Mean LSAT by UG College

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Pearalegal
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:23 pm

rayiner wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:Then we have to take demographics, relative wealth of the student population, ect.


All of which favor WUSTL over the top state schools.


This is silly. You seem personally offended by WUSTL.

The whole damned school isn't overrated because the average scores of one test aren't at the very top. Theres a reason their SAT scores rock.

TheLaw
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby TheLaw » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:23 pm

Emory (my undergrad) is an excellent institution and certainly not overrated. The most studious undergrads usually go to medical school. At a place like Emory, where many students expect to go on to graduate school, students will often times take the LSAT as a backup in case they can't think of anything better to do. This is what I did the first time I took the LSAT. Consequently, my first LSAT was only one point away from my college's average. After being in the workforce for year I realized that going to law school was what I really wanted to do. I retook the exam scored nine points higher and will be attending a T-14. Main point: average LSAT score is an unrepresentative sample of overall undergraduate student body intelligence. Emory and WUSTL are likely similar in this respect.

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RVP11
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:23 pm

BeastCoastHype wrote:If anything I think that these data reflect the fact that US News isn't the best proxy for judging the intelligence of the undergrad population. A lot of extra nonsense gets factored into those rankings (alumni giving, retention after freshman year etc.) that doesn't have anything to do with how selective the school is. Many schools with lower acceptance rates and equivalent or higher SAT ranges are beneath schools that admit up to 50% of applicants because they lose out in these other categories.


TITCR.

See this example:

Northern Arizona (median SAT around 1050) - U.S. News says TIER 4 - mean LSAT? 151

Arizona State (median SAT around 1070) - U.S. News says TIER 1 (WTF?) - mean LSAT? 152

How the hell are two near-identical schools based on test scores THREE TIERS apart? And the lower tier school is more selective based on acceptance rate.

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Marko Ramius
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby Marko Ramius » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:27 pm

rayiner wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Redwyng4 wrote:I don't think you can necessarily draw the conclusions you are drawing based on a schools median LSAT. Let me preface this by saying that I don't attend any of these schools. WUSTL is known for its sciences and pre-med program for undergrad. While they may have a good number of students that take the LSAT, they may not be an accurate representation of the schools undergraduate population.


And Georgia Tech is an engineering school...


Come on, ray, that doesn't discredit his point.

WUSTL UG is ridiculously hard to get into, and its average SAT scores are fantastic. I don't know why they don't quite correlate with LSAT, but I definitely wouldn't say the institution is overrated because of that fact alone.


He's arguing that the people at WUSTL taking the LSAT are not representative of the school's overall population, because WUSTL has a focus on sciences/medicine. I gave an example of a school that has if anything a far more narrow focus, and yet its LSAT score is still commensurate with its overall rank.

WUSTL's average LSAT is clearly anomalous. You can see the top state schools (Michigan, UVA, Tech, etc) all clustered around 157-158. You can see Duke/Georgetown/Rice clustered around 161-163. WUSTL is ranked above the latter but has scores in the former band.


RAYINER, this is a blatant slap in the face. Duke is 8th nationally, buddy. Yeah, I take exception.

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RVP11
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:27 pm

TheLaw wrote:Emory (my undergrad) is an excellent institution and certainly not overrated. The most studious undergrads usually go to medical school. At a place like Emory, where many students expect to go on to graduate school, students will often times take the LSAT as a backup in case they can't think of anything better to do. This is what I did the first time I took the LSAT. Consequently, my first LSAT was only one point away from my college's average. After being in the workforce for year I realized that going to law school was what I really wanted to do. I retook the exam scored nine points higher and will be attending a T-14. Main point: average LSAT score is an unrepresentative sample of overall undergraduate student body intelligence. Emory and WUSTL are likely similar in this respect.


I don't see what your point is. That could be applied to every UG school. A ton of people at every school take the LSAT unprepped. I know several people who scored in the high 150s because they didn't know that you could improve at all on the LSAT. These people could have gotten 168+ and be T14-bound had they known better. But I'm sure this is the case at every school.

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missvik218
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby missvik218 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:29 pm

Tulane = 157.

afterglow99
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby afterglow99 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:30 pm

McGill = 159

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dresden doll
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby dresden doll » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:31 pm

I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?

Pearalegal
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:32 pm

dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?


Because they aren't all that serious about law school.

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RVP11
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:33 pm

dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?


I was told multiple times by multiple people that you couldn't really "improve" on the LSAT by more than 2-3 points. There's a ton of misinformation out there.

Also, a whole 'nother group just doesn't care that much. They went to XYZ local state school for UG and just want to do the same for LS, without doing any additional research.

