Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

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Precisionxy
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Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby Precisionxy » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:33 pm

Any reasons for applying to St. John's if your goals are as follows:
land a biglaw job in NYC or a job with a mid-size firm making 100K+

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dapoetic1
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby dapoetic1 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:33 pm

Precisionxy wrote:Any reasons for applying to St. John's if your goals are as follows:
land a biglaw job in NYC or a job with a mid-size firm making 100K+



Full Scholarship

Snooker
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby Snooker » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:33 pm

Do not attend St. John's. If you are gonna attend a third tierlaw school, make sure you do it outside of NYC and the tuition should be 15k or under.

I recommend South Texas College of Law to everyone I come across. You'll graduate with 30k of debt, and start working at 55k as a real lawyer with a prestigious name behind you (how many third tier LS can claim a prestigious name?). At St. John's, there's a tiny chance of getting big law work, but most likely you'll start off earning 35k as a paralegal document reviewer and feel bitter about how things turned out.

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Ali
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby Ali » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:41 pm

Snooker,

last time i checked St. John's was ranked 88th. That's at least tier 2 or according to USNWR top 100 is tier 1.
It is not a tier 3 school.

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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby Snooker » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:22 am

I originally wrote TTT for St. John's, which is something the school is called regularly, but I changed it to "third tier" out of concern that the OP may not have learned what TTT means yet.

There have been plenty of horrible reports about St. John's career prospects for students graduating at the median. Huge debt and jobs paying in the 30-40k range in a city where a crackerbox apartment costs $1,200. Bloggers have written profuse warnings about attending this school because of the cost and crowded market.

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dapoetic1
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby dapoetic1 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:09 pm

I know someone that graduated from SJL and he works for Carter Ledyard making market.
He said that of the three schools where he applied SJL, Brooklyn, and NY Law he knows and most employers know that Brooklyn is the better choice. The reputation is stronger than the other three. If you're going to go to school in NY that's not Columbia, Cornell, NYU,or Fordham then you should consider Brooklyn.

But if you are set on SJL for one reason or another (like the fact that 50% of their students receive scholly's for 1/2 to full tuition) then don't think it's impossible to get a job.

Realistically you are going to have to be at least top 1/3 of your class to get your foot in the door at big law. You might even need to be on moot court, journal, or something else for them to consider you. But if you want to do mid-size law I think that's a lot more feasible. Definitely shoot for the best, but understand that there is so much more competition in NY than other places because of the sheer number of law schools in the area.

The competition at SJL can also be tough because everyone there is trying to break into the NY market and every student is going to have fight all the students from the above mentioned schools for jobs. Know what you're getting yourself into.

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Veritas
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby Veritas » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:12 pm

Snooker wrote:I originally wrote TTT for St. John's, which is something the school is called regularly, but I changed it to "third tier" out of concern that the OP may not have learned what TTT means yet.

There have been plenty of horrible reports about St. John's career prospects for students graduating at the median. Huge debt and jobs paying in the 30-40k range in a city where a crackerbox apartment costs $1,200. Bloggers have written profuse warnings about attending this school because of the cost and crowded market.

:roll:

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pany1985
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby pany1985 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:14 pm

I got a full scholly from them but I'm still really apprehensive and probably won't go. Something about having to remain in the top 50% of the class scares me, even though I think I could do it... I don't know if it's worth a 40k/yr gamble to see. Also, from what I've seen, they don't re-evaluate at the end of each year; it's every semester. It seems like it'd be a fairly easy scholarship to lose, and then you're stuck at a very expensive lower T2.

dreman510
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby dreman510 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:16 pm

Snooker, while I dont agree that its a TTT, I agree that St Johns is really towards the bottom of the barrel in a tough market. However, when you made the plug for South Texas College of Law, I stopped taking you seriously. Ive never heard of that place. :roll:

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observationalist
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby observationalist » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:30 pm

If you haven't done so yet, I'd look into their scholarship retention rule and see if it's as shady as Brooklyn's: put all the scholarship recipients in the same section and make them fight it out to see who gets to keep their $$$. That's harsh, considering some of the brightest incoming students (and presumably some of the best potential lawyers) will have their chances at a job crushed shortly into their law school career. Not to mention they were probably optimistic about staying in the top and keeping their scholarships, so they were grossly misinformed about the level of risk they were assuming. Anyone able to confirm/deny whether St. Johns employs this Thunderdome approach as well?

