Why You Should Go To Law School

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General Tso
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby General Tso » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:58 pm

MTal wrote:
acdisagod wrote:It is not TTT if you would your as off at and graduate top 20% at a school like Fordham.


Have you read the employment forum? T 10 % at T14 have been shut out of OCI, what does that say about everywhere else?


(heading to rooftop of TTT)...goodbye cruel world

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:59 pm

MTal wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
I think it can be safely assumed that these people get it, at least if they're on TLS.


If you "got it" then you wouldn't even be considering going. ITE, anything below T14 is a TTT if you're paying sticker for it.


This is what I mean. You don't know anything about these people, and you're spouting their conclusion for them. The facts have been put out there (long ago). People are aware. Stop being a condescending ass. It's a personal decision.
Last edited by prezidentv8 on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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DannyJames
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby DannyJames » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:00 pm

MTal wrote:
acdisagod wrote:It is not TTT if you would your as off at and graduate top 20% at a school like Fordham.


Have you read the employment forum? T 10 % at T14 have been shut out of OCI, what does that say about everywhere else?


i think it says "you better not be a D-bag and you better know how to network"

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:01 pm

Z3RO wrote:
acdisagod wrote:"I've never criticized anyone for going to a T14. In fact, I believe when you aggregate the earnings of the students who attend T14-T7 from this year on out, it will stilll be a net loss."

It's not even close to a net loss. The average political science major makes around 40,000 dollars after graduating from college. I worked my ass off (went from 154 to 171) to get into a top 14. I have no doubt I'll be making six figures when I graduate.

Now, if you have some marketable skill, fine, maybe law school doesn't pay. But if law is your thing and you work hard and do well at a T14 or T30 you'll be fine.

haha, yeah, you're totally screwed if you're stuck going to Duke or Nortwestern for law school.




NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I THOUGHT I WAS IN FOR DE RICHEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:02 pm

GATORTIM wrote:Adam & MTal

....bottom-line is this: I'm going to law school regardless,


Yeah we know.

"You ask, What is our aim? I can answer with one word: LawSchool - LawSchool at all costs, LawSchool in spite of all terror, LawSchool however long and hard the road may be.” - GATORTIM

You're like a frikin modern day Churchill.
Last edited by MTal on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:03 pm

DannyJames wrote:
MTal wrote:
acdisagod wrote:It is not TTT if you would your as off at and graduate top 20% at a school like Fordham.


Have you read the employment forum? T 10 % at T14 have been shut out of OCI, what does that say about everywhere else?


i think it says "you better not be a D-bag and you better know how to network"


Can 45 thousand JD's network their way into 24 thousand legal jobs?

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DannyJames
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby DannyJames » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:04 pm

MTal wrote:
DannyJames wrote:
MTal wrote:
acdisagod wrote:It is not TTT if you would your as off at and graduate top 20% at a school like Fordham.


Have you read the employment forum? T 10 % at T14 have been shut out of OCI, what does that say about everywhere else?


i think it says "you better not be a D-bag and you better know how to network"


Can 45 thousand JD's network their way into 24 thousand legal jobs?


oddly enough, im only concerned with 1 of those JD's

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Jones, Dow
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby Jones, Dow » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:05 pm

Mtal, for some weird reason i'm starting to like you.

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:06 pm

DannyJames wrote:
oddly enough, im only concerned with 1 of those JD's


Yeah we know. Despite your shitacular GPA and LSAT, your mom said "UR SPEZHUL! :)" so naturally you'll be "the one".

acdisagod
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby acdisagod » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:06 pm

MTal wrote:
acdisagod wrote:It is not TTT if you would your as off at and graduate top 20% at a school like Fordham.


Have you read the employment forum? T 10 % at T14 have been shut out of OCI, what does that say about everywhere else?


Fordham:
Percent of graduates employed 9 months after graduation: 97%
Median 2008 starting salary: $160,000

Even if the numbers are wildly exaggerated, even if those numbers are even close they are still rediculosuly good. Let's say in actuality 87% have a job and the median salary is really 110,000. That would be bold motherfuckign lying and those numbers still are very impressive.

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Always Credited
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby Always Credited » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:13 pm

adamlippes wrote:
DannyJames wrote:you and Mtal must share the same crystal ball. enjoy that thought while you get passed up by the lesser people that will outwork you in the end, myself included. and calling me a bloody idiot, wow...what will i do now?


