NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

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AlanShore
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NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby AlanShore » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:04 pm

Just for clarification purposes--

Does the NLJ 250 account for all the "big law" firms or are some big law firms not included on the list? I know the NLJ 250 accounts for the 250 biggest firms but I was just wondering if there are many other firms pay a similar starting salary but are not included on that list? Thanks in advanced.

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dapoetic1
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby dapoetic1 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:07 pm

NLJ stands for National Law Jouranl. It's a publication, and they have a methodology for chosing the 250 firms that make up the 250. That's it.
Just because of a firm is not a NLJ250 doesn't mean it's not biglaw, and there are A LOT more firms in the country and around the world that are big law firms.
And not all "great" law firms are large in number.

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pany1985
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby pany1985 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:10 pm

A lot of fairly big firms (especially in secondary markets) are not on the list

magnumxlv
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby magnumxlv » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:12 pm

Do the entire NLJ250 pay market?

chadstew55
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby chadstew55 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:13 pm

magnumxlv wrote:Do the entire NLJ250 pay market?

no

I think the cut-off for being in the NLJ 250 is somewhere around 170 attorneys. So if you consider a firm with less than around 170 attorneys biglaw, then no, all the biglaw firms are not in the NLJ250.
Last edited by chadstew55 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dapoetic1
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby dapoetic1 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:15 pm

Here's the way the NLJ come up with the 250 firms, and a link to what they are currently paying associates

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2425778391



This is The National Law Journal's 31st annual survey of the nation's 250 largest law firms, covering the period of Oct. 1, 2007, to Sept. 30, 2008. While most of the charts in the NLJ 250 are self-explanatory, here is some information about the process, the criteria and the definitions.

The NLJ sent surveys to approximately 300 law firms and solicited survey submissions to determine the 250 largest.

Eligibility for the NLJ 250 is based on a firm's total number of attorneys, not including contract or temporary attorneys. The cutoff point this year is 174. Also, a firm must have more lawyers based in the United States than in any other single country to qualify.

Firms are ranked by the total number of full-time equivalent (FTE) attorneys, rather than just full-time attorneys. In some cases, due to rounding, this calculation resulted in slightly higher or lower numbers than the figures submitted by the law firms.

In case of a tie, we rank firms by the actual number of attorneys, before rounding. If a tie still exists, we rank firms by the total number of partners and then by the number of equity partners. The city listed under the firm name is the firm's principal or largest office.

"Number of attorneys" reflects permanent, FTE attorneys. The first column in the "Partners" category is the total number of partners, including the nonequity partners (NE) listed in the adjacent column. The same is true for the chart reflecting overall partner and nonequity partner growth.

The "Other" category includes the total number of nonpartner, nonassociate lawyers at the firm. Generally, this includes counsel, of counsel, senior counsel and staff attorneys.

In some instances, NLJ 250 firms merged. In those cases, the 2007 data are taken from the firm that was larger.

"Starting salary" lists the base salary for a first-year associate. Some firms vary depending on branch office.

A "WND" or "N/A" in any column indicates that the firm would not disclose the data or it was not available. The "Branch Offices" section lists the total number of attorneys in each city where the firm has offices. A zero indicates that less than one full-time attorney works in that city.

Minor discrepancies between the total number of attorneys at a firm and the total number of attorneys reported in branch offices are due to rounding FTE figures.

Firms marked with an asterisk have data obtained from the National Association for Law Placement online 2008/2009 Directory of Legal Employers as of October 2008. Firms marked with a plus sign have data obtained from the firm's Web site as of October 2008.

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rayiner
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby rayiner » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:18 pm

The NLJ250 is roughly a proxy for all biglaw firms, with a few exceptions:

1) It's not very accurate for the west coast, texas, and the south; a lot of market-paying firms in those areas are not NLJ250
2) It doesn't include patent boutiques and the like which usually pay market

NLJ250 placement pretty much == biglaw placement for law schools in NYC/Chicago, but dramatically understates it for places like UT or UCLA.

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pany1985
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby pany1985 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:18 pm

Any firm with about 100 or more attorneys seems pretty big to a lil' old country boy like me

Heck, 50 lawyers kinda sounds like a lot

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OperaSoprano
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:23 pm

I always thought 101+ lawyers = biglaw.

patentlaw
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Re: NLJ 250 = ALL the big law firms?

Postby patentlaw » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:42 pm

rayiner wrote:The NLJ250 is roughly a proxy for all biglaw firms, with a few exceptions:

1) It's not very accurate for the west coast, texas, and the south; a lot of market-paying firms in those areas are not NLJ250
2) It doesn't include patent boutiques and the like which usually pay market

NLJ250 placement pretty much == biglaw placement for law schools in NYC/Chicago, but dramatically understates it for places like UT or UCLA.


I wouldn't consider biglaw to equate to paying market. Boutiques of all sorts (including patent boutiques) pay very well but wouldn't be considered biglaw. To me, Biglaw is a combination of size and salary, I'd think that the NLJ250 is overinclusive and would include most biglaw firms.




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