Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

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SandyC877
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby SandyC877 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:06 am

tag

JOThompson
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby JOThompson » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:22 am

Tagged.

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Arrow
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby Arrow » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:35 pm

a male human wrote:I look at the files again (and again), and I think I get it. Please let me know if I'm wrong:

The notes are summaries of cases you skim through, plus relevant things you add to the cases during class. And if you have questions about them, you jot them down at the end. Since you said the cases aren't very important, I'm guessing this notes file is just to keep track of what goes on in class and what the prof likes to emphasize, not necessarily to memorize or deeply study.

The outline is a summary of the entire class, which you recommend memorizing. It may include important cases, but generally it only has laws and their application, which you use to form arguments during the test. Are there minor laws you include here, or do you only focus on black letter?

You also say you work on your notes file as you read briefs. By briefs, do you mean the cases or is there a separate place you get these "briefs" (condensed form of the cases, I guess)?

Your list of supplements seems to come from various authors and texts. Does that mean you didn't get the E&Es for Contracts, for example?

I apologize for the barrage of questions, but I'm trying to prep as best as I can since I was not a liberal arts major. I can't help but feel apprehended by all these horror stories and new jargon. Thanks again.


Yeah, you pretty much said it. As for minor laws, I would definitely include those on the outlines. These nuances of the law are still law and thus essential.

When I said that I work on my notes file as I read briefs, I am referring to briefs of cases. I usually make my mini-briefs (in the notes file) by reading case briefs on line from wikipedia/supplements/lexis/past outlines.

I bought ALL of the E&E's before summer started so that I could read them ahead of time. I read a lot of different supplements. Most were okay, few were bad (cannot remember which), but the ones I listed were the hottest thing since hotness in my opinion. I would still recommend you read supplements for just about every course if you can.

Feel free to ask more questions if things are confusing and I wish you the best of luck. Do not mind the horror stories and all this new stuff, it will all come to you in time. Best of luck!

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A'nold
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby A'nold » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:36 pm

A'nold wrote:
Arrow wrote:
Gatorade wrote:congratulations on doing so awesome in ur 1L.

I'd love to see what your outline/case note/exam prep documents look like, especially the exam prep document. I am about to starting 1L in August, little nervous right now, since so much hinges on how well one does in 1L. thx

Subject: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)



Thank you for asking me to do this. Here are the 3 files I have for my Criminal Law Class.

A few things to notice:

My notes file: At the bottom of the file, I have big long lists of questions. These are things that confused me when I was studying and reading. I wrote them down and asked them to the professor during office hours.

My outline: At the top, I wrote small reminders to myself on things that were easily missed. I bold + italicize or used red font on certain things I tended to forget (basically I used them to emphasize things). At the bottom of my outline, I have the list of issues (in non-abbreviated form) that I would write down first thing on the exam.

My exam prep: Yes, it is a whopping 200 pages, as most of my exam prep documents range from 50-200 pages. This is the type of focus I think you should have for exam preparation. This professor had a ton of hypotheticals and practice exams for me to play with, which was perfect. In addition, her exam was especially a hard one racehorse style. You will also notice I have typed the black letter law quite a few times throughout the document, and no they were not copied. I also bolded the parts I forget and would review it now and then.

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
http://www.scribd.com/full/17016168?access_key=key-1pg6uigxccjyuwiaz2xa



I LOVE (and I mean love) your suggestion to write down all of the issues right away. That seems like the most genius thing I have ever read regarding exam prep. How could you possibly miss an issue? BRILLIANT.


Well, my prediction basically came true. :) Nothing was more helpful during the exam than my mini-issue checklists. I've talked to a few students that wanted to know how I did so well and when I got to the part about the checklists they had no idea what I was talking about and had to tell them about them. They were both like, "oh my gosh, that would've made all the difference!" While we'll never know if that would have really "made all the difference" for them, having one would have probably helped them. Checklists ftw!

Margaret Cavendish
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby Margaret Cavendish » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:18 am

awesome advice :)

hunkydory
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby hunkydory » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:25 pm

I wish I had something more to contribute besides "tag" and "thanks a million," but I don't.

ligirl
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby ligirl » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:42 pm

tag, thanks.

Devin the Dude
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby Devin the Dude » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:08 pm

Arrow, let me add my thanks, mad props, etc. You have a truly inspirational story.

I'm an 0L headed to a school with a reputation for black-letter teaching. Makes me want to bash myself for being a TTT, might make me feel better, but I digress. Your story really makes me want to use LEEWS, but I got the book and was unimpressed. The "conflict pairing" technique seemed neat if obvious, and I know everything depends on what my professor wants, but it seems odd that many professors would award points for regurgitating elements--especially elements that don't involve any interesting analysis. That, along with the guy's insistence on using pretentious Latin phrases, just kind of turned me off. (BTW, whoever thought up the acronym "LEEWS" should never be allowed to market anything.)

By contrast, I thought Getting To Maybe was brilliant. Maybe I'll even outline it properly to pound its lessons into my head. But I realize that organization and racking up points are paramount, and I can see how the LEEWS concepts could work with some professors in some classes.

I'm sure at many points, you had to decide whether to spend time listing all the elements of something. While the answer is necessarily professor-specific, can you weigh in with your opinion? Did you just follow the LEEWS format religiously?

Also, I think you said you'd consult several different supplements when forming your understanding of an issue to develop a frame of reference for the professor's commentary. I assume you'd start with the E&E and add detail with a proper hornbook (e.g. Calamari on contracts). Can you share your thoughts about this, too?

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Arrow
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby Arrow » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:29 pm

Uh oh, long response warning.

1. There is a huge debate in several threads about whether LEEWS works or not, so ultimately, the answer may be just 50/50. My personal impression from the threads is that LEEWS is spectacular for T2/T3/T4's and not so great for T14 students (who generally recommend GTM). Other times, it may just be person specific. I guess another way to put it is that LEEWS is great for people who are totally lost or who are not uber at legal reasoning (or dumb like myself). If you're already smart and you know it, GTM all the way!

Still, I highly recommend LEEWS for everyone. Sure, it takes up like 10 hours to do the program, but I have never heard of anyone who did LEEWS and just completed bombed (in fact, most did very well. The program still helps no matter what, even if people don't realize how it helps. Either way, I would not take the risk and just do LEEWS regardless.

Plus, the program guarantees top 1/3 performance, how can you go wrong? =P

2. Oh and about the LEEWS book, it is not very good by itself. They purposely left out a chunk of stuff in the book and moved things around so everything is written out of order. Scandalous, I know, as it forces you to buy the thing. I highly recommend you get the audio or do the live program just because it is more comprehensive. The book is really just to follow along and "review." Regardless, I think you got the gist down of what LEEWS is, and perhaps GTM is the best approach for you.

3. I did not follow LEEWS religiously. In fact, I made many changes and adjusted to fit my own personal style, and to fit the style of my professors. I did not always highly Latin words (which took up way too much time). I did not outline exactly the way LEEWS suggested. Plus, I probably practiced hypos at a difference pace. I did follow the underlying concepts pretty closely (good organization, practicing hypos, legal analysis stuff).

4. While regurgitating elements is generally not important (especially for open-book exams), we were required to do so. Many students did not have the black letter down cold (yet think they did) or it just took them too long to try and recall the black letter law. Of course, analysis is the key, but you were not really able to get the A's without solid black letter law regurgitation.

I never really had to decide whether to list the elements or not. All but one of my exams had a word limit, and I always just regurgitated my black letter law ASAP. The other good thing is that when I regurgitated it, I would see the elements and better apply them. I feel like if I forgot to write an element down, I might miss an issue that relates to that element.

6. As for the supplements, I always tried to start with the best supplement available for the course (of course, "best" is subjective). I had already read all the E&E's during my 0L summer, so in a sense, I guess I always started there. During the school year, I think I started with E&E for torts, E&E for civil procedure, Chemerinsky for con law, Levenson for criminal law (because she wrote this book), and Chirelstein for contracts. Property did not really have a best supplement, and my professor did not recommend one so I just started with the E&E.

Overall, how you study is up to you. We all have different methods and like different supplements. I hope this helps!

I love being a benevolent marketer for LEEWS haha =P

itsmytime10
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby itsmytime10 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:49 pm

tag

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things fall apart
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby things fall apart » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:16 pm

Nice, I'll either use this this fall or next. Thanks

Queenjane87
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby Queenjane87 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:08 am

Tag

lawschoolgiant
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby lawschoolgiant » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:18 am

tag

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SAE
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby SAE » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:22 am

jcgolf88 wrote:tag

lawschoolgiant wrote:tag

Queenjane87 wrote:Tag


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=105153

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:12 am

SAE wrote:
jcgolf88 wrote:tag

lawschoolgiant wrote:tag

Queenjane87 wrote:Tag


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=105153

Blatant future-mod-gunning.

imisscollege
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby imisscollege » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:25 am

this is amazing thanks

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evilgenius
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby evilgenius » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:48 pm

Wow, thanks. this is extremely helpful.

igotmineatross
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby igotmineatross » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:52 am

thanks arrow! this has been bookmarked and will keep in mind once i start in fall!

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A'nold
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby A'nold » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:54 am

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
SAE wrote:
jcgolf88 wrote:tag

lawschoolgiant wrote:tag

Queenjane87 wrote:Tag


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=105153

Blatant future-mod-gunning.


Lulz.

joonhp
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby joonhp » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:07 am

.

d34d9823
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby d34d9823 » Mon May 03, 2010 12:25 pm

Awesome post!

legalized
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby legalized » Mon May 03, 2010 2:46 pm

This thread is like a bible! lol!

Thank you and definitely adding to my ls Favourites folder. Wow!

terpette
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby terpette » Mon May 03, 2010 6:10 pm

legalized wrote:This thread is like a bible! lol!

Thank you and definitely adding to my ls Favourites folder. Wow!


ditto!

xiening
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby xiening » Mon May 24, 2010 12:54 am

Arrow, Great advice! I hope everything goes well in Boalt.
One little questions I may face at this time, I try to open your Criminal exam prep file but it does not show me anything. (just a blank page with a white screen.) Here is the link I use--- http://www.scribd.com/full/17016168?acc ... jyuwiaz2xa
I tried to use firefox and IE, but neither of them work. Any suggestions that may fix this issue will be truly appreciated!

Best!

lawchampion
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Re: Advice for doing well in law school (at a T2)

Postby lawchampion » Mon May 24, 2010 1:12 am

Perfect, thanks for the info




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