Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue May 12, 2009 3:23 am

mrman17 wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:So, when do I get my pimped-out Escalade and semi-clothed honies?



That comes with the LLM


Shit! I'm not even on the JD yet!

User avatar
Drake014
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:22 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Drake014 » Tue May 12, 2009 3:24 am

ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.



I assume anyone who mentions Cooley is a flame.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue May 12, 2009 3:25 am

Drake014 wrote:
ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.



I assume anyone who mentions Cooley is a flame.


Hey man, this is Top Law Schools and Cooley's what, 15th now?! :shock:

User avatar
Drake014
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:22 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Drake014 » Tue May 12, 2009 3:30 am

prezidentv8 wrote:
Drake014 wrote:
ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.



I assume anyone who mentions Cooley is a flame.


Hey man, this is Top Law Schools and Cooley's what, 15th now?! :shock:


Way too many posts profess they are either seriously considering going to Cooley or know someone who does. There is no way this many people on TLS are considering going to this obscure school or know someone who did. Therefore, probable flame.

User avatar
prezidentv8
Posts: 2821
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:33 am

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue May 12, 2009 3:33 am

Drake014 wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
Drake014 wrote:
ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.



I assume anyone who mentions Cooley is a flame.


Hey man, this is Top Law Schools and Cooley's what, 15th now?! :shock:


Way too many posts profess they are either seriously considering going to Cooley or know someone who does. There is no way this many people on TLS are considering going to this obscure school or know someone who did. Therefore, probable flame.


Right on.

User avatar
solo_lawyer
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:42 am

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby solo_lawyer » Tue May 12, 2009 6:42 am

only half the people who have the JD actually practice law. Do you think that only half the people who have the MD practice?

That should tell you something right there.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby rayiner » Tue May 12, 2009 9:11 am

While this thread is as old as dirt, I'd like to again point out the idiocy of the original poster. Went to Vermont Law, did well, got interest from legal employers in Vermont, then moved to NYC without a job... :roll:

Dude make mistake after another, and "going to law school" was not the foremost of them. And WTF is up with the "MBA from a local college"? I assume he knows that non name-brand MBAs are just as useless as non name-brand JDs?

Leeroy Jenkins
Posts: 1003
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:19 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue May 12, 2009 9:16 am

I know, hilarious right? What on earth was this guy thinking...

Leeroy Jenkins
Posts: 1003
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:19 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue May 12, 2009 9:22 am

solo_lawyer wrote:only half the people who have the JD actually practice law. Do you think that only half the people who have the MD practice?

That should tell you something right there.

Half the people with engineering degrees don't practice engineering. You don't have a point.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby rayiner » Tue May 12, 2009 9:32 am

Lxw wrote:
solo_lawyer wrote:only half the people who have the JD actually practice law. Do you think that only half the people who have the MD practice?

That should tell you something right there.

Half the people with engineering degrees don't practice engineering. You don't have a point.


Engineering is a mistake too LXW! Engineering + JD -> biggest mistake akin to porking a 300 lb land-whale!

Don't you see? We should've become HVAC technicians!

Leeroy Jenkins
Posts: 1003
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:19 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue May 12, 2009 9:34 am

rayiner wrote:
Lxw wrote:
solo_lawyer wrote:only half the people who have the JD actually practice law. Do you think that only half the people who have the MD practice?
That should tell you something right there.

Half the people with engineering degrees don't practice engineering. You don't have a point.

Engineering is a mistake too LXW! Engineering + JD -> biggest mistake akin to porking a 300 lb land-whale!

Don't you see? We should've become HVAC technicians!

I should become a pizza delivery booooy for papa johns. that way, i can avoid spending 7 years of my life in school just to come out and make $25k/yr despite having better prospects which I pissed away due to my naivete.

User avatar
WSULeifJ
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:59 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby WSULeifJ » Tue May 12, 2009 9:52 am

Drake014 wrote:Way too many posts profess they are either seriously considering going to Cooley or know someone who does. There is no way this many people on TLS are considering going to this obscure school or know someone who did. Therefore, probable flame.


On the other hand, Cooley's entering class does have 300,000 people in it. That type of thing adds up to lots of people knowing Cooley students.

ResIpsaLoquitur
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:07 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby ResIpsaLoquitur » Tue May 12, 2009 10:14 am

I feel like someone is noticeably missing from this thread...

User avatar
uphill
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:06 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby uphill » Tue May 12, 2009 11:43 am

CE2JD wrote:
uphill wrote:This is what all these threads sound like at this point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q16KpquGsIc


Funny, I see that youtube vid as a metaphor for TLS in general.



