If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

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williestark
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby williestark » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:21 am

wadeny wrote:Pretty sure Kohinoor is right. ED is a binding contract and you can withdraw, but you cannot simply choose to attend somewhere else. ED is a big decision that many TLSers this cycle need to treat more seriously; it really should be seen as an option to apply to your top choice school, and not as a tactic to purely boost your odds at a random reach school. That's why it always confounds me how posters list a bunch of schools asking for their chances and want to know where to ED.


This.

Overuse of ED seems to be the next step in the ongoing law achool admissions arms race.

JR14
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby JR14 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:17 am

I thought a certain school was my top choice, so I applied ED and was accepted there. But now I'm getting cold feet. Do I have any options for getting out of it? What if I just don't pay my deposit?

Going to this school wouldn't be the worst thing since I was in love with it initially. However, committing was still a mistake for me. So please let me know if I can do anything about it, but please don't lecture me!

02082010
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby 02082010 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:19 am

JR14 wrote:I thought a certain school was my top choice, so I applied ED and was accepted there. But now I'm getting cold feet. Do I have any options for getting out of it? What if I just don't pay my deposit?

Going to this school wouldn't be the worst thing since I was in love with it initially. However, committing was still a mistake for me. So please let me know if I can do anything about it, but please don't lecture me!


flame.

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PDaddy
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby PDaddy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:28 am

uknowme wrote:Is there a time period upon hearing of your early decision acceptance during which you can withdraw from the school?


Avoid applying ED to a school that isn't truly your first choice. If you don't have a first choice, don't apply ED. If you have more than one first choice, and there's truly a tie between them, apply ED to either the highest ranked school or best located school you can. That way you don't make a bad ED choice.

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existenz
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby existenz » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:58 am

If you apply ED to a school, then decide for whatever reason that you do not want to attend a different school, you are pretty much stuck if they have accepted you.

If they haven't accepted you yet, perhaps you could sabotage your app by submitting a revised PS with a bunch of grammatical errors and rambling run-on sentences. Or maybe get someone who hates you to write a really terrible LOR and send it to that school only.

But if a school is not really your number one choice, don't ED.

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ShibaDan
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby ShibaDan » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:21 am

williestark wrote:
wadeny wrote:Pretty sure Kohinoor is right. ED is a binding contract and you can withdraw, but you cannot simply choose to attend somewhere else. ED is a big decision that many TLSers this cycle need to treat more seriously; it really should be seen as an option to apply to your top choice school, and not as a tactic to purely boost your odds at a random reach school. That's why it always confounds me how posters list a bunch of schools asking for their chances and want to know where to ED.


This.

Overuse of ED seems to be the next step in the ongoing law achool admissions arms race.


+1 especially with the UVA thing this year

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aggro
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby aggro » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:18 pm

JR14 wrote:Do I have any options for getting out of it? What if I just don't pay my deposit?


Since you were accepted, you have two options: attend, or don't attend. However if you choose not to attend, you have to wait until next cycle to apply and enroll at another school.

JR14
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby JR14 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:40 pm

If I don't go to my ED school this year and instead apply to schools next year, will schools have any way of knowing about this?

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HiLine
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby HiLine » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:19 am

Read the ED contract and start thinking like a lawyer.

JR14
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby JR14 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:34 pm

Thanks for that insightful adivce, but the contract does not specifically say whether or not the ED applicant's name will be provided to other law schools for the following admissions cycle.

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vanwinkle
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:39 pm

JR14 wrote:Thanks for that insightful adivce, but the contract does not specifically say whether or not the ED applicant's name will be provided to other law schools for the following admissions cycle.

If you get a credit card, use it, and then decide you're not going to pay it, do they tell all the other credit card companies what you did, or do they just let you get away with screwing them over?

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rockchalk86
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby rockchalk86 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:55 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
JR14 wrote:Thanks for that insightful adivce, but the contract does not specifically say whether or not the ED applicant's name will be provided to other law schools for the following admissions cycle.

If you get a credit card, use it, and then decide you're not going to pay it, do they tell all the other credit card companies what you did, or do they just let you get away with screwing them over?


What? That is not how it works. If you get accepted ED but have to reject it for some reason, you will not be penalized the next cycle (assuming you don't try to get into another school that year after turning down the ED acceptance). As long as you wait until the next cycle, you should be fine.

