RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

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PhantaManta
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Re: Three years of law school + bar admission for $17 an hour!

Postby PhantaManta » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:26 pm

The 90% of graduates who didn't get big law at T2 are all making 17$ an hour?! O NOES!

criket876
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Re: Three years of law school + bar admission for $17 an hour!

Postby criket876 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:30 pm

Does farter actually get paid to do this all day? I wonder if someone somewhere is making money from dissuading people from going in to law... Any ideas?

I just can't believe that someone would have enough time to voluntarily post shit like this day in day out.... It must get old, right?

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M51
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Re: New York Times Knows How to Fix the Legal Profession

Postby M51 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:45 pm

It's nothing new...
even before the economy went to shit, people have been talking about the totally ineffienct biglaw structure for years (especially after industry standard starting salaries went from 100k in '02 to 160k in '07 and billable hours made a similar jump).

I do think it's a bit rediculous to compare the salaries at a private law firm to a government position... know how many people make more than the president? Isn't that rediculous?!?!??!?!? ... No. :?

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Brucewaynegretzky
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Re: New York Times Knows How to Fix the Legal Profession

Postby Brucewaynegretzky » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:48 pm

Ok I agree that there should be some changes, but say they start to reform the system as we go to/ graduate law school and before tuition starts to go down salaries start to fall. Really sucks for us then doesn't it?

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M51
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Re: New York Times Knows How to Fix the Legal Profession

Postby M51 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:54 pm

Brucewaynegretzky wrote:Ok I agree that there should be some changes, but say they start to reform the system as we go to/ graduate law school and before tuition starts to go down salaries start to fall. Really sucks for us then doesn't it?


Yes. It really sucks for us. This'll be one of those rare points everyone on TLS can get behind :o

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RVP11
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Re: New York Times Knows How to Fix the Legal Profession

Postby RVP11 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:54 pm

C'mon now. Schools aren't going to drop tuition just because the BigLaw payoff isn't as great.

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20160810
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Re: Three years of law school + bar admission for $17 an hour!

Postby 20160810 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:59 pm

There is a thread for this shit. It's been posted here. This time it's a lock. Next time it's a ban. Take heed, Sir Farts!

skadden_farts
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More than 1/3 of legal jobs have already vanished

Postby skadden_farts » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:40 pm

More bad news from today;s New York Law Journal:

--LinkRemoved--


More than one-third of the legal services jobs created since the 2001 recession have vanished in the current downturn, an analysis of Bureau of Labor Statistics data shows.
Since the recession began in December 2007, the legal services sector has lost an estimated 24,900 jobs. Those losses continued through March of this year, with legal services employers shedding another 2,700 jobs, according to the latest BLS report, released Friday. (Download "The Employment Situation: March 2009")

The 24,900 jobs lost in this recession contrasts with the 72,800 created between November 2001, when the previous economic downturn ended, and November 2007. That means 34.2 percent of the jobs law firms and other legal services providers created since the dot-com bust have disappeared thanks to the current financial crisis.

Looked at another way, the last time this few people were employed in the legal sector was before October 2003.

And with layoffs at large law firms continuing into April, expectations are that those losses aren't about to stop. On Thursday, Mayer Brown laid off 135 people and Hogan & Hartson cut 93 staffers.

Dozens of firms across the country laid off lawyers and staff members last month. In Connecticut, Robinson & Cole cut 30 jobs last week, while in California, Manatt, Phelps & Phillips eliminated 30 lawyers and staffers. And after months of quiet, layoffs finally hit Texas, where Baker Botts, Winstead and others laid off lawyers and staff.

Firms the conducted large layoffs in March included Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe, which laid off 300 people; Reed Smith, which cut 100 jobs; Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson, which eliminated 99 positions; and Dechert, which laid off 125 people.

huckabees
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Re: More than 1/3 of legal jobs have already vanished

Postby huckabees » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:41 pm

skadden_farts wrote:More bad news from today;s New York Law Journal:

--LinkRemoved--


More than one-third of the legal services jobs created since the 2001 recession have vanished in the current downturn, an analysis of Bureau of Labor Statistics data shows.
Since the recession began in December 2007, the legal services sector has lost an estimated 24,900 jobs. Those losses continued through March of this year, with legal services employers shedding another 2,700 jobs, according to the latest BLS report, released Friday. (Download "The Employment Situation: March 2009")

The 24,900 jobs lost in this recession contrasts with the 72,800 created between November 2001, when the previous economic downturn ended, and November 2007. That means 34.2 percent of the jobs law firms and other legal services providers created since the dot-com bust have disappeared thanks to the current financial crisis.

Looked at another way, the last time this few people were employed in the legal sector was before October 2003.

And with layoffs at large law firms continuing into April, expectations are that those losses aren't about to stop. On Thursday, Mayer Brown laid off 135 people and Hogan & Hartson cut 93 staffers.

