JD/PhD part 2

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MURPH
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JD/PhD part 2

Postby MURPH » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:50 am

OK, so a few people responded that they have been thinking about doing a joint PHD and JD program. But no one has responded saying they are doing one or that they did one. Let's fix that.
I would like to contact several professors that now work in legal academia who have done joint degree programs. I will interview them and post the Q+A on here and on GradCafe.com. Brian Leiter has responded to my emails in the past and he has offered to answer questions from people interested in Chicago on his web site. He seems to be the expert opinion in this area. So I will start with him. No promises that he will even respond but we can repeat the process with others as well.
Let's use this thread to come up with seven or eight good questions. We can kick the questions around for a day or two while I try to contact the professors. We should not ask obvious questions like "which schools are ranked the best" since Leiter has made that info available on his web site.
I'll think of some questions before going to bed tonight. I'll also crosspost this at gradcafe.

Murph

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James Bond
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Re: JD/PhD part 2

Postby James Bond » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:52 am

Why would you write "murph" after your post? Did you think we would assume that someone else logged into your account and posted that otherwise?

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gatorlion
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Re: JD/PhD part 2

Postby gatorlion » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:44 am

MURPH wrote:OK, so a few people responded that they have been thinking about doing a joint PHD and JD program. But no one has responded saying they are doing one or that they did one. Let's fix that.
I would like to contact several professors that now work in legal academia who have done joint degree programs. I will interview them and post the Q+A on here and on GradCafe.com. Brian Leiter has responded to my emails in the past and he has offered to answer questions from people interested in Chicago on his web site. He seems to be the expert opinion in this area. So I will start with him. No promises that he will even respond but we can repeat the process with others as well.
Let's use this thread to come up with seven or eight good questions. We can kick the questions around for a day or two while I try to contact the professors. We should not ask obvious questions like "which schools are ranked the best" since Leiter has made that info available on his web site.
I'll think of some questions before going to bed tonight. I'll also crosspost this at gradcafe.

Murph


I considered doing this as I am currently a student in a PhD program in a cognate discipline to law. I have talked to professors who have earned a PhD (UCSD) and then gone to law school (Harvard), who went for the JD (Florida, Loyola) before beginning their PhD (UCSD, UCI), and one who did both concurrently (Michigan). After mulling it over, I have come to the following conclusion: the path you embark upon depends on your career goals.

If you want to work in V100, there is not much added value to a PhD and it may signal to employers in the private sector that you are more theory-oriented, as opposed to practice-oriented.
If you want to work in legal academia, a combined degree is fine.
If you want to work in academia in the field in which you earned your PhD, a JD will only make you more attractive to the extent that it shows you can teach law-oriented classes.
If you pursue both a JD and a PhD concurrently, however, it will devalue the worth of the PhD in the eyes of the department.

In sum, if legal academia is your aim, it seems perfectly rational to pursue a combined PhD/JD program. However, for any other career path it does not seem to be particularly useful, and might even be detrimental in terms of how employers will view you or the opportunity cost of extra years of graduate study beyond the JD (if you are worried about paying back loans, because PhD programs will not likely pay for the 3 years of law school). Hope this helps!

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MURPH
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Re: JD/PhD part 2

Postby MURPH » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:12 am

Here are my ideas for questions:Audience: TLS and grad café, mostly undergrads some grad students. Audience is leaning toward academia, legal academia as a post grad goal.
Topic: pursuing a joint PhD in philosophy and JD.
Questions: How does the PhD in Philosophy make you a better law professor?
How does the JD make you a better philosopher?
(Leiter) You have explained in your blog that Law professors have advantages over Philosophy departments – better funding, better course loads and other things – re there any advantages of teaching philosophy over teaching law?
Some applicants have gotten the advice that they should not express their wish to pursue a joint degree program in their application because the folks on the law school admission committees will be less likely to admit them if they think that the student will reject the school if he or she does not get into the philosophy program. I have a few questions around this topic. In your experience is there any truth to this – are students at a disadvantage if they mention a joint degree program? Does anything similar go on at philosophy program admissions?
Does the joint JD/PhD make someone more appealing as a candidate to a tenure track Philosophy job? What about a tenure track law job?
If you could design an ideal joint JD/PhD program what would it look like?
Among you colleagues with joint JD/PhD whom do you most admire? Are there any young professors that we should be watching out for?

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ACM
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Re: JD/PhD part 2

Postby ACM » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:40 am

Murph and GatorLion,

So I think a field where joint degrees would be desirable, in addition to academia, is consulting. I believe I'll be more marketable if I am expert in both the law and in my particular field of study. I also feel that being able to take theory to the bar and back again will lend integrity to my research projects. The gap between theory and practice is too infrequently bridged.

It seems that public and private sector clients would value someone with degrees in both the law and in some niche application.

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MURPH
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Re: JD/PhD part 2

Postby MURPH » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:04 am

This thread had been dead for a while but its cool that someone saw it again. I planned to interview Leiter or other professors with a JD/PhD but his interview with TLS showed up on the interview page a couple of days after I posted this. That was a little bit helpful, though he didn't talk much about the joint degree stuff other then that it would be more useful as time goes by. http://www.top-law-schools.com/brian-le ... rview.html

I have a GI Bill that pays for four years of school so I am going to get at least an MA in philosophy or an LLM. I have been pretty disappointed with my cycle so far and while my dreams of becoming a law professor are not crushed, I am not a likely candidate that a school is going to be looking to hire. I am going to have to do a lot to prove myself.

ACM, I just came across a web site that has some books for alternative careers in law. http://www.nalp.org/categories/?catID=1 and http://www.nalp.org/categories/?catID=14

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ACM
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Re: JD/PhD part 2

Postby ACM » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:31 am

Why not start with a J.D.? You could be employable at many law schools (at least as an adjunct) with a J.D.

traficante
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Re: JD/PhD part 2

Postby traficante » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:42 am

gatorlion wrote:
MURPH wrote:OK, so a few people responded that they have been thinking about doing a joint PHD and JD program. But no one has responded saying they are doing one or that they did one. Let's fix that.
I would like to contact several professors that now work in legal academia who have done joint degree programs. I will interview them and post the Q+A on here and on GradCafe.com. Brian Leiter has responded to my emails in the past and he has offered to answer questions from people interested in Chicago on his web site. He seems to be the expert opinion in this area. So I will start with him. No promises that he will even respond but we can repeat the process with others as well.
Let's use this thread to come up with seven or eight good questions. We can kick the questions around for a day or two while I try to contact the professors. We should not ask obvious questions like "which schools are ranked the best" since Leiter has made that info available on his web site.
I'll think of some questions before going to bed tonight. I'll also crosspost this at gradcafe.

Murph


I considered doing this as I am currently a student in a PhD program in a cognate discipline to law. I have talked to professors who have earned a PhD (UCSD) and then gone to law school (Harvard), who went for the JD (Florida, Loyola) before beginning their PhD (UCSD, UCI), and one who did both concurrently (Michigan). After mulling it over, I have come to the following conclusion: the path you embark upon depends on your career goals.

If you want to work in V100, there is not much added value to a PhD and it may signal to employers in the private sector that you are more theory-oriented, as opposed to practice-oriented.
If you want to work in legal academia, a combined degree is fine.
If you want to work in academia in the field in which you earned your PhD, a JD will only make you more attractive to the extent that it shows you can teach law-oriented classes.
If you pursue both a JD and a PhD concurrently, however, it will devalue the worth of the PhD in the eyes of the department.

In sum, if legal academia is your aim, it seems perfectly rational to pursue a combined PhD/JD program. However, for any other career path it does not seem to be particularly useful, and might even be detrimental in terms of how employers will view you or the opportunity cost of extra years of graduate study beyond the JD (if you are worried about paying back loans, because PhD programs will not likely pay for the 3 years of law school). Hope this helps!


This is the sense I've got from faculty in my program as well. Some were pretty derisive of the joint programs
(and we have one), to be honest, so those entering should be aware of these opinions.

But here is a question I think is worth asking: in what sub-fields does a joint degree make more practical sense than others?

And if you want to follow up the above: Are there some disciplines where the joint degree devalues the worth of the PhD? If one wants to work in the field of one's PhD, are there situations where the joint degree is worth it?

And since this should be pretty common if you do your homework (PhD programs are much more competitive):

Student A has been admitted to a decent PhD program (top 10-15) and its t14 law school, but an elite law school (HYS). Do you have any advice as to when the joint degree makes sense in this kind of situation, or should they do the JD at HYS and then the PhD?

Edit: Just realized it was an old thread...




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