Resume Margins

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
Carnertine
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:07 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby Carnertine » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Georgiana wrote:
Carnertine wrote:Oh, I just remember seeing in the movie Annapolis how James Franco got the Governor/Senator to write him a letter of recommendation and he got into the place he wanted. I didn't know it worked this way.

Movies lie.


Umm you can't tell me that KIDS was a lie that shit was real yo

User avatar
Georgiana
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:42 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby Georgiana » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:33 pm

Carnertine wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
Carnertine wrote:Oh, I just remember seeing in the movie Annapolis how James Franco got the Governor/Senator to write him a letter of recommendation and he got into the place he wanted. I didn't know it worked this way.

Movies lie.


Umm you can't tell me that KIDS was a lie that shit was real yo

Lies! :)

ScaredWorkedBored
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:05 am

ArmyVet07 wrote:
Carnertine wrote:
ScaredWorkedBored wrote:I've said it before, but it bears repeating.

If you have more than one page of resume as a 22-26 year old, you have a major ego problem. You are not more accomplished or more special than law firm partners or senior business executives, both of which do just fine with one page.


Umm you don't know my past... So please don't make these broad over generalization sweeping statements.



Please consider also that some people going to law school are older than 26 with many years of work experience that would not conveniently fit on one page.


My father is able to fit undergrad, law school, summer positions, a few years at a large law firm, several years at a GC position and a couple decades of various in-house work with three different employers on one page.

I feel comfortable making a sweeping statement that your resume is full of irrelevent BS and elaborations of things that require no elaboration if you can't meet one page. You are not writing a CV and should not be writing like you are writing a CV.

User avatar
elliefont
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:07 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby elliefont » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:20 am

I'm going to side with the 1 page crew.... to paraphrase St. Ivey: adcomms dred folders than land with a thud.

Related resume question: I had a full tuition scholarship for in-state residents who maintain a B average. Almost EVERYONE gets it, but only about 48% of my class retained it by senior year. Is that retention rate significant enough to list (per Ms. Ivey's recommendation of writing brief explainers for any honors)

alleyoop86
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:42 am

Re: Resume Margins

Postby alleyoop86 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:51 pm

i really don't think adcomms mind if your resume is 2 pages instead of 1 page -as long as it's easy to read and useful info, i don't think it would be a big deal at all.

so, back to margins - is anyone actually using .5" margins, like the TLS guide says? Or is 1" still the standard amount (but you can get away with a little less than 1")?

User avatar
Carnertine
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:07 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby Carnertine » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:55 pm

alleyoop86 wrote:i really don't think adcomms mind if your resume is 2 pages instead of 1 page -as long as it's easy to read and useful info, i don't think it would be a big deal at all.

so, back to margins - is anyone actually using .5" margins, like the TLS guide says? Or is 1" still the standard amount (but you can get away with a little less than 1")?


Depends are you using an 8.5*11" or a 11*17" sheet of paper

User avatar
bottomshelf
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:26 am

Re: Resume Margins

Postby bottomshelf » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:11 pm

I'm 26 and am submitting a 2-page resume. I use a one page version when job hunting, so I agree that fitting the relevant information into one page can be done.

Law schools, however, allow me up to two pages for my awards, international research experience, years of volunteer service and work experience, both in an out of college. I think it's silly to say nobody in a certain age group can have more than one page of life experience that law schools might be interested in.

All of the T14 websites allow a 2-page resume.

User avatar
Carnertine
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:07 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby Carnertine » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:13 pm

bottomshelf wrote:I'm 26 and am submitting a 2-page resume. I use a one page version when job hunting, so I agree that fitting the relevant information into one page can be done.

Law schools, however, allow me up to two pages for my awards, international research experience, years of volunteer service and work experience, both in an out of college. I think it's silly to say nobody in a certain age group can have more than one page of life experience that law schools might be interested in.

All of the T14 websites allow a 2-page resume.


Cooley seeks a 1 page.