Yeop, I agree

Olto
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Olto » Tue May 12, 2009 11:49 am

rayiner wrote:While this thread is as old as dirt, I'd like to again point out the idiocy of the original poster. Went to Vermont Law, did well, got interest from legal employers in Vermont, then moved to NYC without a job... :roll:

Dude make mistake after another, and "going to law school" was not the foremost of them. And WTF is up with the "MBA from a local college"? I assume he knows that non name-brand MBAs are just as useless as non name-brand JDs?



I don't think it's right that all of you guys are calling him an idiot for moving back to his hometown, where his SO lives. You would THINK that a law degree from a well-known state school would have at least some portability in a neighboring state no less. However, it's clear that this economy has turned all of that around. He's just trying to be helpful to any students who might be in his situation: going to a regional school with hopes of returning back home to practice. Maybe it just isn't a good option anymore.

It's always easier to point fingers at someone on an anonymous internet message board, but I bet in person you would feel bad for the guy. And, if not, well, I'm sorry that you are so pessimistic.

darkknight2000
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:17 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby darkknight2000 » Tue May 12, 2009 11:59 am

Olto wrote:
rayiner wrote:While this thread is as old as dirt, I'd like to again point out the idiocy of the original poster. Went to Vermont Law, did well, got interest from legal employers in Vermont, then moved to NYC without a job... :roll:

Dude make mistake after another, and "going to law school" was not the foremost of them. And WTF is up with the "MBA from a local college"? I assume he knows that non name-brand MBAs are just as useless as non name-brand JDs?



I don't think it's right that all of you guys are calling him an idiot for moving back to his hometown, where his SO lives. You would THINK that a law degree from a well-known state school would have at least some portability in a neighboring state no less. However, it's clear that this economy has turned all of that around. He's just trying to be helpful to any students who might be in his situation: going to a regional school with hopes of returning back home to practice. Maybe it just isn't a good option anymore.

It's always easier to point fingers at someone on an anonymous internet message board, but I bet in person you would feel bad for the guy. And, if not, well, I'm sorry that you are so pessimistic.


Very few people on TLS assume this.

User avatar
zettsscores40
Posts: 2118
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:49 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby zettsscores40 » Tue May 12, 2009 12:06 pm

rayiner wrote:
Lxw wrote:
solo_lawyer wrote:only half the people who have the JD actually practice law. Do you think that only half the people who have the MD practice?

That should tell you something right there.

Half the people with engineering degrees don't practice engineering. You don't have a point.


Engineering is a mistake too LXW! Engineering + JD -> biggest mistake akin to porking a 300 lb land-whale!

Don't you see? We should've become HVAC technicians!


That is not a mistake.

Olto
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Olto » Tue May 12, 2009 12:06 pm

darkknight2000 wrote:
Olto wrote:
rayiner wrote:While this thread is as old as dirt, I'd like to again point out the idiocy of the original poster. Went to Vermont Law, did well, got interest from legal employers in Vermont, then moved to NYC without a job... :roll:

Dude make mistake after another, and "going to law school" was not the foremost of them. And WTF is up with the "MBA from a local college"? I assume he knows that non name-brand MBAs are just as useless as non name-brand JDs?



I don't think it's right that all of you guys are calling him an idiot for moving back to his hometown, where his SO lives. You would THINK that a law degree from a well-known state school would have at least some portability in a neighboring state no less. However, it's clear that this economy has turned all of that around. He's just trying to be helpful to any students who might be in his situation: going to a regional school with hopes of returning back home to practice. Maybe it just isn't a good option anymore.

It's always easier to point fingers at someone on an anonymous internet message board, but I bet in person you would feel bad for the guy. And, if not, well, I'm sorry that you are so pessimistic.


Very few people on TLS assume this.



I've learned, after a year at law school and from talking to countless 0Ls about their applications, that TLS is a very small, well-informed minority of the law school gene pool. There are a LOT of people who think a reputable state school will be somewhat portable. They just don't live on TLS.

User avatar
Jay Phatsby
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:29 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Jay Phatsby » Tue May 12, 2009 12:36 pm

^ I agree

Leeroy Jenkins
Posts: 1003
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:19 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Tue May 12, 2009 12:43 pm

Olto wrote:I don't think it's right that all of you guys are calling him an idiot for moving back to his hometown, where his SO lives. You would THINK that a law degree from a well-known state school would have at least some portability in a neighboring state no less. However, it's clear that this economy has turned all of that around. He's just trying to be helpful to any students who might be in his situation: going to a regional school with hopes of returning back home to practice. Maybe it just isn't a good option anymore.

It was never a good option. Not once has anyone ever advocated going to a regional school outside of the region you want to practice in for law school. If someone went making assumptions without any basis, tough luck. You eat your own failures.