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vanwinkle
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:02 pm

rockchalk86 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
JR14 wrote:Thanks for that insightful adivce, but the contract does not specifically say whether or not the ED applicant's name will be provided to other law schools for the following admissions cycle.

If you get a credit card, use it, and then decide you're not going to pay it, do they tell all the other credit card companies what you did, or do they just let you get away with screwing them over?


What? That is not how it works. If you get accepted ED but have to reject it for some reason, you will not be penalized the next cycle (assuming you don't try to get into another school that year after turning down the ED acceptance). As long as you wait until the next cycle, you should be fine.

If you sign an ED contract you commit to attending. See the Columbia ED contract for an example: http://www.law.columbia.edu/null/download?&exclusive=filemgr.download&file_id=153614 It says, in bold letters, "If accepted under this Plan, I will matriculate at Columbia Law School." ("Matriculate at" means enroll at or attend.) It also says that you will initiate no new law school applications once learning of acceptance at Columbia ED. It doesn't say for the current cycle, it just says no new applications, period.

If you don't attend Columbia, you violate the contract. It's pretty clear and straightforward. I don't see anything that binds you to attend for the cycle you were accepted, so if you need to delay enrollment you could certainly defer, but they're not going to let you go so you can apply to another school. I don't see why they wouldn't notify other schools that you're contractually bound to attend there, either. Schools communicate a lot and do share ED lists.

The contract is rather clear and blunt. The fact that they put the "I will matriculate at Columbia Law School" in bold like that indicates they're very serious about it. You would essentially be beginning your legal career by violating a legally binding contract with a legal institution. Not a wise move.

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rockchalk86
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby rockchalk86 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:15 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
rockchalk86 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
JR14 wrote:Thanks for that insightful adivce, but the contract does not specifically say whether or not the ED applicant's name will be provided to other law schools for the following admissions cycle.

If you get a credit card, use it, and then decide you're not going to pay it, do they tell all the other credit card companies what you did, or do they just let you get away with screwing them over?


What? That is not how it works. If you get accepted ED but have to reject it for some reason, you will not be penalized the next cycle (assuming you don't try to get into another school that year after turning down the ED acceptance). As long as you wait until the next cycle, you should be fine.

If you sign an ED contract you commit to attending. See the Columbia ED contract for an example: http://www.law.columbia.edu/null/download?&exclusive=filemgr.download&file_id=153614 It says, in bold letters, "If accepted under this Plan, I will matriculate at Columbia Law School." ("Matriculate at" means enroll at or attend.) It also says that you will initiate no new law school applications once learning of acceptance at Columbia ED. It doesn't say for the current cycle, it just says no new applications, period.

If you don't attend Columbia, you violate the contract. It's pretty clear and straightforward. I don't see anything that binds you to attend for the cycle you were accepted, so if you need to delay enrollment you could certainly defer, but they're not going to let you go so you can apply to another school. I don't see why they wouldn't notify other schools that you're contractually bound to attend there, either. Schools communicate a lot and do share ED lists.

The contract is rather clear and blunt. The fact that they put the "I will matriculate at Columbia Law School" in bold like that indicates they're very serious about it. You would essentially be beginning your legal career by violating a legally binding contract with a legal institution. Not a wise move.


I guess I stand corrected. But I am sure that if certain circumstances arose (parents who were going to pay die in a car accident) they would understand and not black ball you from law. Credit card companies would not be so kind :wink:

JR14
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby JR14 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:21 pm

Thanks for the responses guys. I have heard conflicting things about this. I really appreciate all of the feedback and realize that, although I don't know for certain if it could hurt me, I'd definitely be running a huge risk by reneging on my ED obligation.

r6_philly
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby r6_philly » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:27 am

I beg to differ. The ED contract is only bound to the application for Fall 2010 cycle since it is a component of the Fall 2010 application. When fall 2011 starts there will be a new contract superceeding this current one. The ED is bound to admission offers, and since your admission offer will not be valid past Fall 2010, you cannot except 2010 ED contract to be binding to the 2011 admission cycle. You will need to enter a new contract for the next cycle. I am just a 0L but this how all of our business contracts have worked. When no expiration date was specified in the contract our binding contracts remains valid only for the term of our product (in the case of admission should only be the current cycle). I could be wrong but I don't see how this can be binding on next year.

Consider:
1. if you don't honor your admission offer (by not sending deposit or enrolling), your offer will be revoked. How can they bind you to an offer that is no longer valid

2. in the contract, the specified penalty is "Failure by admitted Early Decision applicants to honor
their aforementioned commitments will result in Columbia revoking its offer of admission." So the consequence of breaking the contract is to lose your offer only. People/businesses break contracts all the time. You just lose what you are supposed to lose. You can technically have your offer revoked, then initiate new applications and be accepted elsewhere (the odds of succeeding is very low obviously being so late by then)

The only penalty you will suffer under this contract language will be handed out only by CLS. I don't see how it hurts you elsewhere other than the fact that you broke a contract.

I have not and will not apply ED, so please don't think I am unethical or something, our business deals with non-compete and other similar issues so just making observations

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adameus
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby adameus » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:57 pm

r6_philly wrote:I beg to differ. The ED contract is only bound to the application for Fall 2010 cycle since it is a component of the Fall 2010 application. When fall 2011 starts there will be a new contract superceeding this current one. The ED is bound to admission offers, and since your admission offer will not be valid past Fall 2010, you cannot except 2010 ED contract to be binding to the 2011 admission cycle. You will need to enter a new contract for the next cycle. I am just a 0L but this how all of our business contracts have worked. When no expiration date was specified in the contract our binding contracts remains valid only for the term of our product (in the case of admission should only be the current cycle). I could be wrong but I don't see how this can be binding on next year.

Consider:
1. if you don't honor your admission offer (by not sending deposit or enrolling), your offer will be revoked. How can they bind you to an offer that is no longer valid

2. in the contract, the specified penalty is "Failure by admitted Early Decision applicants to honor
their aforementioned commitments will result in Columbia revoking its offer of admission." So the consequence of breaking the contract is to lose your offer only. People/businesses break contracts all the time. You just lose what you are supposed to lose. You can technically have your offer revoked, then initiate new applications and be accepted elsewhere (the odds of succeeding is very low obviously being so late by then)

The only penalty you will suffer under this contract language will be handed out only by CLS. I don't see how it hurts you elsewhere other than the fact that you broke a contract.

I have not and will not apply ED, so please don't think I am unethical or something, our business deals with non-compete and other similar issues so just making observations


your reasoning makes sense to me. Not sure about the legality of it....

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vanwinkle
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:56 pm

r6_philly wrote:I beg to differ. The ED contract is only bound to the application for Fall 2010 cycle since it is a component of the Fall 2010 application. When fall 2011 starts there will be a new contract superceeding this current one. The ED is bound to admission offers, and since your admission offer will not be valid past Fall 2010, you cannot except 2010 ED contract to be binding to the 2011 admission cycle. You will need to enter a new contract for the next cycle. I am just a 0L but this how all of our business contracts have worked. When no expiration date was specified in the contract our binding contracts remains valid only for the term of our product (in the case of admission should only be the current cycle). I could be wrong but I don't see how this can be binding on next year.

Consider:
1. if you don't honor your admission offer (by not sending deposit or enrolling), your offer will be revoked. How can they bind you to an offer that is no longer valid

2. in the contract, the specified penalty is "Failure by admitted Early Decision applicants to honor
their aforementioned commitments will result in Columbia revoking its offer of admission." So the consequence of breaking the contract is to lose your offer only. People/businesses break contracts all the time. You just lose what you are supposed to lose. You can technically have your offer revoked, then initiate new applications and be accepted elsewhere (the odds of succeeding is very low obviously being so late by then)

The only penalty you will suffer under this contract language will be handed out only by CLS. I don't see how it hurts you elsewhere other than the fact that you broke a contract.

I have not and will not apply ED, so please don't think I am unethical or something, our business deals with non-compete and other similar issues so just making observations

1) Your offer being revoked does not free you from further penalties or action. It does not say "your offer will be revoked but we will take no future action and you are free to enroll elsewhere after your offer is revoked." In fact that reading is highly illogical because it means there are no teeth to the contract. Why wouldn't someone apply to Columbia ED and also to Harvard? If they get into Harvard and breach the Columbia ED contract, there's no punishment to them under your theory. This brings me to point 2:

2) Schools do share lists of ED acceptances. Other schools will be made aware you formed a binding ED contract and they'll be able to figure out you breached it if you keep trying to enroll there. This is assuming Columbia doesn't directly notify those schools that you breached a contract with them.

3) You're right that if you do something to get your offer revoked, you no longer have a binding contract with them. You've breached and your relationship with the school is pretty much over. However, what you're failing to consider is that the school can notify other law schools that you breached the contract. The Columbia contract specifically states that they will share names of accepted ED candidates with peer schools. Yes, you can probably find a less prestigious school that will not care or not be told, but the top law schools all communicate regularly and they all care.

4) The plain language does not indicate that the contract is only meant to apply for the current cycle. I concede that you may be correct that it will be interpreted to only apply to the current cycle, but that's only a possibility and not something you should be asserting nearly so strongly without proof it is normally interpreted that way. That's very dangerous to rely on because if you're wrong the person that trusts your statements has destroyed their chances at a proper legal education.

Also, your interpretation is kind of weak. It only applies to the current cycle because if accepted you can only attend in that cycle? That's simply not true. You can defer matriculation after being accepted and start in a later year. In that sense the contract can clearly apply to future cycles; if you need to defer and attend in a later year they can give you the option of deferring and still keep you within the terms of the contract.

The plain language of the contract indicates an intent to enroll at Columbia, period, and that th school will enforce this by sharing contract information to other schools. Anyone who thinks they can simply blow off a contract like this with no repercussions at other schools is incredibly naive.

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HiLine
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby HiLine » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:02 pm

Does anyone else find ED contracts too simplistic and unrealistic in general?

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vanwinkle
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:48 pm

HiLine wrote:Does anyone else find ED contracts too simplistic and unrealistic in general?

You'd prefer a contract that's more complicated??

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angiej
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby angiej » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:15 pm

What if someone submitted an app early decision but out of nowhere received a full tuition scholarship even before the ed'd school ever even began reviewing the file? Should such an applicant all the ed school and ask that they be considered under regular decision instead? Would this hurt the applicant's chances of being admitted?

CanadianWolf
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:23 pm

Yes. Withdraw the ED supplement & ask to be considered only as a RD applicant. I know of many similiar situations with respect to students applying to colleges/universities who have done this.
P.S. Make sure to do so in writing & keep a copy.

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angiej
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby angiej » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:29 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Yes. Withdraw the ED supplement & ask to be considered only as a RD applicant. I know of many similiar situations with respect to students applying to colleges/universities who have done this.
P.S. Make sure to do so in writing & keep a copy.


Did this at all hurt their chances of being accepted? This school is still my number 1 choice - but it will be hard for me to fathom paying sticker for it knowing I could have gone to another school that I also like (for free).

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tea_drinker
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby tea_drinker » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:35 pm

angiej wrote:Did this at all hurt their chances of being accepted? This school is still my number 1 choice - but it will be hard for me to fathom paying sticker for it knowing I could have gone to another school that I also like (for free).


Depend on how genuine your reasons are and how forgiven ad com at a respective school are.

This may sound nitpicking, but if you send such letter, date them (and I will have it noterized just in case).

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angiej
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Re: If accepted early decision, can you withdraw?

Postby angiej » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:39 pm

tbldc2009 wrote:
angiej wrote:Did this at all hurt their chances of being accepted? This school is still my number 1 choice - but it will be hard for me to fathom paying sticker for it knowing I could have gone to another school that I also like (for free).


Depend on how genuine your reasons are and how forgiven ad com at a respective school are.

This may sound nitpicking, but if you send such letter, date them (and I will have it noterized just in case).


Wow, I was thinking of just sending an email. I don't want it to see "too" formal, but yet again I want to cover my butt.

I actually called the school last week to ask and the response was that it wouldn't hurt my chances since my file hasn't been reviewed yet and they would just place a note on my file. I reaffirmed its still my first choice school. But my fear is that while the admissions staff person I spoke to may think its not a big deal, I'm worried about the adcomm thinking I'm a total flake that couldn't make up her mind. In actuality, I was just taken by surprise by this other offer and that previously, I never imagined not wanting to go this school that I ed'd to.




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