Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
danconstan
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:42 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby danconstan » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:09 pm

midwesterner wrote:
dapoetic1 wrote:
midwesterner wrote:I'm sorry US News, but these ranking just seem to validate everyones suspicion that they are not a valid measure of a school's worth and are mostly arbitrary.

There is no way George Washington and Boston College are not top 25 schools.
Indiana U a top 25? Alabama a top 30? These are solid state schools to be sure, but there is no reason they should be ranked where they are based on national recognition and placement.

Ken… or someone smart enough and willing to do it should put together a law school ranking system which reflects national recognition and placement. This is what students want to know when they look at rankings – not (outside of a few) the scholarly productivity of a faculty and the number of volumes in the library. National recognition and placement please. Because looking at this system a student might pick Indiana U over Boston College or George Washington and then be sorely disappointed come time to search for that job in New York or DC.


Aside from this poster is everyone else really that shallow and naive to think that USNews has any F-ng clue what they're talking about?
Do people not realize that one school deciding to spend X amount of money on some arbitrary part of the school can cause that school to drop or increase one or two spots which can in turn cause a completely random school to drop or increase 10 spots. These rankings are RIDICULOUS!!!
Not one school on this list changed in rankings because the professors beame more accessible, or the number of advanced coursed grew, or the tuition became more affordable, or the number of employers that actively recruit grew, or it's students got more clinical training or any of a number of reason that would make a law school great.
Stop feeding in to this bullshit!
Oh my school is now number 17 instead of number 22--So the F What!!! It's the same school it was when you applied and it'll be the same school when you graduate. Is it not clear that if a school can drop 10 spots or increase 20 spots this year the same thing can happen next year. So if you're school is number 20 this year and drops to 30 next year are you going to transfer out? Highly unlikely!
I find in incredibly frustrating and almost unbelievable that a bunch of future lawyers are willing to let a non-legal magazine tell you what the best law school is without ranking any of the actual important data about that school.
This has to be the most futile bit of information I've ever read. I've heard that people can be ranking-whores but Jesus H. Christ seeing it for myself now...I feel sorry for those of you that think US news is helping you to somehow make one of the biggest decisions in your life.



I'm sorry you have the impression that I think US news has any idea what they are doing... because I completely agree with you. But what frustrates me is that people do care about the rankings and most students assume they do reflect something about the quality of a law school.

Law school is an expensive, and an increasingly risky proposition. I think pre-law students deserve some kind of ranking that helps in this decision. The main thing most of us care about is how well our school is known and how well it places. Unfortunatley US news provides almost no help here.



+1...I think it's funny that there is so much excitment over the release of the rankings considering that throughout the year there has been a general consensus on this forum that the USNWR rankings should not be a large factor in picking a law school...Oh well...I guess lets just continue giving USNWR more publicity...

mithan
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 2:10 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby mithan » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:11 pm

PT #s is not included in the overall ranking.

pasteurizedmilk wrote:I see the anti-GULC trolling wasn't warranted......though I am surprised they didn't take at least a slight drop from the inclusion of part time stats. I wonder if they saw this coming and managed PT stats last year to prevent any drop?

gatorfan787
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:45 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby gatorfan787 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:13 pm

Thanks for the clarification...

Sad for UF - Levin, drop from tier 1 to tier 2.

User avatar
darkarmour
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:38 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby darkarmour » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:14 pm

Don't you guys like how Elie on ATL fucked up and "broke" old information? Jesus christ, the scans have been up forever, and he goes and posts the black and white one?

User avatar
IzziesGal
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:11 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby IzziesGal » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:15 pm

Does anyone know how waitlist-to-admits factor into the rankings?? For example, if someone is waitlisted with lower numbers and then gets accepted right before classes start, are their numbers factored in or do they sort of drop off into a black hole of law school numbers somewhere??

Only asking because waitlists seemed to be pretty huge to me....

jackusay
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby jackusay » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:17 pm

"could this [Florida's drop in the rankings] be due to the extreme budget cuts that the state university system is suffering? "

Maybe. It might also be that federal court complaint against the dean and law school that's floating around out there. Whatever you think of that particular set of allegations, UF has had a pretty gnarly history of racial problems....