I find this very hard to believe. I'm working in NYC BigLaw, and my hours generally have to be around 2400. You are presumptively locked out of BigLaw, to speak nothing of NYC, and your hours will be a lot less (or the same, but for significantly less money). It seems, from the get go, that there will be no passing up of me by you. Not at all.


Unless, of course, he eventually runs into you one day, covers your mouth, and smashes your fucking face in behind a parked car. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd say you'd be passed up at that point.

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:15 pm

AC, you're putting your trust in the career placement stats of a FOR-PROFIT law school...gimme a break.

acdisagod
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby acdisagod » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:16 pm

I actually am not puttign trust. I said let's assume they are wildly exaggerated. Let's say they even doubled their stats. Let's say 48% are employed with an average salary of 80,000 dollars.

If you graduated in the top 20% of the class, you're still lookin pretty good.

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DannyJames
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby DannyJames » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:21 pm

MTal wrote:
DannyJames wrote:
oddly enough, im only concerned with 1 of those JD's


Yeah we know. Despite your shitacular GPA and LSAT, your mom said "UR SPEZHUL! :)" so naturally you'll be "the one".


oh no, criticizing my numbers again...ahhhhh what can i do now? oh yeah, i could show up for 2L classes

and you don't know my contacts or how well i network, gpa and lsat don't show that do they?

Z3RO
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby Z3RO » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:23 pm

Ok, it's time for three terrible words: bimodal salary distribution.

Lawyers either make 145-160k or they make 40-60k (not a typo; they make 100k less). There isn't really a middle ground.

If the median salary is in the 160k range, then you're in pretty good shape. That means at least half of the graduates land on the safe side.

I'm worried that median salaries can be fudged a bit based on how you take your sample.

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:24 pm

DannyJames wrote:
MTal wrote:
DannyJames wrote:
oddly enough, im only concerned with 1 of those JD's


Yeah we know. Despite your shitacular GPA and LSAT, your mom said "UR SPEZHUL! :)" so naturally you'll be "the one".


oh no, criticizing my numbers again...ahhhhh what can i do now? oh yeah, i could show up for 2L classes

and you don't know my contacts or how well i network, gpa and lsat don't show that do they?


You're right dude. You're a "unique snowflake" who's going to beat out all those other losers. I'm sure NO ONE else going to law schools is quite like you!

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DannyJames
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby DannyJames » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:25 pm

MTal wrote:
DannyJames wrote:
MTal wrote:
DannyJames wrote:
oddly enough, im only concerned with 1 of those JD's


Yeah we know. Despite your shitacular GPA and LSAT, your mom said "UR SPEZHUL! :)" so naturally you'll be "the one".


oh no, criticizing my numbers again...ahhhhh what can i do now? oh yeah, i could show up for 2L classes

and you don't know my contacts or how well i network, gpa and lsat don't show that do they?


You're right dude. You're a "unique snowflake" who's going to beat out all those other losers. I'm sure NO ONE else going to law schools is quite like you!


FINALLY you get it

Edit: mtal, your attitude towards law school is your own view and i respect that. but what do you have against anyone believing in themselves. if someone has to take the job, why can't it be me? you unfortunately see the world through your jaded shades, and to be honest, your attitude is quite telling of why you don't believe anyone can overcome the odds. afterall, you certainly didn't
Last edited by DannyJames on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Always Credited
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby Always Credited » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:27 pm

Z3RO wrote:Ok, it's time for three terrible words: bimodal salary distribution.

Lawyers either make 145-160k or they make 40-60k (not a typo; they make 100k less). There isn't really a middle ground.

If the median salary is in the 160k range, then you're in pretty good shape. That means at least half of the graduates land on the safe side.

I'm worried that median salaries can be fudged a bit based on how you take your sample.


They can be, and they are. Especially at worse institutions.

This argument/discussion doesn't really concern me at all, I'm just here for the lulz. I'm on the T14 or uber-regional w/ money plan.

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:38 pm

DannyJames wrote:
if someone has to take the job, why can't it be me?


Because you haven't demonstrated a propensity for excellence in the chief factors which determine whether or not you'll actually get one, your GPA and LSAT. If it COULD be you, you would have done better in those two categories. Barring some incredible life change, you will likely graduate law school in the exact position which your GPA and LSAT predicted you would (i.e., not a good place).


but what do you have against anyone believing in themselves.