Dozens of firms across the country laid off lawyers and staff members last month. In Connecticut, Robinson & Cole cut 30 jobs last week, while in California, Manatt, Phelps & Phillips eliminated 30 lawyers and staffers. And after months of quiet, layoffs finally hit Texas, where Baker Botts, Winstead and others laid off lawyers and staff.

Firms the conducted large layoffs in March included Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe, which laid off 300 people; Reed Smith, which cut 100 jobs; Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson, which eliminated 99 positions; and Dechert, which laid off 125 people.


Please post such news only in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66974

Thank you!

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20160810
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Re: More than 1/3 of legal jobs have already vanished

Postby 20160810 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:48 pm

You just can't play by the rules, can you? Adios, amigo.

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acr0504
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Current Law Students and Recent Grads, You Don't Scare Me...

Postby acr0504 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:51 pm

Sooooo, maybe you're posting all the "scary economy" and "law jobs disappearing" threads because you don't want US to come and compete with you for your jobs....well, I for one am not scared. Don't let your own insecurities turn into bad karma....thanks.

CaptainDirtyBird
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Re: Current Law Students and Recent Grads, You Don't Scare Me...

Postby CaptainDirtyBird » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:55 pm

Flame. Somebodies mommy didn't give enought attention did she?

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crystalhawkeye
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Re: Current Law Students and Recent Grads, You Don't Scare Me...

Postby crystalhawkeye » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:57 pm

There is a thread for all the economy knocking/chatting/celebrating (maybe not this one...). Follow the link; thread locked.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66974

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crystalhawkeye
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Re: New York Times Knows How to Fix the Legal Profession

Postby crystalhawkeye » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:01 pm

This article has been posted three times. Apparently you are the only ones that have yet to see it. Well, here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66974

Continue your discussion there, please.

seriousthing
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby seriousthing » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:34 am

Hey guys, Skadden Farts and BigMistake come across harshly, but what they're saying is, for the most part, true. The legal market is contracting fast. Can you imagine interviewing against 20, 30 or even more applicants as equally qualified as you? It's intimidating, believe me.

Many of you really want to be lawyers. Nothing wrong with that. But you're gonna have to truly work your ass off, because everyone's going to be in recession/panic mode, working harder.

The difference between "now" and "then" is that until now students who didn't make law review, even those with shitty grades, were still able to find decent law jobs.

The other 80% of your law class will claw against each other for random positions at small firms, government agencies, public interest offices, etc. Those jobs are awarded based on work experience, journal membership, and personality. So make your resume as competitive as possible.

Many of your classmates will not ultimately practice law. That's because when SallieMae comes calling for their money, it really doesn't matter whether you're actually practicing law or working some other paper-pushing white-collar job for the same pay.

I wouldn't advise anyone against law school, because that's their choice. I made a choice, and right now I regret it. However, I am practicing law, and I can't say things won't improve or that I won't love it in ten years. Just please keep in mind that law is not as it's portrayed in the glossy brochures, the statistics are MARKETING DEVICES, the administrators are PR hacks, and your debt WILL COME DUE.

Take it seriously. Good luck.

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lawgrl09
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby lawgrl09 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:56 am

I am so glad to see that people are finally discussing what's actually happening in the legal world right now, rather than fantasizing about class rank, BigLaw, and raking in the money.

I posted these links in another thread a few weeks ago in response to a poster who criticized a school's career development office because the 3Ls said during his/her that they couldn't find jobs:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved-- (Wolf Block finally did dissolve)

I'm a paralegal at a BigLaw firm and things are pretty scary. It doesn't stop me from wanting to go to law school and the market may or may not improve when the class of 2012 graduates... but at least I have my eyes wide open to the facts. And I hope that more people on TLS will have their eyes open too.
Last edited by lawgrl09 on Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

davosdank
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby davosdank » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:58 am

lawgrl09 wrote:I am so glad to see that people are finally discussing what's actually happening in the legal world right now, rather than fantasizing about class rank, BigLaw, and raking in the money.

I posted these links in another thread a few weeks ago:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--

I'm a paralegal at a BigLaw firm and things are pretty scary. It doesn't stop me from wanting to go to law school, but at least I have my eyes wide open to the facts.


wait, do you not want biglaw or something? what school are you going to go to

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lawgrl09
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby lawgrl09 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:04 am

davosdank wrote:
lawgrl09 wrote:I am so glad to see that people are finally discussing what's actually happening in the legal world right now, rather than fantasizing about class rank, BigLaw, and raking in the money.

I posted these links in another thread a few weeks ago:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--

I'm a paralegal at a BigLaw firm and things are pretty scary. It doesn't stop me from wanting to go to law school, but at least I have my eyes wide open to the facts.


wait, do you not want biglaw or something? what school are you going to go to


I would consider BigLaw in order to pay off my loans - and then do something else with my life because I actually want to have a family and see them. And I'm on a bunch of waiting lists, so I don't know which school I'll be going to just yet.