Esc
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby Esc » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:33 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Esc wrote:I won't out myself completely on here, but it was a small public university in Texas. I went there for scholarship, low tuition, and relaxed atmosphere, not for its academic quality. To be fair, though, the science program I was in was pretty good (but none of the other people in it were going to law school). I can't say the same for all the Poli Sci and English majors there who figured that they were going to get into UTexas with a 2.8 GPA....

Only 1 percent scored higher than 95th percentile, but since only 117 were on record as taking the LSAT, that extrapolates to 1 8) However, you did beat me. Only 42% of the people at my UG scored in the 0-19th percentile :shock:

I, too, have contempt for my UG. A lot of the professors and a good many of my classmates were really cool, but the administration....not so much.

Oh, and almost everyone at my UG failed the MCAT as well. :roll:


Sounds suspiciously close to my experience. My professors were pretty great, IMO, and some of my classmates were fun to hang out with but I definitely wouldn't consider them too bright. And administration was truly awful - I think that tends to be the common thread for toilet institutions in general. I despised our Dean of Students.


Commiseration. I had a bit of a vendetta with the Dean of Student Affairs, as I was the one Student Gov member who wasn't licking ass and rubber-stamping whatever the admin wanted. My only regret is that I was too dedicated to maintaining a 4.0 and working to be more of a pain in the Dean's ass.

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itzjulz
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby itzjulz » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:34 pm

Wayne State University - mean LSAT of 147

What's worse is the score distribution. 33% in the 0-19th percentile :shock: :shock: :shock:

Of the sample size of about 500, 1% in the 95-99th percentile. I wonder who the other 4 people are? Come out, come out, wherever you are!?

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RVP11
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:35 pm

My schools LSAT distribution follows the percentages almost exactly. 18% scored in the 0-19 range, 5% in the 95-99 range, etc.

Pearalegal
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:37 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?


I was told multiple times by multiple people that you couldn't really "improve" on the LSAT by more than 2-3 points. There's a ton of misinformation out there.

Also, a whole 'nother group just doesn't care that much. They went to XYZ local state school for UG and just want to do the same for LS, without doing any additional research.


Yeah, exactly. Some people also aren't aware of the huge factor the LSAT plays in admissions. It just all comes down to not really being very ambitious about law school.

These people may change their minds once their life goals change, or a career path they had decided on instead then...they'll be here.

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BeastCoastHype
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby BeastCoastHype » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:37 pm

Marko Ramius wrote:
RAYINER, this is a blatant slap in the face. Duke is 8th nationally, buddy. Yeah, I take exception.


Why, sir, you have insulted my honor! If I had a white glove I would slap you in the face with it and spit on your shoes! How dare you suggest that my school is ranked 12th instead of 8th! This is the lowest, most contemptible insult I have ever seen! I expect a letter of apology written in cursive, or we shall meet with pistols at dawn.
Last edited by BeastCoastHype on Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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missvik218
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby missvik218 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:38 pm

dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?


+1 This annoys the crap out of me, especially people who don't study .. take it .. and then complain about their low scores. Like they thought everyone else who wasted time and money studying and prepping were all a bunch of half wits! WTF?

nanaNa
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby nanaNa » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:40 pm

itzjulz wrote:Wayne State University - mean LSAT of 147

What's worse is the score distribution. 33% in the 0-19th percentile :shock: :shock: :shock:

Of the sample size of about 500, 1% in the 95-99th percentile. I wonder who the other 4 people are? Come out, come out, wherever you are!?


They may have been gunned down.....

markymark
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby markymark » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:40 pm

missvik218 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?


+1 This annoys the crap out of me, especially people who don't study .. take it .. and then complain about their low scores. Like they thought everyone else who wasted time and money studying and prepping were all a bunch of half wits! WTF?



Sadly I had a friend take the LSAT with no prep. She beat me by 7 points :(

Pearalegal
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:41 pm

markymark wrote:
missvik218 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:I generally have contempt for people that take LSAT unprepared. That's just ridiculous. Why would anyone even think of doing that?


+1 This annoys the crap out of me, especially people who don't study .. take it .. and then complain about their low scores. Like they thought everyone else who wasted time and money studying and prepping were all a bunch of half wits! WTF?


Sadly I had a friend take the LSAT with no prep. She beat me by 7 points :(



Now that would annoy the crap out of me.

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dresden doll
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby dresden doll » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:42 pm

Esc wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Sounds suspiciously close to my experience. My professors were pretty great, IMO, and some of my classmates were fun to hang out with but I definitely wouldn't consider them too bright. And administration was truly awful - I think that tends to be the common thread for toilet institutions in general. I despised our Dean of Students.


Commiseration. I had a bit of a vendetta with the Dean of Student Affairs, as I was the one Student Gov member who wasn't licking ass and rubber-stamping whatever the admin wanted. My only regret is that I was too dedicated to maintaining a 4.0 and working to be more of a pain in the Dean's ass.