User avatar
kimber1028
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:59 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby kimber1028 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:19 pm

darkarmour wrote:Don't you guys like how Elie on ATL fucked up and "broke" old information? Jesus christ, the scans have been up forever, and he goes and posts the black and white one?


Just read it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
mrman17
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:53 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby mrman17 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:20 pm

gatorfan787 wrote:Thanks for the clarification...

Sad for UF - Levin, drop from tier 1 to tier 2.



Is there really a difference anyway between the the 50th and 51st ranked schools? Or low T vs. high TT in general?

I don't think that the overall quality of Florida has really changed that much over the last 12 months. If anything, it just shows how arbitrary the whole T1 vs. T2 thing really is...at a certain point.

It's interesting to see how fluid these rankings are.

User avatar
observationalist
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:55 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby observationalist » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:26 pm

IzziesGal wrote:Does anyone know how waitlist-to-admits factor into the rankings?? For example, if someone is waitlisted with lower numbers and then gets accepted right before classes start, are their numbers factored in or do they sort of drop off into a black hole of law school numbers somewhere??

Only asking because waitlists seemed to be pretty huge to me....


They factor in for reporting. Adcomms call it the "summer melt"... it's when they strive to fill each available spot due to other WL movement without losing too much ground in median numbers. I think most schools account for a certain amount of melt, which if done correctly actually gives them more wiggle room to select people off the WL who they like without paying so much attention to their gpa/lsats. That improves WL-accept chances for people who write the school, visit, establish a rapport with the adcomms, etc. Schools that don't do as good a job managing their incoming class #s risk seeing their medians drop as a result of the summer melt.

User avatar
Zeph
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:22 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby Zeph » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:37 pm

observationalist wrote:
IzziesGal wrote:Does anyone know how waitlist-to-admits factor into the rankings?? For example, if someone is waitlisted with lower numbers and then gets accepted right before classes start, are their numbers factored in or do they sort of drop off into a black hole of law school numbers somewhere??

Only asking because waitlists seemed to be pretty huge to me....


They factor in for reporting. Adcomms call it the "summer melt"... it's when they strive to fill each available spot due to other WL movement without losing too much ground in median numbers. I think most schools account for a certain amount of melt, which if done correctly actually gives them more wiggle room to select people off the WL who they like without paying so much attention to their gpa/lsats. That improves WL-accept chances for people who write the school, visit, establish a rapport with the adcomms, etc. Schools that don't do as good a job managing their incoming class #s risk seeing their medians drop as a result of the summer melt.


I too was interested in that answer, thanks for the response

User avatar
treple
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:06 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby treple » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:47 pm

Thanks for posting the rankings, it is of course much appreciated.
Ken wrote:
Berkeley remaining at 6th (tied with Chicago) is impressive. Dean Edley is really doing a great job on continually improving the law school. Berkeley had a lower acceptance rate than Harvard (11% for Berkeley, 12% for Harvard), showing how selective Berkeley is but that they look beyond the numbers.


It could also just be that more people applied to Berkeley than Harvard and that given their respective class sizes Berkeley was allowed to reject more. Also the notion that Berkeley looks beyond the numbers and Harvard doesn't is just silly. Both factor in numbers and softs pretty significantly, there simply is no metric to determine which one factors in 'beyond the numbers' more.

User avatar
gk101
Posts: 3675
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby gk101 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:50 pm

treple wrote:Thanks for posting the rankings, it is of course much appreciated.
Ken wrote:
Berkeley remaining at 6th (tied with Chicago) is impressive. Dean Edley is really doing a great job on continually improving the law school. Berkeley had a lower acceptance rate than Harvard (11% for Berkeley, 12% for Harvard), showing how selective Berkeley is but that they look beyond the numbers.


It could also just be that more people applied to Berkeley than Harvard and that given their respective class sizes Berkeley was allowed to reject more. Also the notion that Berkeley looks beyond the numbers and Harvard doesn't is just silly. Both factor in numbers and softs pretty significantly, there simply is no metric to determine which one factors in 'beyond the numbers' more.


banned for berk bashing and harvard trolling

User avatar
quetzalcoatl
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:23 am

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby quetzalcoatl » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:52 pm

Im just so glad the median stats didnt shoot through the roof like many posters predicted. Stats are definitely up, but I was worried that I would have to retake to raise my 170 if I wanted to go top 10. Looks like I will be ok for the most part, as long as I dont screw my GPA in the last 2 semesters.

