Yale's looonnngggg application

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fidesverita
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby fidesverita » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:36 pm

Just called the admissions office. They said self-support means paid opportunities ONLY.

(I guess they can always look at your resume for other work experience but they're using this to understand whether you 'needed' to support yourself with specific jobs)

CordeliusX
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby CordeliusX » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:07 pm

fidesverita wrote:Just called the admissions office. They said self-support means paid opportunities ONLY.

(I guess they can always look at your resume for other work experience but they're using this to understand whether you 'needed' to support yourself with specific jobs)


Did they happen to mention anything about the "application help received" question?

I will probably have to send them an addendum now :evil: But I want to be honest. Still, I find they worded the question too vaguely (especially with those examples given). I would much rather prefer a question like "Did you let anyone else write/edit/read this application." But I would expect every single applicant to answer that in the affirmative. I'm still not sure why they ask they question unless they mean detailed services, admissions coaching etc. :?

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GeePee
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby GeePee » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:11 pm

CordeliusX wrote:
fidesverita wrote:Just called the admissions office. They said self-support means paid opportunities ONLY.

(I guess they can always look at your resume for other work experience but they're using this to understand whether you 'needed' to support yourself with specific jobs)


Did they happen to mention anything about the "application help received" question?

I will probably have to send them an addendum now :evil: But I want to be honest. Still, I find they worded the question too vaguely (especially with those examples given). I would much rather prefer a question like "Did you let anyone else write/edit/read this application." But I would expect every single applicant to answer that in the affirmative. I'm still not sure why they ask they question unless they mean detailed services, admissions coaching etc. :?

Why would an editing service not count?!?! This is beyond me. How is this any different from talking to a prelaw advisor about your personal statement/Y250? You (presumably) paid someone to read your essays and comment on how to make them better (grammatically or substantially, it doesn't matter). To me, this is WORSE than going to a prelaw advisor... you paid for it!

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Unitas
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby Unitas » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:28 pm

GeePee wrote:To me, this is WORSE than going to a prelaw advisor... you paid for it!


You do realize you pay for your prelaw advisor right??

In addition they are equal. Editing services are more qualified then prelaw advisors for lower undergrad schools. So in other words using an editing service for a student in a low undergrad will just make them equal with someone at a top undergrad. This comes into even more play if the undergrad doesn’t have a law school.

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GeePee
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby GeePee » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:32 pm

Kakarot wrote:
GeePee wrote:To me, this is WORSE than going to a prelaw advisor... you paid for it!


You do realize you pay for your prelaw advisor right??

In addition they are equal. Editing services are more qualified then prelaw advisors for lower undergrad schools. So in other words using an editing service for a student in a low undergrad will just make them equal with someone at a top undergrad. This comes into even more play if the undergrad doesn’t have a law school.

:roll:
One of these things you choose to pay for. The other you don't.

For the record I think that all outside sources of help are stupid (beyond friends and family which seems like common sense). They should all be disclosed and I appreciate Yale requesting such disclosure.

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Unitas
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby Unitas » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:36 pm

GeePee wrote:For the record I think that all outside sources of help are stupid (beyond friends and family which seems like common sense). They should all be disclosed and I appreciate Yale requesting such disclosure.


I agree, but it would be impossible to track. Their are students at top 10 undergrads that get a big advantage over people who are not. The only way to level that field is to allow them all to use editing services.
A Harvard undergrad will still get better editing then using a paid service. Especially for Harvard Law School.... In my opinion.

CordeliusX
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby CordeliusX » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:08 pm

GeePee wrote:For the record I think that all outside sources of help are stupid (beyond friends and family which seems like common sense). They should all be disclosed and I appreciate Yale requesting such disclosure.


Thing is, some people really don't have reliable people to ask for feedback, especially once you're out in the working world. I work right now, most people I know on a day-to-day basis do not have top-shelf writing instincts. I would not trust anyone in my life at the moment about this. I don't have highly educated friends or family... I chose to pay someone 15 bucks to glance over my essay and give me some thoughts and feedback. I personally don't count that as something "major," I find that the smart, obvious thing to do in my circumstances.

