Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

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dapoetic1
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby dapoetic1 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:37 pm

If you have $100k in debt just think of the same way you would a mortgage.

Obviously peopel that make less than $60,000/year are able to afford mortgages that are easily $100k+
The payback terms are essentially equal.
So it's not impossible to make that amount of money and pay off the debt.
Obviously you will not live lavilsy taking multiple exotic vacations evey year, driving the Aston Martin or having a summer house in the Hampton.
But if you have job satisfaction and realize that you will probably receive pay increases yearly you could be just fine.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:55 pm

legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check. Pretend you already went to the school you got accepted to and are thinking about attending. You graduated medium or around the bottom half of your class and are unemployed at graduation. After exhausting all resources, you have to start looking on your own. Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available. As an unemployed law graduate, I can say that this is one of the last places where there are job postings available right now. Look to see if you are willing to and don't mind working at these places whether as a contract attorney or an Insurance Defense attorney. Typically these firms pay $30K-$50K/year and STILL require decent grades, law school, law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.


You anti-law ppl crack me up. If you were in the bottom half of your class, and are still unemployed, that must mean that:
a) You aimed WAY too high for law school (going to Harvard when you just squeaked in, instead of going to Wisconsin, for argument's sake, with a good grant package or something) and didn't get the grades you should have to be in the top half of the class for this reason alone, or
b) your grades sucked balls because you didn't study or you didn't get it, period, which then proves you shouldn't have been in law school in the first place. How about this...people, STUDY, KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE, DO WELL, AND YOU WILL GET A JOB.

Saying that law jobs "STILL require decent grades, law school, law review..." is hilarious to me. I mean, I'd hope they'd require law school LOL (I'm guessing that part was a typo), but otherwise, no shit sherlock! Of course they require good grades! I wouldn't want to hire the dunces of the class either!

It's logical...go to a law school that fits your abilities and your goals. If you get into a law school where you know that you just barely squeaked in (if I got into Harvard, I'd know this outright, I'm not going to kid myself), keep in mind that there will be people there who will outscore you on tests and will be higher in the class than you. Study, get the best grades you can, and if you do well, YOU WILL FIND A JOB. I don't worry, I'm a hard worker, I know I'll find a job when I graduate. 8)

smalltown
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby smalltown » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:18 pm

You'll be able to find a job most of the time in the outposts of America. Take Wyoming, for example. There are literally not enough attorneys in the state. They are having real trouble just fulfilling people's rights to due process because they can't find enough lawyers to defend the people who need it, and similarly on the prosecutorial side they need quality people. There are lots of downsides, like it being, well, an outpost, and it's cold, and there isn't much to do, and it's cold, and there isn't a ton of culture. But the school there is very cheap, the energy economy there is booming and cost of living is quite low. So your money, which won't be a lot, seems like more. States like this are insulated, in terms of graduates from outside schools coming in, and also with highly influential governmental positions filled by state school grads. So if you can handle the downsides, it could be a good place to look.

And if you can't find a job as an attorney in Wyoming, the McDonald's in Douglas is offering $15 an hour.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:33 pm

smalltown wrote:You'll be able to find a job most of the time in the outposts of America. Take Wyoming, for example. There are literally not enough attorneys in the state. They are having real trouble just fulfilling people's rights to due process because they can't find enough lawyers to defend the people who need it, and similarly on the prosecutorial side they need quality people. There are lots of downsides, like it being, well, an outpost, and it's cold, and there isn't much to do, and it's cold, and there isn't a ton of culture. But the school there is very cheap, the energy economy there is booming and cost of living is quite low. So your money, which won't be a lot, seems like more. States like this are insulated, in terms of graduates from outside schools coming in, and also with highly influential governmental positions filled by state school grads. So if you can handle the downsides, it could be a good place to look.

And if you can't find a job as an attorney in Wyoming, the McDonald's in Douglas is offering $15 an hour.


LOLed inappropriately on my train at McDonalds...people are giving me dirty looks hahaha.

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takingmytime
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby takingmytime » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:46 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check. Pretend you already went to the school you got accepted to and are thinking about attending. You graduated medium or around the bottom half of your class and are unemployed at graduation. After exhausting all resources, you have to start looking on your own. Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available. As an unemployed law graduate, I can say that this is one of the last places where there are job postings available right now. Look to see if you are willing to and don't mind working at these places whether as a contract attorney or an Insurance Defense attorney. Typically these firms pay $30K-$50K/year and STILL require decent grades, law school, law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.


You anti-law ppl crack me up. If you were in the bottom half of your class, and are still unemployed, that must mean that:
a) You aimed WAY too high for law school (going to Harvard when you just squeaked in, instead of going to Wisconsin, for argument's sake, with a good grant package or something) and didn't get the grades you should have to be in the top half of the class for this reason alone, or
b) your grades sucked balls because you didn't study or you didn't get it, period, which then proves you shouldn't have been in law school in the first place. How about this...people, STUDY, KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE, DO WELL, AND YOU WILL GET A JOB.