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dapoetic1
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby dapoetic1 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:32 pm

dreman510 wrote:Snooker, while I dont agree that its a TTT, I agree that St Johns is really towards the bottom of the barrel in a tough market. However, when you made the plug for South Texas College of Law, I stopped taking you seriously. Ive never heard of that place. :roll:



I've heard of South Texas (just by browsing), but I too was curious about the claim of having a prestigious name behind you. I'm not from Texas and I'm not familiar with the legal market there. But I am curious as to how South Texas stacks up against other schools in the state (and I would like to exclude UT-Austin because it is clearly in a different catagory of law schools). I know the school is in Houston (thank to google) but where does the "prestige" part come into play. And for the record I mean this in the least fecisious way possible. I truly don't know much about South Texas or the Houston market.

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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby dreman510 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:35 pm

dapoetic1 wrote:I know someone that graduated from SJL and he works for Carter Ledyard making market.
He said that of the three schools where he applied SJL, Brooklyn, and NY Law he knows and most employers know that Brooklyn is the better choice. The reputation is stronger than the other three. If you're going to go to school in NY that's not Columbia, Cornell, NYU,or Fordham then you should consider Brooklyn.

But if you are set on SJL for one reason or another (like the fact that 50% of their students receive scholly's for 1/2 to full tuition) then don't think it's impossible to get a job.

Realistically you are going to have to be at least top 1/3 of your class to get your foot in the door at big law. You might even need to be on moot court, journal, or something else for them to consider you. But if you want to do mid-size law I think that's a lot more feasible. Definitely shoot for the best, but understand that there is so much more competition in NY than other places because of the sheer number of law schools in the area.

The competition at SJL can also be tough because everyone there is trying to break into the NY market and every student is going to have fight all the students from the above mentioned schools for jobs. Know what you're getting yourself into.

From St. Johns, you are going to need a lot more than top 1/3. From Brooklyn/Dozo, you need top 10-20%, and from St. Johns its more like top 10%, and even then its no sure thing. More like top 5%.

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YCrevolution
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby YCrevolution » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:36 pm

dreman510 wrote:Snooker, while I dont agree that its a TTT, I agree that St Johns is really towards the bottom of the barrel in a tough market. However, when you made the plug for South Texas College of Law, I stopped taking you seriously. Ive never heard of that place. :roll:

They are an ABA school although it took them 10 years to move from provisional accreditation status to full accreditation status.

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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby dreman510 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:39 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
dreman510 wrote:Snooker, while I dont agree that its a TTT, I agree that St Johns is really towards the bottom of the barrel in a tough market. However, when you made the plug for South Texas College of Law, I stopped taking you seriously. Ive never heard of that place. :roll:

They are an ABA school although it took them 10 years to move from provisional accreditation status to full accreditation status.

Cooley is also ABA accredited. :lol:

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YCrevolution
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby YCrevolution » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:43 pm

dreman510 wrote:
YCrevolution wrote:
dreman510 wrote:Snooker, while I dont agree that its a TTT, I agree that St Johns is really towards the bottom of the barrel in a tough market. However, when you made the plug for South Texas College of Law, I stopped taking you seriously. Ive never heard of that place. :roll:

They are an ABA school although it took them 10 years to move from provisional accreditation status to full accreditation status.

Cooley is also ABA accredited. :lol:

But see, you have heard of Cooley. :D

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pany1985
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby pany1985 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:44 pm

World-Famous Cooley

That's what I like to call it

dreman510
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby dreman510 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:46 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
dreman510 wrote:
YCrevolution wrote:
dreman510 wrote:Snooker, while I dont agree that its a TTT, I agree that St Johns is really towards the bottom of the barrel in a tough market. However, when you made the plug for South Texas College of Law, I stopped taking you seriously. Ive never heard of that place. :roll:

They are an ABA school although it took them 10 years to move from provisional accreditation status to full accreditation status.

