RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

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lawschoollll
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Re: The "How Bad Really Is Legal Employment ITE?" Thread

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:41 pm

electricfeel wrote:
Veyron wrote:I approve of what you are trying to do here. However, outside of actualy talking to a hiring partner, I don't know who has the information we seek. I will tell you that every law student I've spoken to at a legit school or who graduated from a legit school w/i the past 2 years has a 6 figure job lined up but somehow I don't think that this is representative.


Define "legit school"

Yale.

theantiscalia
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Re: The "How Bad Really Is Legal Employment ITE?" Thread

Postby theantiscalia » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:43 pm

Veyron wrote:
electricfeel wrote:
Veyron wrote:I approve of what you are trying to do here. However, outside of actualy talking to a hiring partner, I don't know who has the information we seek. I will tell you that every law student I've spoken to at a legit school or who graduated from a legit school w/i the past 2 years has a 6 figure job lined up but somehow I don't think that this is representative.


Define "legit school"


Top dog schools in my region in addition to T-14 schools

Oh, its 100% true but my sample size is small, 5-10 kids. Don't know why this is so difficult to believe.


I don't think it's that hard to believe... I have 20-30 friends that graduated from T1 over the past three years. They're all fine, but I will say they didn't all get six figures, and I know several of them were deferred (although they got a stipend).

theantiscalia
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Re: The "How Bad Really Is Legal Employment ITE?" Thread

Postby theantiscalia » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:19 pm

Veyron wrote:
electricfeel wrote:
Veyron wrote:I approve of what you are trying to do here. However, outside of actualy talking to a hiring partner, I don't know who has the information we seek. I will tell you that every law student I've spoken to at a legit school or who graduated from a legit school w/i the past 2 years has a 6 figure job lined up but somehow I don't think that this is representative.


Define "legit school"


Top dog schools in my region in addition to T-14 schools

Oh, its 100% true but my sample size is small, 5-10 kids. Don't know why this is so difficult to believe.


So this thread died a premature death after it was moved. Input? Anybody? Come on, TLS, I know you have opinions!

newyorklaw23
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Re: The "How Bad Really Is Legal Employment ITE?" Thread

Postby newyorklaw23 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:12 pm

theantiscalia wrote:
Veyron wrote:
electricfeel wrote:
Veyron wrote:I approve of what you are trying to do here. However, outside of actualy talking to a hiring partner, I don't know who has the information we seek. I will tell you that every law student I've spoken to at a legit school or who graduated from a legit school w/i the past 2 years has a 6 figure job lined up but somehow I don't think that this is representative.


Define "legit school"


Top dog schools in my region in addition to T-14 schools

Oh, its 100% true but my sample size is small, 5-10 kids. Don't know why this is so difficult to believe.


So this thread died a premature death after it was moved. Input? Anybody? Come on, TLS, I know you have opinions!



I have a similar experience. I have about 20 friends or acquaintances who have finished t20 law schools between 2005-2010 and they all seem to be doing okay. I'm not doubting that legal economy is in dire straits, but anecdotally the people i know seem to be doing fine.

INFOTECHPROXIMITY9
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby INFOTECHPROXIMITY9 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:01 am

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nycparalegal
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby nycparalegal » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:16 pm

nystateofmind wrote:Well I wont even be in law school until 2013 and won't graduate until 2016, but I'm pretty sure things won't turn out as bad as some people may think. I'm pretty convinced the sky is not falling and if it is, then everyone's screwed regardless.


I think things are turning out pretty bad. After reading Paul Krugman's article in the NYT, I'm pretty convinced that we are heading into a long economic depression and right now we are only in ACT I.

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nystateofmind
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby nystateofmind » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:44 pm

nycparalegal wrote:
nystateofmind wrote:Well I wont even be in law school until 2013 and won't graduate until 2016, but I'm pretty sure things won't turn out as bad as some people may think. I'm pretty convinced the sky is not falling and if it is, then everyone's screwed regardless.


I think things are turning out pretty bad. After reading Paul Krugman's article in the NYT, I'm pretty convinced that we are heading into a long economic depression and right now we are only in ACT I.


Well if that's the case then I would rather have an advanced degree than just a bachelor's. Only thing is that I will refuse to pay sticker at any school if the economy stays in the gutter. I would go to Cornell or Georgetown over Harvard if they were offering me more scholarship money.

summoner
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby summoner » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:14 pm

I've got to say, this forum doesn't make too much sense. Are people convinced the legal job market is in this shape purely because of the economy? If the economy was still booming there would still be a lot of lawyers out of work, there are just too many law schools producing too many graduates for too few positions. I graduated in 2006 and it was a struggle finding something (I know people who graduated with me who never really did find legal work). Do you all think that if the economy improves you're going to have an easy time of it?

