Why You Should Go To Law School

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:52 pm

^^Yeah I get it, we're all unique snowflakes......just like everyone else.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:52 pm

MTal wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
Haven wrote:MTal- What do you think would have happened if you stayed in LS? Do you ever regret leaving?


Of course he does, why else would he be roaming the forums of TLS


Right, I really regret the opportunity of going tens of thousands more in debt for the "opportunity" of a small chance to some day work in shitlaw. Good lord, what WAS I thinking!


Either LS was not the right decision for you to begin with or you had some mind-blowing revelation within a few hundred days of your 1st LS class. Sad thing is that you genuinely feel that the LS system failed you.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:56 pm

adamlippes wrote:MTal, why waste your time talking to people like Gator? He's obviously not going to attend a top law school, will encounter dismal job prospects. and will have an asston of money to pay off. We're trying to help him out, but he really doesn't want our assistance, so why bother? Let him do what he wants.


Doubtful....let's talk in five years

adamlippes
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby adamlippes » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:03 pm

...
Last edited by adamlippes on Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:06 pm

adamlippes wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
adamlippes wrote:MTal, why waste your time talking to people like Gator? He's obviously not going to attend a top law school, will encounter dismal job prospects. and will have an asston of money to pay off. We're trying to help him out, but he really doesn't want our assistance, so why bother? Let him do what he wants.


Doubtful....let's talk in five years


Hate to break it to you, but neither you nor Danny is going to be attending a top law school (if your profiles are at all indicative of what you're applying with); I'd take your most realistic shots at law school, look at the NLJ/AmLaw stats, seeing where this puts you, and start rubbing some prayer beads.

I will say, though, that if you land a full scholarship somewhere, then just scratch what I'm saying. Otherwise, I laugh at the pathetic financial decisions that you both are making. But then again, if you had the ounce of reason it took to consider your options a little more thoroughly, maybe you'd be competitive for the top law schools in the first place. Hmm...


Well...yeah. Right?

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General Tso
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby General Tso » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:07 pm

adamlippes wrote:Otherwise, I laugh at the pathetic financial decisions that you both are making.


How do you know this is a pathetic financial decision for him? Maybe he can only expect to earn 30k per year without a law degree. Maybe he only needs to borrow 40k to finance his education. if he can increase his salary by 20-30k per year (a 50-60k legal salary is not unheard of out of a T100 school, after all), then it might actually be a good financial decision.

Why do you assume that everybody is taking out 200k loans only to get a 40k job? Like I said, everybody's situation is different. You can't unilaterally declare a non-T14 school to be a terrible investment.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:08 pm

swheat wrote:
adamlippes wrote:Otherwise, I laugh at the pathetic financial decisions that you both are making.


How do you know this is a pathetic financial decision for him? Maybe he can only expect to earn 30k per year without a law degree. Maybe he only needs to borrow 40k to finance his education. if he can increase his salary by 20-30k per year (a 50-60k legal salary is not unheard of out of a T100 school, after all), then it might actually be a good financial decision.

Why do you assume that everybody is taking out 200k loans only to get a 40k job? Like I said, everybody's situation is different. You can't unilaterally declare a non-T14 school to be a terrible investment.


Getting warmer. This is going in the right direction.

adamlippes
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby adamlippes » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:09 pm

...
Last edited by adamlippes on Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:12 pm

LOL!

GATORTIM wrote:
3 now...I'm a 157, but convinced I made some sort of bubbling error and plan to slay this thing in Dec. I don't doubt at all that the majority of TLSers are highly intelligent and extremely capable, but c'mon, we do hear 172 tossed around here like its the soup of the day. I don't have empirical evidence to support my belief, but I find it highly unlikely that every single person that scored in the 99th percentile has also created a TLS account and posts here.


From: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85682

So apparently the guy who "succeeds at every single thing he's ever done" couldn't even swing a 160 on the most important standardized test in his life! ROFL! Oh yeah, I like where this is going...

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:16 pm

adamlippes wrote:
Why do you assume that everybody is taking out 200k loans only to get a 40k job? Like I said, everybody's situation is different. You can't unilaterally declare a non-T14 school to be a terrible investment.


The vast majority will take out loans in the 6 figures. Substantiating this is the fact that lower ranked schools charge pretty much the same as top schools, and the scholarships they give are usually tied to some sort of GPA requirement that isn't a foregone conclusion for the student.


But are we not (at least on here) all very aware that mucho debt for lackluster job prospects at low-ranked schools is a bad idea? Even if one makes that decision to attend regardless, is that not their own decision to make, even against the odds? I'm just unsure what the point of the continued rants is. High debt + low rank = uh-oh. We all get it. At least I think so.

Z3RO
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby Z3RO » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:18 pm

Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls.

Mtal is gloomy. Stop poking him with a stick. It's retarded.

adamlippes
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby adamlippes » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:18 pm

...
Last edited by adamlippes on Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:19 pm

Z3RO wrote:Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls.