I don't have anything against "believing in yourself". In fact, I believe self-confidence and motivation are crucial to success at anything. However, there come a point where confidence and self-assurance turn into wide-eyed optimism, arrogance and dilusion. For example, I am a good chessplayer, but I know almost for a fact that I will almost certainly never become a Grand Master. I still have faith in my skills, but I also know where my limitations are. I don't believe, however, that you know where YOURS are.

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Always Credited
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby Always Credited » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:47 pm

MTal wrote:
Because you haven't demonstrated a propensity for excellence in the chief factors which determine whether or not you'll actually get one, your GPA and LSAT. If it COULD be you, you would have done better in those two categories. Barring some incredible life change, you will likely graduate law school in the exact position which your GPA and LSAT predicted you would (i.e., not a good place).


What about a school like Cooley, where people with average, and sometimes below-average, LSAT/GPA's are actually above the 75th percentiles? In that case the predictions, as you say, would be for him to graduate in a very good position (from the school of course, probably not in life).

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j2d3
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby j2d3 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:49 pm

This thread got boring when MTal started weighing in.

How long can the back and forth last?

I could make a chatterbot indistinguishable from MTal, but I won't because it would be really fucking boring.

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Always Credited
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby Always Credited » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:52 pm

j2d3 wrote:This thread got boring when MTal started weighing in.

How long can the back and forth last?

I could make a chatterbot indistinguishable from MTal, but I won't because it would be really fucking boring.


I give the guy credit for continually dispensing knowledge that is considered to be, to many of us, commonplace almost to the point of being droll. There are, however, new people logging in every day who may in fact be disillusioned and/or uninformed. These people could be benefitting a great deal from this type of discussion and, consequently, from MTaL's advice.

keg411
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby keg411 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:55 pm

Z3RO wrote:Ok, it's time for three terrible words: bimodal salary distribution.

Lawyers either make 145-160k or they make 40-60k (not a typo; they make 100k less). There isn't really a middle ground.

If the median salary is in the 160k range, then you're in pretty good shape. That means at least half of the graduates land on the safe side.

I'm worried that median salaries can be fudged a bit based on how you take your sample.


They START OUT at $40-60k. 5-10 years down the road it's typically $80-100k for most small-midlaw. Let's get that straight too. YOU WILL NOT BE MAKING $40k YOUR WHOLE LIFE. The real idiots are the ones who think they can't go anywhere even if they start out at the bottom. People just want to be handed $160k out of school with no work and it's a ridiculous attitude to have.
Last edited by keg411 on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DannyJames
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby DannyJames » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:57 pm

MTal wrote:
DannyJames wrote:
if someone has to take the job, why can't it be me?


Because you haven't demonstrated a propensity for excellence in the chief factors which determine whether or not you'll actually get one, your GPA and LSAT. If it COULD be you, you would have done better in those two categories. Barring some incredible life change, you will likely graduate law school in the exact position which your GPA and LSAT predicted you would (i.e., not a good place).


but what do you have against anyone believing in themselves.


I don't have anything against "believing in yourself". In fact, I believe self-confidence and motivation are crucial to success at anything. However, there come a point where confidence and self-assurance turn into wide-eyed optimism, arrogance and dilusion. For example, I am a good chessplayer, but I know almost for a fact that I will almost certainly never become a Grand Master. I still have faith in my skills, but I also know where my limitations are. I don't believe, however, that you know where YOURS are.


you are actually correct, i haven't hit my limitations yet, not even on the LSAT. i was a completely different person in undergrad, and i do not see my GPA as an indication of anything other than what i scored in undergrad. i am dealing with the situation on what schools i can attend, however that in no way bears on me as a person or my abilities.

and what makes you think i am not in a good place now? if everyone spent their lives living by "well you won't do this because you're not tall enough, or fast enough, or have a high undergrad GPA" it sure would make for a boring existence.

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:58 pm

Always Credited wrote:
What about...


Well that's the standard 0L outcry whenever I try and inject some reality into their sunshine and gumdrops view of law school. "But what about", "But what if I" etc... usually it's some variation on "I weel WERK HARD!" or "NetWerKING is KEE!" and my response is always... well yeah, but the odds of that happening are against you. "What if" or "what about" always imply a long shot. No one ever says I will graduate in the middle and my future as a lawyer will be uncertain, yet statistically at least half of a class will be in that position or worse.




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