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YCrevolution
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby YCrevolution » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:16 pm

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MTal
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby MTal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:23 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
summoner wrote:I've got to say, this forum doesn't make too much sense. Are people convinced the legal job market is in this shape purely because of the economy? If the economy was still booming there would still be a lot of lawyers out of work, there are just too many law schools producing too many graduates for too few positions. I graduated in 2006 and it was a struggle finding something (I know people who graduated with me who never really did find legal work). Do you all think that if the economy improves you're going to have an easy time of it?

There are too many college graduates, too.


Not necessarily, there are just too many college graduates with worthless liberal arts degrees like women/ethnic studies. Think what our society could be life if they all graduated as engineers instead.

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YCrevolution
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby YCrevolution » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:25 pm

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coldskull
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby coldskull » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:00 pm

Talking of engineers....is the outlook equally bad in the field of IP law.? (for someone from T10 with solid engineering background and workex)

I am new to the board and did forage through the various threads :)....but couldnt find specific anecdotes for IP law.

tobecomealawyer
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby tobecomealawyer » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:46 pm

coldskull wrote:Talking of engineers....is the outlook equally bad in the field of IP law.? (for someone from T10 with solid engineering background and workex)

I am new to the board and did forage through the various threads :)....but couldnt find specific anecdotes for IP law.


From what I understand, it isn't as bad for IP, because the field is restricted to those with hard science backgrounds... which is rare for people entering LS. I think you have to pass a patent bar though...

tobecomealawyer
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Re: The "How Bad Really Is Legal Employment ITE?" Thread

Postby tobecomealawyer » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:56 pm

theantiscalia wrote:Over the past few months, I've become a regular reader of this site, ATL, and a few other blogs (Third Tier Reality, JD Underground, First Tier Toilet). Some of the blogs create a horrendous picture of life after a JD, while sometimes things on this site appear a bit rosy.

Anecdotally, every friend of mine that went to a Top 30 law school and graduated in 2008, 2009, or 2010 had a job at graduation. (Admittedly, my friends in the third tier were not so fortunate.) The NALP paints a bad picture, but it isn't easy to split out third and first tier data from first and second tier, and they use the same data as the schools. And while mainstream media have reported the market weakened (see the WSJ or NPR), they haven't reported the "sky is falling" mentality on some of the blogs. Good data just seems hard to come by.

I'd like to get everybody's estimation of how bad things are REALLY... cutting through the nonsense... by saying how much they think school's employment numbers are over-inflated. With most Tier One schools reporting an "employed at graduation rate" for 2009 in at least the mid-80s, it does seem rosy, but plausible. When people talk about how inflated these numbers are, by what percentage are they generally referring to? Ten percent over-inflated? Twenty?

Your thoughts?


I'd guess 10% is fair. Some schools don't like (to their detriment in US News) and some lie far more than 10%... they're called the fourth tier...

towkthi
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby towkthi » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:10 pm

coldskull wrote:Talking of engineers....is the outlook equally bad in the field of IP law.? (for someone from T10 with solid engineering background and workex)

I am new to the board and did forage through the various threads :)....but couldnt find specific anecdotes for IP law.


I'm also curious about the IP field? Is it one of the few areas in law growing?

radek
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby radek » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:57 pm

towkthi wrote:
coldskull wrote:Talking of engineers....is the outlook equally bad in the field of IP law.? (for someone from T10 with solid engineering background and workex)

I am new to the board and did forage through the various threads :)....but couldnt find specific anecdotes for IP law.


I'm also curious about the IP field? Is it one of the few areas in law growing?


check out the latest bcgsearch report for analysis of the relative strengths of practice areas ITE: --LinkRemoved--

In general, your level of competition for jobs in the IP field depends on whether you're interested in patent prosecution or IP litigation. If you're interest in patent prosecution, the ease with which you get market-paying offers depends on your area of technical expertise and your level of expertise in that area (B.S., M.S., PhD). It's no longer like the good old days when everyone with an in-demand engineering degree and a T10 law degree was showered with biglaw offers.

For IP litigation, the competition is about the same as it is for any other field of law given that there's no real barrier to entry like there is for patent prosecution.