Olto
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Olto » Tue May 12, 2009 12:54 pm

Lxw wrote:
Olto wrote:I don't think it's right that all of you guys are calling him an idiot for moving back to his hometown, where his SO lives. You would THINK that a law degree from a well-known state school would have at least some portability in a neighboring state no less. However, it's clear that this economy has turned all of that around. He's just trying to be helpful to any students who might be in his situation: going to a regional school with hopes of returning back home to practice. Maybe it just isn't a good option anymore.

It was never a good option. Not once has anyone ever advocated going to a regional school outside of the region you want to practice in for law school. If someone went making assumptions without any basis, tough luck. You eat your own failures.



Mostly it's people on TLS who would call it a failure, which just proves my point even further. Not everyone reads these sites. How about this for a basis: UVM's law website says "Law for the community and the world." It pitches its #1 environmental law ranking (presumably making it more global). I'm sure all over their literature is how their graduates practice all over the country and the world, etc. Yeah, it's all marketing, but people read this stuff and believe it. The schools then put you in touch with alums who will join the chorus and drive it in even further. It's not a completely unreasonable mistake to make. Again, only people who live on TLS know the ins-and-outs of the process. Most people who apply to law school don't make the admissions process their #1 most-visited website.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby rayiner » Tue May 12, 2009 12:54 pm

Olto wrote:
rayiner wrote:While this thread is as old as dirt, I'd like to again point out the idiocy of the original poster. Went to Vermont Law, did well, got interest from legal employers in Vermont, then moved to NYC without a job... :roll:

Dude make mistake after another, and "going to law school" was not the foremost of them. And WTF is up with the "MBA from a local college"? I assume he knows that non name-brand MBAs are just as useless as non name-brand JDs?



I don't think it's right that all of you guys are calling him an idiot for moving back to his hometown, where his SO lives. You would THINK that a law degree from a well-known state school would have at least some portability in a neighboring state no less. However, it's clear that this economy has turned all of that around. He's just trying to be helpful to any students who might be in his situation: going to a regional school with hopes of returning back home to practice. Maybe it just isn't a good option anymore.

It's always easier to point fingers at someone on an anonymous internet message board, but I bet in person you would feel bad for the guy. And, if not, well, I'm sorry that you are so pessimistic.


UIUC is a well-known state school with portability within the region. Minnesota is a well-known state school with portability within the region. Vermont Law School is a private Tier 3 school.

The economy isn't what did him in, he would've been hosed during the boom too.

Olto
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Olto » Tue May 12, 2009 12:58 pm

rayiner wrote:
UIUC is a well-known state school with portability within the region. Minnesota is a well-known state school with portability within the region. Vermont Law School is a private Tier 3 school.

The economy isn't what did him in, he would've been hosed during the boom too.



Shows how much I know... I took from his post that it was a state school and just assumed that. Either way, I feel like if you say you went to "Vermont Law" most people would associate it with the pretty well-known University of Vermont (which is what I thought originally). I still don't retract what I said because countless people make the same "mistake" every day and it's only people on this site who make them feel like garbage for it.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby rayiner » Tue May 12, 2009 12:59 pm

Olto wrote:Again, only people who live on TLS know the ins-and-outs of the process. Most people who apply to law school don't make the admissions process their #1 most-visited website.


You would think, that before investing $40k/year on a law school, that people would do some research. The first time I bought a nice pair of shoes, I hit up the Ask Andy forum to do some research on brands. I found some nice brands and saved myself from a $400 mistake. If someone is too stupid to do that sort of research for something that costs 100 times more PER YEAR, then they deserve to be ridiculed.

EDIT: FWIW, a friend of a friend is graduating from VLS this year. No job yet... She went there because of the #1 ranked Environmental Law program. Of course, my friends and her friends are all like "congrats! are you going to work for the NRDC?" because they have no clue. They have an excuse --- they're engineers and business majors, they do not, and need not, know jack about law. She... I don't know that she does...
Last edited by rayiner on Tue May 12, 2009 1:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Cleareyes
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:59 pm

Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Cleareyes » Tue May 12, 2009 1:01 pm

Anyone who would invest three years of their life and a crapton of money into going to law school without doing some very basic research into how the legal market works probably deserves what they get. It's not just moving from a regional school to another region (which is tough) but moving from a regional school to the NEW YORK CITY region which is the most competitive legal market in the country (DC is comparable)

Also while it's true that Vermont borders New York State, you can't look at the Northeast geographically because there are just so many people. 100 miles in the Northeast does not equal 100 miles in Texas in terms of calculating regionality. Do you know how many law schools there are closer to NY than Vermont is?




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests