibility for college)

Thus a lot of these immigrants come with a college degree, but usually nothing else, no assets/ resources/ anything... My father was the son of a pastor in Taiwan and youngest out of 8 kids so he basically came to America with nothing but his college degree.

Funny, because that is actually my point

Higher education tends to mean more money in the US lol. I certainly dont mean most Asians came w/ a boatload of money, but coming for graduate school and then getting a high-paying job (due to self-selection into certain professional Asian fields) tends to eventually land you in the middle class...probably on the fast track. And you're right, a greater % of Taiwanese/Hong Kong Chinese came w/ money or 'better off' backgrounds and had education...but at the same time, Chinese and Japanese (and arguably Koreans) are the only ones that have actually reached a level of comparable parity with Whites. Southeast Asians, Philipinos, Hmong, etc. are all still heavily under-represented and many are in the working class. Also, dont forget that while the median and average income of Chinese are very high, the Chinese subgroup also experiences extreme disparity between those w/ money and those w/o...not surprisingly, they came to the US in waves; those w/ education, and those w/o.

A lot of this is in the literature...mm off the top of my head, id say Alejandro Portes and Rumbaut are good...or if you're looking for something more specific to Taiwanese Americans, Hsiang-Shui Chen comes to mind. Vivian Louie does amazing work and makes some pretty good class comparisons/distinctions.