Is anyone planning on changing their apps next cycle in light of the new rankings? Im pretty much forced to go ED at Columbia now (still dont have a chance but its the largest reach im applying to), but no major changes for me.

User avatar
youpiiz
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:01 am

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby youpiiz » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:52 pm

.
Last edited by youpiiz on Mon May 11, 2009 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
IzziesGal
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:11 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby IzziesGal » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:52 pm

gk101 wrote:
treple wrote:Thanks for posting the rankings, it is of course much appreciated.
Ken wrote:
Berkeley remaining at 6th (tied with Chicago) is impressive. Dean Edley is really doing a great job on continually improving the law school. Berkeley had a lower acceptance rate than Harvard (11% for Berkeley, 12% for Harvard), showing how selective Berkeley is but that they look beyond the numbers.


It could also just be that more people applied to Berkeley than Harvard and that given their respective class sizes Berkeley was allowed to reject more. Also the notion that Berkeley looks beyond the numbers and Harvard doesn't is just silly. Both factor in numbers and softs pretty significantly, there simply is no metric to determine which one factors in 'beyond the numbers' more.


banned for berk bashing and harvard trolling


+1. There's no way that Harvard looks at whole applicants just as much as Berkeley does. I got into Berkeley with my 161 because I have a strong package overall, and Berkeley was willing to look beyond my 161 in order to see that. When I visited the Harvard admissions table at the LSAC forum prior to taking the LSAT, I asked what else I would need to do in order to get in (I explained I had been practicing in the high 160s), and they said (and I quote): "Take the LSAT and get in the 170s." That alone tells me that they couldn't care less about softs.

User avatar
gk101
Posts: 3675
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby gk101 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:54 pm

IzziesGal wrote:
gk101 wrote:
treple wrote:Thanks for posting the rankings, it is of course much appreciated.
Ken wrote:
Berkeley remaining at 6th (tied with Chicago) is impressive. Dean Edley is really doing a great job on continually improving the law school. Berkeley had a lower acceptance rate than Harvard (11% for Berkeley, 12% for Harvard), showing how selective Berkeley is but that they look beyond the numbers.


It could also just be that more people applied to Berkeley than Harvard and that given their respective class sizes Berkeley was allowed to reject more. Also the notion that Berkeley looks beyond the numbers and Harvard doesn't is just silly. Both factor in numbers and softs pretty significantly, there simply is no metric to determine which one factors in 'beyond the numbers' more.


banned for berk bashing and harvard trolling


+1. There's no way that Harvard looks at whole applicants just as much as Berkeley does. I got into Berkeley with my 161 because I have a strong package overall, and Berkeley was willing to look beyond my 161 in order to see that. When I visited the Harvard admissions table at the LSAC forum prior to taking the LSAT, I asked what else I would need to do in order to get in (I explained I had been practicing in the high 160s), and they said (and I quote): "Take the LSAT and get in the 170s." That alone tells me that they couldn't care less about softs.


i wish I hadn't used up all my facepalm pics

User avatar
rambo de leon
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:15 am

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby rambo de leon » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:54 pm

ruleser wrote:Sounds good - in any case, Loyola has to be very upset - headed toward the bottom of these rankings, and their PT program below UC San Diego... and some gloating at UC Davis for sure...\

Think your talking about USD. UC San Diego doesn't have a law school but it would be cool if they did. Great location...maybe in a few years they'll do the enticing free ride dance akin to UCI. 8)

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby 20160810 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:55 pm

Tremendous showing for USD. Almost enough to make me wonder if it will be T1 eventually. That wouldn't shock me: It's the best law school in one of the 10 largest cities in the US (and probably the coolest city in the US at that), so there is plenty of demand for the service they provide.

cantstop
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:32 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby cantstop » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:00 pm

IzziesGal wrote:
gk101 wrote:
treple wrote:Thanks for posting the rankings, it is of course much appreciated.
Ken wrote:
Berkeley remaining at 6th (tied with Chicago) is impressive. Dean Edley is really doing a great job on continually improving the law school. Berkeley had a lower acceptance rate than Harvard (11% for Berkeley, 12% for Harvard), showing how selective Berkeley is but that they look beyond the numbers.