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Kswizzie
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby Kswizzie » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:15 pm

summoner wrote:
Not necessarily, there are just too many college graduates with worthless liberal arts degrees like women/ethnic studies. Think what our society could be life if they all graduated as engineers instead.


Full of anti-social weirdos? Not to offend any engineers, but in my experience that's what a lot of your kind is like.

blsingindisguise
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:29 am

Q: Why does this board get to have 500 "HOW DO I SHOT LOGICAL RESONIG" threads and 1000 "WAT SCHOOLS CAN I GET INTO WITH 168/3.1415" threads and only one thread about anything bad going on in the legal market?

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YCrevolution
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby YCrevolution » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:31 am

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Southernlaw57
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby Southernlaw57 » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:13 am

Just got an email from my undergrad English Dept. listserve encouraging students to apply for jobs in developing countries like India. Unpaid jobs.

It's bad out (t)here.

spinecho202
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby spinecho202 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:17 am

i'm not in law shcool, but for what its worth, my current employer (think banking) use to hire about 20 /student per year when I graduated in my office....now we hire about 7, and only from top tier b-ugrads (Penn ect.), it's probably by far our most qualified class in years...everyone use to be just liberal arts or business from top regional schools, not national

summoner
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby summoner » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:05 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:Q: Why does this board get to have 500 "HOW DO I SHOT LOGICAL RESONIG" threads and 1000 "WAT SCHOOLS CAN I GET INTO WITH 168/3.1415" threads and only one thread about anything bad going on in the legal market?


This website profits financially from a lot of people with unrealistic law school goals. By consolidating it all into "Recession Panic Megapost" they try to accomplish three things:

1) Cut down on prospective law students seeing posts about the ridiculously bad market scattered among the various threads. Less eyeballs, less chance someone will see them.

2) State, completely untruthfully, that the recession is the cause of the legal hiring downturn, thus implying it will get better when the recession is over. Those of us in the field for a few years knew the legal education bubble was collapsing even before the economy got bad. The recession is just one factor, and frankly it's not even the biggest.

3) Denigrate the posts pointing out the horrible legal hiring situation with a snarky, sarcastic, mean-spirited, all-caps "RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST." Trying to make it seem silly, and irrational.

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beachbum
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby beachbum » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:08 pm

summoner wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:Q: Why does this board get to have 500 "HOW DO I SHOT LOGICAL RESONIG" threads and 1000 "WAT SCHOOLS CAN I GET INTO WITH 168/3.1415" threads and only one thread about anything bad going on in the legal market?


This website profits financially from a lot of people with unrealistic law school goals. By consolidating it all into "Recession Panic Megapost" they try to accomplish three things:

1) Cut down on prospective law students seeing posts about the ridiculously bad market scattered among the various threads. Less eyeballs, less chance someone will see them.

2) State, completely untruthfully, that the recession is the cause of the legal hiring downturn, thus implying it will get better when the recession is over. Those of us in the field for a few years knew the legal education bubble was collapsing even before the economy got bad. The recession is just one factor, and frankly it's not even the biggest.

3) Denigrate the posts pointing out the horrible legal hiring situation with a snarky, sarcastic, mean-spirited, all-caps "RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST." Trying to make it seem silly, and irrational.


It's a conspiracy!

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bk1
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby bk1 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:12 pm

lulz

summoner
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby summoner » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:15 pm

Oh, and enjoy, my special little snowflakes:

To get 160k out of biglaw she probably made top 10%. With two years of biglaw experience and good grades out of a good school, she had to turn to housecleaning, and still can't get any takers. But tell us how with no experience at all you'll be able to get a job out of law school.
summoner wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:Q: Why does this board get to have 500 "HOW DO I SHOT LOGICAL RESONIG" threads and 1000 "WAT SCHOOLS CAN I GET INTO WITH 168/3.1415" threads and only one thread about anything bad going on in the legal market?


This website profits financially from a lot of people with unrealistic law school goals. By consolidating it all into "Recession Panic Megapost" they try to accomplish three things:

1) Cut down on prospective law students seeing posts about the ridiculously bad market scattered among the various threads. Less eyeballs, less chance someone will see them.

2) State, completely untruthfully, that the recession is the cause of the legal hiring downturn, thus implying it will get better when the recession is over. Those of us in the field for a few years knew the legal education bubble was collapsing even before the economy got bad. The recession is just one factor, and frankly it's not even the biggest.

3) Denigrate the posts pointing out the horrible legal hiring situation with a snarky, sarcastic, mean-spirited, all-caps "RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST." Trying to make it seem silly, and irrational.




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