That said, I have no issue talking about it and disclosing it. But I found that question to be strangely vague. If they're going to say "did anyone help you" and leave it at that, that's one thing... but then they use as examples "prelaw advisors" and "admissions counselors," that's a step way above normal reading and feedback imho. "Preparing your application" is also vague to me. Does prepare mean proof-read the actual info, fill it out, tell you what to say, etc?

I'm going to write or call them about this, to get it done with.

duodora
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby duodora » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:36 pm

CordeliusX wrote:
GeePee wrote:For the record I think that all outside sources of help are stupid (beyond friends and family which seems like common sense). They should all be disclosed and I appreciate Yale requesting such disclosure.


Thing is, some people really don't have reliable people to ask for feedback, especially once you're out in the working world. I work right now, most people I know on a day-to-day basis do not have top-shelf writing instincts. I would not trust anyone in my life at the moment about this. I don't have highly educated friends or family... I chose to pay someone 15 bucks to glance over my essay and give me some thoughts and feedback. I personally don't count that as something "major," I find that the smart, obvious thing to do in my circumstances.

That said, I have no issue talking about it and disclosing it. But I found that question to be strangely vague. If they're going to say "did anyone help you" and leave it at that, that's one thing... but then they use as examples "prelaw advisors" and "admissions counselors," that's a step way above normal reading and feedback imho. "Preparing your application" is also vague to me. Does prepare mean proof-read the actual info, fill it out, tell you what to say, etc?

I'm going to write or call them about this, to get it done with.


Ehh just as a comment though, I asked my prelaw advisor to look over my PS, and I think she probably spent 8 minutes on it. All she said was "looks great, cut out this sentence, and send it off."

I know there's no way to hold people accountable, but it's still a nice question to ask...I that they ask about the LSAT prep classes too...

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cougarlive
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby cougarlive » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:37 pm

ankit wrote:Thought I'd jump in and do my bit to help here. I'd asked them the same questions via email and here are their exact responses -

1) Should I attach a separate addendum for each question? Or can just one document cover them all (except for the 250-word essay and Personal Statement)
- Answers to the questions can all be in one attachment.

2) Are there specific instructions for the length of answers to these questions or the formatting of the attachments?
- We have no specific instructions on the length of the answers or the formatting. In general, the documents should be double-spaced where appropriate.

3) Should question 5a also cover work experience? Also does what would be activities covered under 5c and not under 5a? I would assume that extra-curricular activities would cover everything non-academic and non-work related.
- Question 5a asks for activities during college. Question 5b asks for information regarding jobs you had in college and during vacation. Question 5c is for any activities you didn't list in 5a or 5b.

4) For Q6, do you expect an essay on my progress since graduation or just a list of activities I have been involved in? In essence should this be descriptive or more factual? I have been out of school for 4 years in a full time job.
- You can answer Question 6 with just of list of activities. You should probably add a brief description of the various jobs you have had since you left school.

Hope this is helpful to all!


Not to contradict what Yale sent you via email, but in the application itself it reads:

"5a. Significant extracurricular activities in college (and after graduation)"

Which seems to indicate you can put in your activities after graduation. Anyway, good luck--and thanks for the info!

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fidesverita
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby fidesverita » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:48 am

Kakarot wrote:
GeePee wrote:For the record I think that all outside sources of help are stupid (beyond friends and family which seems like common sense). They should all be disclosed and I appreciate Yale requesting such disclosure.


I agree, but it would be impossible to track. Their are students at top 10 undergrads that get a big advantage over people who are not. The only way to level that field is to allow them all to use editing services.
A Harvard undergrad will still get better editing then using a paid service. Especially for Harvard Law School.... In my opinion.