Mtal is gloomy. Stop poking him with a stick. It's [strike]retarded[/strike] kinda fun.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:29 pm

adamlippes wrote:Hate to break it to you, but neither you nor Danny is going to be attending a top law school (if your profiles are at all indicative of what you're applying with); I'd take your most realistic shots at law school, look at the NLJ/AmLaw stats, seeing where this puts you, and start rubbing some prayer beads.

I will say, though, that if you land a full scholarship somewhere, then just scratch what I'm saying. Otherwise, I laugh at the pathetic financial decisions that you both are making. But then again, if you had the ounce of reason it took to consider your options a little more thoroughly, maybe you'd be competitive for the top law schools in the first place. Hmm...


I love how people like you look at a GPA/LSAT combo and make assumptions about somebody's entire life. WTF difference does it matter if I go to a T2 school?!? How much experience do you have with anything, because by your post, I would be willing to bet that you have a modest GPA and probably studied your ass off for the LSAT and earned a top score. I'm sure that you posted a "chance me" on here and have blanketed the T-14 with applications and you will probably get some acceptances. I'm sure that you will probably go to a better LS than I will and I'm sure your parents will be really happy for you. You probably will even pull a 20-25% scholly somewhere and will exit your "top" LS with a smile on your face and a little bit of student-loan debt (which will be just as green as mine). I would even be willing to bet that your 1st job out of LS will be higher paying than mine; afterall, I'm going to be relegated to a lowly t-2 or, gasp, t-3.

It will be at this point that our opportunity curves will begin come closer together. It will be at this point when you come to the realization that there were quite a few things you read on TLS that were BS. It will be at this point (about 5 years after LS when you become burnt out from your "BigLaw" job) when your smart-ass posts and uber-elitism will get you nowhere but tossed.

I can live with attending a T-2 LS (and I assure you my decision is both conscious and calculated) and there is a very real possibility that you will find yourself sitting at a table as my equal or possibly a subordinate thinking to yourself "But, but I went to a top law school and this GatorGuy didn't"

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GATORTIM
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:31 pm

MTal wrote:LOL!

GATORTIM wrote:
3 now...I'm a 157, but convinced I made some sort of bubbling error and plan to slay this thing in Dec. I don't doubt at all that the majority of TLSers are highly intelligent and extremely capable, but c'mon, we do hear 172 tossed around here like its the soup of the day. I don't have empirical evidence to support my belief, but I find it highly unlikely that every single person that scored in the 99th percentile has also created a TLS account and posts here.


From: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85682

So apparently the guy who "succeeds at every single thing he's ever done" couldn't even swing a 160 on the most important standardized test in his life! ROFL! Oh yeah, I like where this is going...


Re-taking in Dec....stay tuned. The bolded part is incorrect.

adamlippes
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby adamlippes » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:34 pm

...
Last edited by adamlippes on Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:35 pm

MTal wrote:LOL!

GATORTIM wrote:
3 now...I'm a 157, but convinced I made some sort of bubbling error and plan to slay this thing in Dec. I don't doubt at all that the majority of TLSers are highly intelligent and extremely capable, but c'mon, we do hear 172 tossed around here like its the soup of the day. I don't have empirical evidence to support my belief, but I find it highly unlikely that every single person that scored in the 99th percentile has also created a TLS account and posts here.


From: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85682

So apparently the guy who "succeeds at every single thing he's ever done" couldn't even swing a 160 on the most important standardized test in his life! ROFL! Oh yeah, I like where this is going...


Dude...it's a standardized test, cmon....let's not jerk off the LSAT.

SomethingCorprt
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby SomethingCorprt » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:39 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:$.02

AHHHHHHHH THE LEGAL SKY IS FALLING RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!




LOL!

On a side note swheat I've really enjoyed what you've been posting here, kudos to you. Law school kool-aid... great!

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GATORTIM
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:47 pm

adamlippes wrote:Gator, it's funny that you were willing to bet so much on your estimations of who I am. In fact, I'm about half-way through law school. I do have a BigLaw job lined up, but I'm unsure whether I'll get burned out; and while there are certainly many people who do burn out, they are vastly outnumbered by the people who don't.

And aside from that, even if one did burn out in BigLaw, people know that one of the benefits of going into BigLaw is the exit-options. I doubt anything you'll do at UF and get from UF, and exit from at UF, will give you the same exit-options as someone exiting from Sullivan Cromwell.


Congrats on LS and the position you have lined up. BTW I tend to bet low until I get into the groove ;)

I'm not sure about the references to UF, I did go there for UG, but graduated in '03, so yeah, if I were to get into a time capsule and go back to when I was a 22 year old college grad and compete for my 1st job against a candidate from Sullivan Cromwell, I'm willing to bet I would lose. But, I would probably ask myself after the interview, "why in the hell was that guy from Sullivan Cromwell competing against a 22 year old with a liberal arts degree"

Today, I am 28 years old and have no interest in BigLaw at this point in my life. It appears that we have different short-term plans for our legal education and there is nothing wrong with that.

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MTal
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby MTal » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:52 pm

GATORTIM wrote: It appears that we have different short-term plans for our legal education and there is nothing wrong with that.