It could also just be that more people applied to Berkeley than Harvard and that given their respective class sizes Berkeley was allowed to reject more. Also the notion that Berkeley looks beyond the numbers and Harvard doesn't is just silly. Both factor in numbers and softs pretty significantly, there simply is no metric to determine which one factors in 'beyond the numbers' more.


banned for berk bashing and harvard trolling


+1. There's no way that Harvard looks at whole applicants just as much as Berkeley does. I got into Berkeley with my 161 because I have a strong package overall, and Berkeley was willing to look beyond my 161 in order to see that. When I visited the Harvard admissions table at the LSAC forum prior to taking the LSAT, I asked what else I would need to do in order to get in (I explained I had been practicing in the high 160s), and they said (and I quote): "Take the LSAT and get in the 170s." That alone tells me that they couldn't care less about softs.


Uh, not that I don't doubt your particular story, but my guess is for every one of you, there are 100 of me (with a 161, a HIGH GPA, great softs, etc.) who were rejected within weeks of Berkeley receiving my application. Although their rejection letter was definitely the nicest I've received. Ever.

redskinsgibbs
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:16 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby redskinsgibbs » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:01 pm

Why do people give a damn about these rankings? Miami still owns the south. No 11 point increase in rankings will me a damn. Cardozo according to you rankings experts is close to gutter in NY is now a " T1" It is not going to help them vs Fordham. NYU and the other T14s.

Who gives a damn if the rankings change each year? I really doubt GW is going to struggle placing students in DC.

User avatar
IzziesGal
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:11 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby IzziesGal » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:02 pm

cantstop wrote:Uh, not that I don't doubt your particular story, but my guess is for every one of you, there are 100 of me (with a 161, a HIGH GPA, great softs, etc.) who were rejected within weeks of Berkeley receiving my application. Although their rejection letter was definitely the nicest I've received. Ever.


I believe I was fortunate enough to have someone on the adcomm advocate for me pretty passionately. Not all 161s with high GPAs and great softs can be admitted (unfortunately!)...I'm just saying that you are more likely to get into Berkeley than into Harvard with those numbers, just because of its admissions approach. Just sayin'. Sorry about the rejection :(

sbalive
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby sbalive » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:03 pm

redskinsgibbs wrote:Why do people give a damn about these rankings? Miami still owns the south. No 11 point increase in rankings will me a damn. Cardozo according to you rankings experts is close to gutter in NY is now a " T1" It is not going to help them vs Fordham. NYU and the other T14s.

Who gives a damn if the rankings change each year? I really doubt GW is going to struggle placing students in DC.


Such anger...

User avatar
coolkatz321
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:31 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby coolkatz321 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:04 pm

redskinsgibbs wrote:Why do people give a damn about these rankings? Miami still owns the south. No 11 point increase in rankings will me a damn. Cardozo according to you rankings experts is close to gutter in NY is now a " T1" It is not going to help them vs Fordham. NYU and the other T14s.

Who gives a damn if the rankings change each year? I really doubt GW is going to struggle placing students in DC.


Miami owns the south? What the hell are you smoking? They own the Miami area, and that's it.

User avatar
hopeforthebest
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:46 am

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby hopeforthebest » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:08 pm

coolkatz321 wrote:
redskinsgibbs wrote:Why do people give a damn about these rankings? Miami still owns the south. No 11 point increase in rankings will me a damn. Cardozo according to you rankings experts is close to gutter in NY is now a " T1" It is not going to help them vs Fordham. NYU and the other T14s.

Who gives a damn if the rankings change each year? I really doubt GW is going to struggle placing students in DC.


Miami owns the south? What the hell are you smoking? They own the Miami area, and that's it.


How appropriate, considering today's date... :lol:

sbalive
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:05 pm

Re: Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings

Postby sbalive » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:08 pm

hopeforthebest wrote:
coolkatz321 wrote:
redskinsgibbs wrote:Why do people give a damn about these rankings? Miami still owns the south. No 11 point increase in rankings will me a damn. Cardozo according to you rankings experts is close to gutter in NY is now a " T1" It is not going to help them vs Fordham. NYU and the other T14s.

Who gives a damn if the rankings change each year? I really doubt GW is going to struggle placing students in DC.


Miami owns the south? What the hell are you smoking? They own the Miami area, and that's it.


How appropriate, considering today's date... :lol:


Doesn't seem very mellow though... 8)




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests