Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

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ihateusnews
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Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby ihateusnews » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:22 am

I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.

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rayiner
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby rayiner » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:24 am

So you went to a no-name school in Vermont, got interest from employers in Vermont, and are now lamenting your terrible choice?

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LawandOrder
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby LawandOrder » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:26 am

Breaking news guys!!! TTTs are a terrible choice! :shock: :shock: :shock: Thank you so much for this newsflash. I don't know how I ever could have figured it out without you.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Cleareyes » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:27 am

rayiner wrote:So you went to a no-name school in Vermont, got interest from employers in Vermont, and are now lamenting your terrible choice?


Yes.

Law school can be a terrible choice if you do no research, have unrealistic expectations, and do not understand how the legal market works.

So, umm, don't do those things.

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srb
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby srb » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:33 am

I personally am shocked and astonished that your degree from VERMONT didn't allow an easy breakthrough to the NEW YORK legal market. New York has no reputation at all for being a hard market to get into, so this really is surprising. I don't know if I'm going to be able to get over the shock. I think I'm quitting this law school idea.

Edit: You also aren't just losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. You're also losing out to Columbia, NYU, and Fordham grads, along with every other feeder school for NYC law firms. Even if you just take the top 15% of each of those (which you don't have to, since Columbia, NYU, and Fordham grads place a lot more than 15% of the class in NYC), that's a lot of competition for you, my friend.
Last edited by srb on Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sawwaverunner
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby sawwaverunner » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:34 am

ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.


Classy ending.

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jackrabbitjones
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby jackrabbitjones » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:37 am

Play by the rules:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66974

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:mrgreen:

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jewtangclan03
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby jewtangclan03 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:38 am

Law school can be a terrible choice if you make a terrible choice. If your numbers are such that even a Seton Hall wouldn't give you any money, perhaps that should have been the first indicator that perhaps the legal profession wasn't for you. Also, I think reasonable man would have told you to go to Vermont only if you wanted to practice there. Did/do you have any employment opportunities up there?

I am sure you have no reason to be jealous to the NYLS and Touro grads you speak of-- my guess is they're going through the same thing you are right now. Anyways, good luck, hope things work out for you.

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LitGeek4Life
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby LitGeek4Life » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:46 am

Once a professor told me that if you think one of your degrees is a negative for a particular position, remove it from your resume. She even advised us have the M.A. and Ph.D. from different schools so this was possible. Apparently, if you're not advertising that education, you're not expecting to be paid at that level, so maybe it will help. Maybe not points for honesty, but there's nothing about "full disclosure" on a resume as long as everything on it is accurate.

de5igual
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby de5igual » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:57 am

sawwaverunner wrote:


Classy ending.[/quote]

lulz :lol: i was thinking the same thing

huckabees
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby huckabees » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:11 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
rayiner wrote:So you went to a no-name school in Vermont, got interest from employers in Vermont, and are now lamenting your terrible choice?


Yes.

Law school can be a terrible choice if you do no research, have unrealistic expectations, and do not understand how the legal market works.

So, umm, don't do those things.


Yep

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Blindmelon
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:17 pm

My best advice for you is to propose to your girlfriend. Given your current employment, etc. bagging a doctor would be ideal. She could help you pay off your loans, and you could be a stay at home dad.

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blondie
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby blondie » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:27 pm

This is absolutely ridiculous. The OP failed to do his research prior to choosing a law school. He attended a regional school with the intention of gaining employment outside the school's reach upon graduation. Gee, no wonder it's been hard.

It's pretty stupid, IMO, that he would rather work at IHop than try once again to land a job in Vermont. Surely it would put a strain on his relationship, but at least he could gain some experience that might eventually make him more appealing to employers closer to where he wants to live. Anything has got to be better than slinging pancakes and french toast for a living.

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ZakD
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby ZakD » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:29 pm

blondie wrote:This is absolutely ridiculous. The OP failed to do his research prior to choosing a law school. He attended a regional school with the intention of gaining employment outside the school's reach upon graduation. Gee, no wonder it's been hard.

It's pretty stupid, IMO, that he would rather work at IHop than try once again to land a job in Vermont. Surely it would put a strain on his relationship, but at least he could gain some experience that might eventually make him more appealing to employers closer to where he wants to live. Anything has got to be better than slinging pancakes and french toast for a living.



But stuffed french toast is back, and for a limited time only!

jrock12
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby jrock12 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:34 pm

horrible UG + TTT = no job = no surprise

thank you for wasting time

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blondie
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby blondie » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:34 pm

ZakD wrote:
blondie wrote:This is absolutely ridiculous. The OP failed to do his research prior to choosing a law school. He attended a regional school with the intention of gaining employment outside the school's reach upon graduation. Gee, no wonder it's been hard.