What exactly are your "short term plans"? There are only 2-3 good options (extremely difficult to get, ITE) coming out of law school: Biglaw or Prosecution as ADA. What's left is shitlaw PD, ID, PI. Of course you could always go solo....good luck with THAT.

Edit: Also forget about going in house or being a GC of any kind. All those guys have 10 + years of top notch experience.

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DannyJames
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby DannyJames » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:16 pm

adamlippes wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
adamlippes wrote:MTal, why waste your time talking to people like Gator? He's obviously not going to attend a top law school, will encounter dismal job prospects. and will have an asston of money to pay off. We're trying to help him out, but he really doesn't want our assistance, so why bother? Let him do what he wants.


Doubtful....let's talk in five years


Hate to break it to you, but neither you nor Danny is going to be attending a top law school (if your profiles are at all indicative of what you're applying with); I'd take your most realistic shots at law school, look at the NLJ/AmLaw stats, seeing where this puts you, and start rubbing some prayer beads.

I will say, though, that if you land a full scholarship somewhere, then just scratch what I'm saying. Otherwise, I laugh at the pathetic financial decisions that you both are making. But then again, if you had the ounce of reason it took to consider your options a little more thoroughly, maybe you'd be competitive for the top law schools in the first place. Hmm...


Yes, i didn't do as well as i should have in undergrad, so i don't have an ounce of reason to consider things correctly. right! i have NEVER said ill be attending a top law school. i make no excuses for that time in my life (UG), and i am doing everything i can to improve on my LSAT this go around. regardless of that, i will go to school somewhere, and i will study and work my tail off. after that, i will use my experience to take the next step, whatever it may be. thank you for your interest in my finances, which you know nothing about

keg411
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby keg411 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:18 pm

What is so wrong with insurance defense/family law/real estate/small law whatever? Just because you don't make big $$$$ right away doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad option for everyone. In about 5-10 years you can make around 80-100k (maybe more, likely not less unless you are horrid at your job), even if you start at 40-60k (obviously it depends where you work). As long as you don't borrow a disgusting amount, who cares if you do small law? It isn't a death sentence, it's a job and a decent one at that. Law is ONLY a bi-modal salary when you get out of school, not 10-20-30 years down the road.

To repeat: "BigLaw or Bust" is a dangerous attitude to have. Personally I think making $160k out of school without having ever worked is completely ridiculous. Going to a top school doesn't even guarantee it any more (ask my sister's no-offer'd friends; that's even worse than not getting a SA job... that's having one, thinking your set for life and then getting blindsided).

Like I said previously, manage your debt carefully and you'll be fine wherever you go (be it T14 or TTTT).

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UFMatt
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby UFMatt » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:37 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
adamlippes wrote:Gator, it's funny that you were willing to bet so much on your estimations of who I am. In fact, I'm about half-way through law school. I do have a BigLaw job lined up, but I'm unsure whether I'll get burned out; and while there are certainly many people who do burn out, they are vastly outnumbered by the people who don't.

And aside from that, even if one did burn out in BigLaw, people know that one of the benefits of going into BigLaw is the exit-options. I doubt anything you'll do at UF and get from UF, and exit from at UF, will give you the same exit-options as someone exiting from Sullivan Cromwell.


Congrats on LS and the position you have lined up. BTW I tend to bet low until I get into the groove ;)

I'm not sure about the references to UF, I did go there for UG, but graduated in '03, so yeah, if I were to get into a time capsule and go back to when I was a 22 year old college grad and compete for my 1st job against a candidate from Sullivan Cromwell, I'm willing to bet I would lose. But, I would probably ask myself after the interview, "why in the hell was that guy from Sullivan Cromwell competing against a 22 year old with a liberal arts degree"

Today, I am 28 years old and have no interest in BigLaw at this point in my life. It appears that we have different short-term plans for our legal education and there is nothing wrong with that.


As a fellow Gator (and '03 graduate), I'd have to suggest ignoring the trolls. I've known plenty of people doing very well (big law, successful small firms, etc.) with JDs from Florida schools. I suspect you'll network better than they will if their posts are any indication of their personalities. You will do just fine. Good luck with the December LSAT.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:40 pm

UFMatt wrote:As a fellow Gator (and '03 graduate), I'd have to suggest ignoring the trolls. I've known plenty of people doing very well (big law, successful small firms, etc.) with JDs from Florida schools. I suspect you'll network better than they will if their posts are any indication of their personalities. You will do just fine. Good luck with the December LSAT.


THX.....Best of luck to you too! GO GATORS!

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DannyJames
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Re: Why You Should Go To Law School

Postby DannyJames » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:51 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
UFMatt wrote:As a fellow Gator (and '03 graduate), I'd have to suggest ignoring the trolls. I've known plenty of people doing very well (big law, successful small firms, etc.) with JDs from Florida schools. I suspect you'll network better than they will if their posts are any indication of their personalities. You will do just fine. Good luck with the December LSAT.


THX.....Best of luck to you too! GO GATORS!


what...no Spartan love?




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