Saying that law jobs "STILL require decent grades, law school, law review..." is hilarious to me. I mean, I'd hope they'd require law school LOL (I'm guessing that part was a typo), but otherwise, no shit sherlock! Of course they require good grades! I wouldn't want to hire the dunces of the class either!

It's logical...go to a law school that fits your abilities and your goals. If you get into a law school where you know that you just barely squeaked in (if I got into Harvard, I'd know this outright, I'm not going to kid myself), keep in mind that there will be people there who will outscore you on tests and will be higher in the class than you. Study, get the best grades you can, and if you do well, YOU WILL FIND A JOB. I don't worry, I'm a hard worker, I know I'll find a job when I graduate. 8)


It's fine to go to a school where you just squeeked in or will have tons of debt as long as the financial burden and class rank risk is compensated by better job prospects. For example, if you barely squeek by and pay sticker at yale or harvard you're still going to do alright even if you graduate at the bottom of the class. CCN you just want to make sure your not at the bottom x percent. Point is, if you go to a good enough school then alot of the risk is mitigated.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:53 pm

takingmytime wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check. Pretend you already went to the school you got accepted to and are thinking about attending. You graduated medium or around the bottom half of your class and are unemployed at graduation. After exhausting all resources, you have to start looking on your own. Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available. As an unemployed law graduate, I can say that this is one of the last places where there are job postings available right now. Look to see if you are willing to and don't mind working at these places whether as a contract attorney or an Insurance Defense attorney. Typically these firms pay $30K-$50K/year and STILL require decent grades, law school, law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.


You anti-law ppl crack me up. If you were in the bottom half of your class, and are still unemployed, that must mean that:
a) You aimed WAY too high for law school (going to Harvard when you just squeaked in, instead of going to Wisconsin, for argument's sake, with a good grant package or something) and didn't get the grades you should have to be in the top half of the class for this reason alone, or
b) your grades sucked balls because you didn't study or you didn't get it, period, which then proves you shouldn't have been in law school in the first place. How about this...people, STUDY, KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE, DO WELL, AND YOU WILL GET A JOB.

Saying that law jobs "STILL require decent grades, law school, law review..." is hilarious to me. I mean, I'd hope they'd require law school LOL (I'm guessing that part was a typo), but otherwise, no shit sherlock! Of course they require good grades! I wouldn't want to hire the dunces of the class either!

It's logical...go to a law school that fits your abilities and your goals. If you get into a law school where you know that you just barely squeaked in (if I got into Harvard, I'd know this outright, I'm not going to kid myself), keep in mind that there will be people there who will outscore you on tests and will be higher in the class than you. Study, get the best grades you can, and if you do well, YOU WILL FIND A JOB. I don't worry, I'm a hard worker, I know I'll find a job when I graduate. 8)


It's fine to go to a school where you just squeeked in or will have tons of debt as long as the financial burden and class rank risk is compensated by better job prospects. For example, if you barely squeek by and pay sticker at yale or harvard you're still going to do alright even if you graduate at the bottom of the class. CCN you just want to make sure your not at the bottom x percent. Point is, if you go to a good enough school then alot of the risk is mitigated.


So you're telling me that a Biglaw firm would take a bottom of the barrel Harvard grad over someone who went to UW or UMN or whatever and was top of their class? I find that hard to believe, but if this is correct - have been rightly schooled.

tvaddicted
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby tvaddicted » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:07 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
takingmytime wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check. Pretend you already went to the school you got accepted to and are thinking about attending. You graduated medium or around the bottom half of your class and are unemployed at graduation. After exhausting all resources, you have to start looking on your own. Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available. As an unemployed law graduate, I can say that this is one of the last places where there are job postings available right now. Look to see if you are willing to and don't mind working at these places whether as a contract attorney or an Insurance Defense attorney. Typically these firms pay $30K-$50K/year and STILL require decent grades, law school, law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.


You anti-law ppl crack me up. If you were in the bottom half of your class, and are still unemployed, that must mean that:
a) You aimed WAY too high for law school (going to Harvard when you just squeaked in, instead of going to Wisconsin, for argument's sake, with a good grant package or something) and didn't get the grades you should have to be in the top half of the class for this reason alone, or
b) your grades sucked balls because you didn't study or you didn't get it, period, which then proves you shouldn't have been in law school in the first place. How about this...people, STUDY, KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE, DO WELL, AND YOU WILL GET A JOB.

Saying that law jobs "STILL require decent grades, law school, law review..." is hilarious to me. I mean, I'd hope they'd require law school LOL (I'm guessing that part was a typo), but otherwise, no shit sherlock! Of course they require good grades! I wouldn't want to hire the dunces of the class either!

It's logical...go to a law school that fits your abilities and your goals. If you get into a law school where you know that you just barely squeaked in (if I got into Harvard, I'd know this outright, I'm not going to kid myself), keep in mind that there will be people there who will outscore you on tests and will be higher in the class than you. Study, get the best grades you can, and if you do well, YOU WILL FIND A JOB. I don't worry, I'm a hard worker, I know I'll find a job when I graduate. 8)


It's fine to go to a school where you just squeeked in or will have tons of debt as long as the financial burden and class rank risk is compensated by better job prospects. For example, if you barely squeek by and pay sticker at yale or harvard you're still going to do alright even if you graduate at the bottom of the class. CCN you just want to make sure your not at the bottom x percent. Point is, if you go to a good enough school then alot of the risk is mitigated.