It's pretty stupid, IMO, that he would rather work at IHop than try once again to land a job in Vermont. Surely it would put a strain on his relationship, but at least he could gain some experience that might eventually make him more appealing to employers closer to where he wants to live. Anything has got to be better than slinging pancakes and french toast for a living.



But stuffed french toast is back, and for a limited time only!


Yum! I wonder if the OP can send me some coupons?

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Jay Phatsby
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Jay Phatsby » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:36 pm

ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.


listen to this man's wise advice

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Kohinoor
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:51 pm

ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.
Sounds like you had doors opened for you that you rejected because you wanted a path that you took no real steps towards. Fail.

Mr. Guppy
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby Mr. Guppy » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:54 pm

Maybe this would be better served if it was posted on the "In at Vermont" thread. Is there an "In at Vermont" thread?

ihateusnews
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby ihateusnews » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:12 pm

Still I would've thought employers would be more interested in me than someone at the bottom of the class at Touro. Touro is lower tier 4. Vermont is upper tier 3.

Half the time, at my part-time job for a solo, I don't even work at the law firm. He owns a pizza place below the office, so I work there sometimes too.

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rayiner
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby rayiner » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:18 pm

ihateusnews wrote:Still I would've thought employers would be more interested in me than someone at the bottom of the class at Touro. Touro is lower tier 4. Vermont is upper tier 3.


Are the T3/T4 schools even ordered within the tiers?

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srb
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby srb » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:19 pm

ihateusnews wrote:Still I would've thought employers would be more interested in me than someone at the bottom of the class at Touro. Touro is lower tier 4. Vermont is upper tier 3.

Half the time, at my part-time job for a solo, I don't even work at the law firm. He owns a pizza place below the office, so I work there sometimes too.


Flame.

And the guy from Touro probably doesn't have a job either. Not that I've ever heard of Touro...

sbalive
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby sbalive » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:21 pm

rayiner wrote:
ihateusnews wrote:Still I would've thought employers would be more interested in me than someone at the bottom of the class at Touro. Touro is lower tier 4. Vermont is upper tier 3.


Are the T3/T4 schools even ordered within the tiers?


Every so often there's a leak of T3/T4 lists that are in non-alphabetical order, and people assume that is the "real ranking" that US News "conceals". Of course, given the 100-point scoring system, at that point everything dissolves into mush, so there's a good reason why it's all resolved as a giant tie. (I think there's like a 10-way tie for 87 this year or something.)

jrock12
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby jrock12 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:22 pm

ihateusnews wrote:Still I would've thought employers would be more interested in me than someone at the bottom of the class at Touro. Touro is lower tier 4. Vermont is upper tier 3.

Half the time, at my part-time job for a solo, I don't even work at the law firm. He owns a pizza place below the office, so I work there sometimes too.


whats the phone #? and do you deliver to mid-town? my office hasnt ordered lunch yet...discount maybe?

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blondie
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Re: Reasonable_Man is Right Law School Can be a Terrible Choice

Postby blondie » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:34 pm

Jay Phatsby wrote:
ihateusnews wrote:I attended a TTT, and was not as fortunate as him. I grew up on Long Island, and went to Ramapo College in Jersey. Had some good opportunities with my Management degree, but passed them up to go to law school.

I got into Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Vermont Law (my mother's a hippie so we used to go to Vermont on vacation). Seton Hall was expensive at sticker, and Hofstra and Vermont offered me scholarships. I chose Vermont because it was cheaper and HofsTTTra's bar passage rate is awful.

So three years later, in 2008, I was unable to secure a decent job in NYC or Long Island. I graduated in the top 15% of my class at Vermont, but kept on losing out to Hofstra, Touro, Brooklyn Law School, St. John's, and New York Law School grads. My girlfriend is a medical school student on Long Island, and I really wanted to return, so I graduated jobless, even though employers in Vermont were very interested in me.

I took and passed the New York and Massachusetts bars, and recently started working 2 days a week for a solo in the Bronx. If that's not bad enough, I am a waiter at IHOP in Massapequa to pay the bills while I search for something better. It annoys me that law schools are so local in recruitment scope. I really think that I have more to offer than someone toward the bottom of the class at New York Law School or Touro, but unfortunately employers do not agree. Hofstra is an especially large toilet.

I have a management degree from undergrad, and an MBA obtained with night and summer classes from a nearby college. However, non-law employers screen me out of consideration because they think a law degree makes me overqualified and I would be a huge flight risk to leave for a higher-paying legal job.

At least my girlfriend is somewhat understanding. Her cousin is a Cooley Law graduate, so I look good compared to him.


listen to this man's wise advice


"Wise?" Did I miss something? Or did Big Bird declare that today is "opposite day?"

The guy had job opportunities in Vermont, he passed them up to work at IHop and deliver pizzas so he could be closer to his girlfriend. He can't have his pancakes and eat them too.




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