I was in Student Gov too and dealing with administration was an incredibly frustrating task. I gave up after the first semester of my junior year (I also founded Amnesty International campus chapter around that time, so I decided I'd rather dedicate myself to a more gratifying project.)

I totally have a personal vendetta against my Dean of Students. She made me undergo all these testings back in a day to ensure that I wasn't anorexic. I am not going to get into how it came about, but suffice it to say that I've despised her ever since.

And I won't even get into dorms Residence Life - the Assistant Director was a true bitch.

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Marko Ramius
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby Marko Ramius » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:42 pm

BeastCoastHype wrote:
Marko Ramius wrote:
RAYINER, this is a blatant slap in the face. Duke is 8th nationally, buddy. Yeah, I take exception.


Why, sir, you have insulted my honor! If I had a white glove I would slap you in the face with it and spit on your shoes! How dare you suggest that my school is ranked 12th instead of 8th! This is the lowest, most contemptible insult I have ever seen! I expect a letter of apology written in cursive, or we shall meet with pistols at dawn.


I will meet you with an enema at dawn. You will prostrate yourself on the ground. My tube will enter you. Fluid will make you feel tingly inside. You will pay $5.50 for service. I will pay for my lunch with your money.

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dresden doll
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby dresden doll » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:43 pm

itzjulz wrote:Wayne State University - mean LSAT of 147

What's worse is the score distribution. 33% in the 0-19th percentile :shock: :shock: :shock:

Of the sample size of about 500, 1% in the 95-99th percentile. I wonder who the other 4 people are? Come out, come out, wherever you are!?


30 percent for me. I really want to calculate the damn mean now - anyone?

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itzjulz
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby itzjulz » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:45 pm

nanaNa wrote:
itzjulz wrote:Wayne State University - mean LSAT of 147

What's worse is the score distribution. 33% in the 0-19th percentile :shock: :shock: :shock:

Of the sample size of about 500, 1% in the 95-99th percentile. I wonder who the other 4 people are? Come out, come out, wherever you are!?


They may have been gunned down.....


Campus itself isn't that bad! I hope that if the other 4 were smart enough to do well on the LSAT, they are also smart enough to stay away from the Cass Corridor.

Esc
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby Esc » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:51 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Esc wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Sounds suspiciously close to my experience. My professors were pretty great, IMO, and some of my classmates were fun to hang out with but I definitely wouldn't consider them too bright. And administration was truly awful - I think that tends to be the common thread for toilet institutions in general. I despised our Dean of Students.


Commiseration. I had a bit of a vendetta with the Dean of Student Affairs, as I was the one Student Gov member who wasn't licking ass and rubber-stamping whatever the admin wanted. My only regret is that I was too dedicated to maintaining a 4.0 and working to be more of a pain in the Dean's ass.


I was in Student Gov too and dealing with administration was an incredibly frustrating task. I gave up after the first semester of my junior year (I also founded Amnesty International campus chapter around that time, so I decided I'd rather dedicate myself to a more gratifying project.)

I totally have a personal vendetta against my Dean of Students. She made me undergo all these testings back in a day to ensure that I wasn't anorexic. I am not going to get into how it came about, but suffice it to say that I've despised her ever since.

And I won't even get into dorms Residence Life - the Assistant Director was a true bitch.


WTF :shock: Not to delve into the specifics of your personal story, but how could a school official require that? Without clear evidence of suicidal or violent tendencies, aren't school administration prohibited from pulling shit like this? Am I right to guess that they made up some "evidence" for purposes of retribution?

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BeastCoastHype
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Re: Mean LSAT by UG College

Postby BeastCoastHype » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:59 pm

Marko Ramius wrote:
BeastCoastHype wrote:
Marko Ramius wrote:
RAYINER, this is a blatant slap in the face. Duke is 8th nationally, buddy. Yeah, I take exception.


Why, sir, you have insulted my honor! If I had a white glove I would slap you in the face with it and spit on your shoes! How dare you suggest that my school is ranked 12th instead of 8th! This is the lowest, most contemptible insult I have ever seen! I expect a letter of apology written in cursive, or we shall meet with pistols at dawn.


I will meet you with an enema at dawn. You will prostrate yourself on the ground. My tube will enter you. Fluid will make you feel tingly inside. You will pay $5.50 for service. I will pay for my lunch with your money.


Ha! Yes, a classically vulgar move, to be expected from a lowly Duke scoundrel. I believe that an image of General Sherman doing this to a woman from Georgia is at the center of the university's crest, as this ritual remains the cornerstone of a Duke education. Each freshman has one administered by the university president upon arrival at campus, an experience that permanently engraves the infamous "Duke sneer" upon each little face. I will have no part in such foul play, sir, as gentlemen of New York prefer the "cheap shot" precedent set by Aaron Burr with his pistols. You can learn about this hilarious tradition here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V_DsL1x1uY




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