User avatar
iminlstrick
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:37 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby iminlstrick » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:14 pm

For those aiming for a one-page resume -- do you think it's okay, then, to leave certain jobs/activities off the resume, so that you can emphasize the important stuff, but then include those jobs/activities on applications that give you enough room to include them?

User avatar
elliefont
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:07 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby elliefont » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:38 pm

iminlstrick wrote:For those aiming for a one-page resume -- do you think it's okay, then, to leave certain jobs/activities off the resume, so that you can emphasize the important stuff, but then include those jobs/activities on applications that give you enough room to include them?


I plan on doing this. Specifically so that the resume is a easy entry into my life experience, they see the highlights and general accomplishments without getting bogged by details I can include elsewhere (transcript, application, ps, etc)

User avatar
NayBoer
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby NayBoer » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:08 pm

Just make a cover letter to your resume and put some of the explanations and material in there. Cut out skills, hobbies and objective from your resume and trim down your job descriptions. Frame and slightly expand on your job descriptions in the cover letter. This should help you keep it to a page.

Just in general resumes should always have a cover letter unless prohibited. My LS cover letter is two pages double-spaced (normally I would send it single-spaced, but all the statements/addenda are double-spaced) and addresses my experience generally. It also briefly mentions the other statements/addenda I'm attaching. My resume margins are stretched and the descriptions are in a smaller font, which is what my resume has looked like for years. Also, I do Verdana (slightly larger than other fonts).

Make sure you're using all the white space. Some people just do carriage returns (like the MS Word resume format) and leave tons of white space on the right side. Use cells (and color the borders white, making them invisible) to be more efficient. E.g. your title is in the left cell and your dates of employment are in the right cell.

Edit - I should point out that it's customary to not have any extra space at the bottom, most especially for a one-page resume. Think of one page as a minimum as well as a maximum.

User avatar
elliefont
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:07 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby elliefont » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:23 pm

NayBoer wrote:Just in general resumes should always have a cover letter unless prohibited. My LS cover letter is two pages double-spaced (normally I would send it single-spaced, but all the statements/addenda are double-spaced) and addresses my experience generally. It also briefly mentions the other statements/addenda I'm attaching.


A two-page cover letter to describe the contents within? In my work experience (somewhat non-traditional, but extensive) a cover letter is used to introduce yourself and describe why you want the specific job/internship you are applying for. Once we're including a PS, a transcript, a resume, etc, etc, a cover letter seems somewhat excessive and redundant.

User avatar
capitalacq
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:42 am

Re: Resume Margins

Postby capitalacq » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:37 pm

NayBoer wrote:Just make a cover letter to your resume and put some of the explanations and material in there. Cut out skills, hobbies and objective from your resume and trim down your job descriptions. Frame and slightly expand on your job descriptions in the cover letter. This should help you keep it to a page.

Just in general resumes should always have a cover letter unless prohibited. My LS cover letter is two pages double-spaced (normally I would send it single-spaced, but all the statements/addenda are double-spaced) and addresses my experience generally. It also briefly mentions the other statements/addenda I'm attaching. My resume margins are stretched and the descriptions are in a smaller font, which is what my resume has looked like for years. Also, I do Verdana (slightly larger than other fonts).

Make sure you're using all the white space. Some people just do carriage returns (like the MS Word resume format) and leave tons of white space on the right side. Use cells (and color the borders white, making them invisible) to be more efficient. E.g. your title is in the left cell and your dates of employment are in the right cell.

Edit - I should point out that it's customary to not have any extra space at the bottom, most especially for a one-page resume. Think of one page as a minimum as well as a maximum.

I strongly disagree with having a cover letter on your law school resume. If they wanted a cover letter, they'd mention one. Consider your PS as your cover letter. (Plus, a 2 page cover letter for anything is a negative, as is a cover letter that repeats whats in your resume)

User avatar
NayBoer
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby NayBoer » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:07 pm

Again, normally I'd keep a cover letter single-spaced to fall under a one-page limit. I double-spaced because every other document save the resume is going to be double-spaced. Consistency seemed more important. The word length is not bad and some portion of it is fluffy pleasantries (easy reading but I wanted to include it).