Cooley is also ABA accredited. :lol:

But see, you have heard of Cooley. :D

Point taken, but my point was that OP is mentioning a TTT in the middle of nowhere over a T2 in NYC

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observationalist
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby observationalist » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:51 pm

pany1985 wrote:I got a full scholly from them but I'm still really apprehensive and probably won't go. Something about having to remain in the top 50% of the class scares me, even though I think I could do it... I don't know if it's worth a 40k/yr gamble to see. Also, from what I've seen, they don't re-evaluate at the end of each year; it's every semester. It seems like it'd be a fairly easy scholarship to lose, and then you're stuck at a very expensive lower T2.


See my earlier post: there's a distinct possibility that your chances of keeping a scholly are even lower if they throw all the recipients into the same section and THEN tell them to stay in the top 1/2. By default, half the recipients will automatically lose their scholarships after the first semester/year, even though I'd think the vast majority of them were thinking going in, 'hey, I've got a scholarship so I'm more competitive than most of these people, and definitely stand to do better than at least half of them.' Can someone confirm/deny if this is true for the OP and others?

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LawandOrder
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby LawandOrder » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:04 pm

Any Good Reasons?


You enjoy being in hundred of thousands of dollars of debt with no way to pay it off?

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jewtangclan03
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby jewtangclan03 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:50 pm

LawandOrder wrote:Any Good Reasons?


You enjoy being in hundred of thousands of dollars of debt with no way to pay it off?
Any Good Reasons?


You enjoy being in hundred of thousands of dollars of debt with no way to pay it off?


For christ's sake people. Is it a good idea to pay sticker to go there? Of course not. But if you're recieving half to full tuition, finishing in the top 50% and keeping your scholarship isn't the most unattainble goal. Not when I've seen other schools that require top 1/3 or 3.X GPA to renew...

Is it going to be incredibly competitive when you've got NYU/Columbia/Fordham/BLS/Dozo to deal with? Yes. But is graduating with a JD from St. John's (disclaimer: at a discounted price) a death wish? I say no. In fact I'd say choosing that 20-30K scholarship at SJU is a lot smarter than BLS or Cardozo at full price.

I don't think one needs Biglaw to be able to work in NY/NJ market-- just live on LI or something.

Maybe I'm crazy. But I'd certainly go to St John's over some fucking TTT in the middle of nowhere.
Last edited by jewtangclan03 on Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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elgatonegro45
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby elgatonegro45 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:53 pm

Tons of hot Long Island girls among the student body.

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observationalist
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby observationalist » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:10 pm

jewtangclan03 wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Any Good Reasons?


You enjoy being in hundred of thousands of dollars of debt with no way to pay it off?
Any Good Reasons?


You enjoy being in hundred of thousands of dollars of debt with no way to pay it off?


For christ's sake people. Is it a good idea to pay sticker to go there? Of course not. But if you're recieving half to full tuition, finishing in the top 50% and keeping your scholarship isn't the most unattainble goal. Not when I've seen other schools that require top 1/3 or 3.X GPA to renew...

Is it going to be incredibly competitive when you've got NYU/Columbia/Fordham/BLS/Dozo to deal with? Yes. But is graduating with a JD from St. John's (disclaimer: at a discounted price) a death wish? I say no. In fact I'd say choosing that 20-30K scholarship at SJU is a lot smarter than BLS or Cardozo at full price.

I don't think one needs Biglaw to be able to work in NY/NJ market-- just live on LI or something.

Maybe I'm crazy. But I'd certainly go to St John's over some fucking TTT in the middle of nowhere.


I'm still looking for someone to answer whether St. John's throws all the scholarship folks into the same section and watches them scramble to land in the top half like Brooklyn does. If that's true the risk of losing your scholarship is unfortunately gonna be a lot higher.

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pany1985
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby pany1985 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:11 pm

I'd be interested to know as well, although I'm not sure if anyone here would really know for sure

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starlight007
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby starlight007 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:13 pm

elgatonegro45 wrote:Tons of hot Long Island girls among the student body.


really? I thought they were all at Hofstra & Touro lol

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observationalist
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Re: Any Good Reasons for deciding to Attend St. John's Law

Postby observationalist » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:17 pm

pany1985 wrote:I'd be interested to know as well, although I'm not sure if anyone here would really know for sure


I mean, there's got to be at least one St. John's current student on these boards who does know. The Brooklyn survivor method has been well documented (though I think they might even have a top 1/3 requirement). It's definitely worth looking into before accepting a scholarship.




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