But that's not the point. Partners, associates, billable, and non-billable staff at BigLaw and small boutique firms are losing their jobs on a daily basis. And not just one or two people here and there. But by the dozens. And they're not finding legal jobs elsewhere because there aren't any.

If you click on the above link about Orrick, you'll see that first year associates are having delayed starts and summer associate programmes are being cut back. It doesn't matter what school you attend. Everyone is affected. Whether you're a 3L at Fordham (a friend of mine who doesn't have any job prospects), recent graduate of Cornell (another friend of mine), or a graduate of Widener Law (my coworker who is a contract attorney b/c that's all she could find).
Last edited by lawgrl09 on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

davosdank
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby davosdank » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:06 am

lawgrl09 wrote:
davosdank wrote:
lawgrl09 wrote:I am so glad to see that people are finally discussing what's actually happening in the legal world right now, rather than fantasizing about class rank, BigLaw, and raking in the money.

I posted these links in another thread a few weeks ago:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--

I'm a paralegal at a BigLaw firm and things are pretty scary. It doesn't stop me from wanting to go to law school, but at least I have my eyes wide open to the facts.


wait, do you not want biglaw or something? what school are you going to go to


I would consider BigLaw in order to pay off my loans - and then do something else with my life because I actually want to have a family and see them. And I'm on a bunch of waiting lists, so I don't know which school I'll be going to just yet.

But that's not the point. Partners, associates, billable, and non-billable staff at BigLaw and small boutique firms are losing their jobs on a daily basis. And not just one or two people here and there. But by the dozens. And they're not finding legal jobs elsewhere because there aren't any.


so what makes you think you'd be able to get a non-existant job? i'm not following your logic, from what you tell me, it sounds like you can't get biglaw if you want it, but you plan to?

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lawgrl09
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby lawgrl09 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:09 am

davosdank wrote:
lawgrl09 wrote:
davosdank wrote:
lawgrl09 wrote:I am so glad to see that people are finally discussing what's actually happening in the legal world right now, rather than fantasizing about class rank, BigLaw, and raking in the money.

I posted these links in another thread a few weeks ago:

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--

I'm a paralegal at a BigLaw firm and things are pretty scary. It doesn't stop me from wanting to go to law school, but at least I have my eyes wide open to the facts.


wait, do you not want biglaw or something? what school are you going to go to


I would consider BigLaw in order to pay off my loans - and then do something else with my life because I actually want to have a family and see them. And I'm on a bunch of waiting lists, so I don't know which school I'll be going to just yet.

But that's not the point. Partners, associates, billable, and non-billable staff at BigLaw and small boutique firms are losing their jobs on a daily basis. And not just one or two people here and there. But by the dozens. And they're not finding legal jobs elsewhere because there aren't any.


so what makes you think you'd be able to get a non-existant job? i'm not following your logic, from what you tell me, it sounds like you can't get biglaw if you want it, but you plan to?



Are you being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative? Or are you just not listening? I didn't say that I will get or will want a BigLaw job. I said I would consider it. But in this current market, it's not a strong reality. My original point is that people on TLS talk about wanting BigLaw jobs. But the jobs aren't there.

davosdank
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby davosdank » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:12 am

so all t10 grads are SoL for 2012?

or are you speaking more generally

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lawgrl09
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby lawgrl09 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:15 am

To me "SoL" means "standard of living" so I don't know what you mean.

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Cleareyes
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby Cleareyes » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:17 am

lawgrl09 wrote:To me "SoL" means "standard of living" so I don't know what you mean.


SoL=Shit Out of Luck.

davosdank
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby davosdank » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:21 am

Cleareyes wrote:
lawgrl09 wrote:To me "SoL" means "standard of living" so I don't know what you mean.


SoL=Shit Out of Luck.


exactly

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lawgrl09
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Re: RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here!

Postby lawgrl09 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:23 am

Cleareyes wrote:
lawgrl09 wrote:To me "SoL" means "standard of living" so I don't know what you mean.


SoL=Shit Out of Luck.


Thanks for the clarification. I'm not saying don't go to law school and I'm not into the whole "if you can't get into a T10 or T20, don't bother going thing." Law schools are, for the most part, regional and their career networks are strongest in the city closest to them.

I'm saying that regardless of where you go, the market is going to be tough the next few years and it may not be any better for those of us in class of 2012. In a sense, everyone is out of luck until the market improves. So in answer to your question, don't go to a big rank school assuming that a BigLaw job will fall into your lap. Go to law school because you want to learn the law. Not because you want a fantastic lifestyle or can't think of something better to do.




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