In general, all resumes should have a cover letter. My mom's been an executive placement specialist for years, trained in placing executives, salesmen, engineers, lawyers and the like; this has exposed me to more information on the subject than I'd care to repeat. And I've been involved on the administrative side of hiring, seeing how the firm decides whom to contact and whom to ignore. Both sources of information tell me that cover letters are a valuable asset (in fact, they are virtually a prerequisite at my firm).

Feel free to keep your own counsel here, of course, but why would you give up the opportunity for a cover letter? You don't want to positively inundate the adcoms, since they will spend a limited amount of time per application. But a cover letter is an opportunity to introduce yourself, to explain your resume, and highlight a few of your positive characteristics. It's also more to the point than the PS, which is usually more akin to a 2-page short story than a cover letter. Rather than turn my PS into a utilitarian introduction, I kept it as a way to color my personality and added a cover letter.

I expect the adcoms will be able to read the whole cover letter in 20-30 seconds, and it gives the highlights of the resume in an easy-to-read format. It may actually save time for the adcom while drawing the attention where I want it. I could avoid the cover letter and hope the adcom is able to spend extra time on MY resume to pick out the juicy tidbits before moving on; or I can write what is basically a summary of the relevant experience and help the adcom out. I chose the latter.

I can understand fear of overdoing it for LS, but cover letters are standard practice in employment. A cover letter is both a courtesy to the person forced to read your resume and a method of showing your interest. (For entry-level jobs it also shows that you can communicate coherently.) In a non-LS context, people who don't attach cover letters or some kind of introductory message are often spamming resumes (bigger risk of this if you post job ads in a public forum). It's nice to have an applicant who actually communicates with you instead of tossing out a generic resume without comment or explanation. A good cover letter addresses the stated requirements in the job ad and explains how the applicant meets them; it both proves genuine interest (minor goal) and argues reasons for hiring (major goal).

What would my application package look like without my cover letter?
- My PS is about a personal growth experience and does not address my work experience more than casually.
- My DS is unrelated to work experience.
- My addenda do not sufficiently explain my work experience and are a poor context for doing so.
- My Why X? essay(s) will be too short to mention work and in any case it would not be appropriate to expand on myself in a statement devoted to the school.
A cover letter explains my work experience more effectively through paragraphs than the resume can through bullets and sentence fragments. Also, with all the addenda and statements I'm considering sending, I need some sort of quick document that explains it all. Otherwise I'm just sending a big pile of paper and saying "here, you read this."

Ultimately, I'm less afraid of overdoing it with a few extra paragraphs and a few kind words than I am of missing a chance to frame my resume and application. I also wanted a place to thank the adcoms, and nowhere else seemed appropriate.

But again, feel free to keep your own counsel. I'm not going to spend all day arguing for other people to add cover letters; my application probably looks better by comparison the fewer people who do so.

User avatar
kurla88
Posts: 370
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Resume Margins

Postby kurla88 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:16 pm

I like .75 margins and 11 pt font.

User avatar
NayBoer
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby NayBoer » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:20 pm

capitalacq wrote:(Plus, a 2 page cover letter for anything is a negative, as is a cover letter that repeats whats in your resume)
I forgot to respond to the bolded. A cover letter should absolutely be related to your resume and should highlight those parts of your experience that relate to the stated job requirements. Some people may do less, but I think this is a wasted opportunity. It's never wrong to highlight your resume in a cover letter; it's arguably wrong to fail to do so.

User avatar
rx3r
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:35 pm

Re: Resume Margins

Postby rx3r » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:40 pm

Georgiana wrote:
Carnertine wrote:Oh, I just remember seeing in the movie Annapolis how James Franco got the Governor/Senator to write him a letter of recommendation and he got into the place he wanted. I didn't know it worked this way.

Movies lie.


No, this is actually how military academies work. You need to get a congressperson / senator to vouch for you. They only give out a certain number each and you have to submit applications to them.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: heythatslife and 4 guests