I don't agree. Top schools have great resources, but let's be honest.... not all prelaw advisors are created equal. Imho, they can be downright useless. And to think I paid with my tuition!

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joshhoward
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby joshhoward » Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:57 pm

wired wrote:
fidesverita wrote:Does anyone else find Yale's application a bit ridiculous?



I don't have answers to any other questions, but it is a genius move on Yale's part. The length deters applicants who are whimsically thinking about Yale, thereby saving Yale the time considering the application and responding to emails about an application from people who do not have very good odds.

And it lets them gather enough info to admit a few below-165 applicants.

Here's to Yale.

i bet yale doesn't mind too much if people with no chance (like myself) apply. the fee pretty much covers their administrative costs, and they get a much lower (and thereby impressive) acceptance rate.

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MURPH
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby MURPH » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:45 pm

I put TLS down as my help. I forget how I worded it but it was something like. "I edited essays and asked other people to edit my essay on a web site for pre-law students." Then I wrote something about taking a Testmasters course and teaching/tutoring for the LSAT for nine months before retaking it.

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EijiMiyake
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby EijiMiyake » Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:27 pm

Any idea on what to do if I don't want to provide an additional answer to one of their questions?

For example, I don't want to answer 5c (other activities that you may deem relevant), because I've slotted in everything I want in 5a and 5b. I wasn't sure if it would be better to just ignore 5c and skip to 6, or put in a "N/A".

Thanks!

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kumba84
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby kumba84 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:23 am

The info in this thread was helpful but I'm still slightly confused as to how to format the answers. Is each question supposed to be on a new page? I know Yale's email said that they can all be in the same attachment, but that doesn't address whether each question gets it own page. I wonder why their instructions weren't clearer.

heyguys
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby heyguys » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:03 am

I would suggest having one long document that answers each question in sequential order and without any extraneous materials unless specifically asked for in the application (e.g. I wouldn't suggest submitting a DS). The reason for this is that the real battle is once you get out of committee: committee is largely a numbers/smell test game, after which the top 1/4 or so are sent to faculty. While faculty don't typically like doing administrative stuff, they are very concerned with admissions and a lot of them have seemingly minor prejudices that are actually dispositive in the case of certain applicants (e.g. I know a professor who 'throws out' particular majors--is this fair? probably not, but it's the reality of the situation). I think one of these prejudices may be the structuring of the application itself--these professors look at a ton of these things, and doing such clerical work is not in the nature of academics, particularly someone accomplished enough to be at Yale. So keep that in mind--you want to make things as easy for them as you can while still giving them all the information you think they need.

Hope that helps in some way.

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existenz
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby existenz » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:11 am

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Last edited by existenz on Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

nycparalegal
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby nycparalegal » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:36 am

Just my own $.02 (anyone who knows better feel free to contradict me), but the question is "Did you recieve any assistance in preparing THIS application. If your answer is yes, please specify (e.g., prelaw advisor, admissions consultant, etc.).

Now, if it's as broad as some have suggested, that could mean everything including using TLS. If you look at the examples though, it seems very narrow like they want to know if anyone coached you through the application.

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eagles111
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Re: Yale's looonnngggg application

Postby eagles111 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:29 pm

kumba84 wrote:The info in this thread was helpful but I'm still slightly confused as to how to format the answers. Is each question supposed to be on a new page? I know Yale's email said that they can all be in the same attachment, but that doesn't address whether each question gets it own page. I wonder why their instructions weren't clearer.


The format I'm going with is
pg 1 honors and extracurriculars (?s 4 and 5)
pg 2 history since graduation
pg 3 Y250
pg 4-5 PS
pg 6 preparation and "disciplinary history" (?s 9-12)

that's pretty close to what it would break down to otherwise and it separates off what they might want to look at individually (Y250 and PS) while grouping things that kind of go together and not wasting too much paper.

Unless someone knows something better. I doubt they'll get uppity about the formatting unless it's completely stupid.




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