So you're telling me that a Biglaw firm would take a bottom of the barrel Harvard grad over someone who went to UW or UMN or whatever and was top of their class? I find that hard to believe, but if this is correct - have been rightly schooled.


Maybe not a big-law firm, but I am sure (or at least hope) that there are other private firms that aren't considered biglaw and that don't pay as much (but still pay well enough) where a Harvard grad who was not at the top of his or her class could land a job.

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dapoetic1
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby dapoetic1 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:08 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
takingmytime wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/

So you're telling me that a Biglaw firm would take a bottom of the barrel Harvard grad over someone who went to UW or UMN or whatever and was top of their class? I find that hard to believe, but if this is correct - have been rightly schooled.



I could buy this. I don't have any statistic on Harvard's bottom half vs. UW's top 10%

But both school teach the same basic classes, and if you didn't "get it" as one poster put it then you didn't get it and being at the bottom of a non-competitive place like Harvard certainly does not sit well for me. If I'm an employer I'm thinking either you don't know the law and therefore do not belong in my firm, or you thought because you went to Harvard you could piss away your time and get a job. And while the latter may be true as an employer I wouldn't hire that person. I certainly think being the top grad at a great school like UW or UMN would (at least) get the same consideration as someone that's bottom of the pile at Harvard. Maybe not necessarily get picked over the Harvard grad every time, but being the top will open up some of the same doors as being in the mid-range at Harvard. I saw the mid-range b/c the top range can effectively be discounted due to judicial clerkships. Equally a top grad at UW or UMN might be offered a clerkship that bottom half of Harvard grads wouldn't.

Yeah...I think there's some merit there.

Snooker
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby Snooker » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:15 pm

sba314 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check... Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available.

Another reality check: look at the same listings to see what jobs are available for a bachelor's degree in philosophy.


Reality check: the median salary, mid-career, for a philosophy major is higher than Accounting, Business Management, or Information Technology (their term for comp sci, programming, etc.).

http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp

Snooker
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby Snooker » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:17 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
takingmytime wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check. Pretend you already went to the school you got accepted to and are thinking about attending. You graduated medium or around the bottom half of your class and are unemployed at graduation. After exhausting all resources, you have to start looking on your own. Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available. As an unemployed law graduate, I can say that this is one of the last places where there are job postings available right now. Look to see if you are willing to and don't mind working at these places whether as a contract attorney or an Insurance Defense attorney. Typically these firms pay $30K-$50K/year and STILL require decent grades, law school, law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.


You anti-law ppl crack me up. If you were in the bottom half of your class, and are still unemployed, that must mean that:
a) You aimed WAY too high for law school (going to Harvard when you just squeaked in, instead of going to Wisconsin, for argument's sake, with a good grant package or something) and didn't get the grades you should have to be in the top half of the class for this reason alone, or
b) your grades sucked balls because you didn't study or you didn't get it, period, which then proves you shouldn't have been in law school in the first place. How about this...people, STUDY, KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE, DO WELL, AND YOU WILL GET A JOB.

Saying that law jobs "STILL require decent grades, law school, law review..." is hilarious to me. I mean, I'd hope they'd require law school LOL (I'm guessing that part was a typo), but otherwise, no shit sherlock! Of course they require good grades! I wouldn't want to hire the dunces of the class either!

It's logical...go to a law school that fits your abilities and your goals. If you get into a law school where you know that you just barely squeaked in (if I got into Harvard, I'd know this outright, I'm not going to kid myself), keep in mind that there will be people there who will outscore you on tests and will be higher in the class than you. Study, get the best grades you can, and if you do well, YOU WILL FIND A JOB. I don't worry, I'm a hard worker, I know I'll find a job when I graduate. 8)


It's fine to go to a school where you just squeeked in or will have tons of debt as long as the financial burden and class rank risk is compensated by better job prospects. For example, if you barely squeek by and pay sticker at yale or harvard you're still going to do alright even if you graduate at the bottom of the class. CCN you just want to make sure your not at the bottom x percent. Point is, if you go to a good enough school then alot of the risk is mitigated.


So you're telling me that a Biglaw firm would take a bottom of the barrel Harvard grad over someone who went to UW or UMN or whatever and was top of their class? I find that hard to believe, but if this is correct - have been rightly schooled.


Harvard's grading system doesn't report if you're in the bottom half. afaik, they give out high honors and everyone else is lumped in bottom 65%.So if you were #1 at another T20 school, you'd be in a better position than the average harvard grad.

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rayiner
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:20 pm

Snooker wrote:
sba314 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check... Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available.

Another reality check: look at the same listings to see what jobs are available for a bachelor's degree in philosophy.


Reality check: the median salary, mid-career, for a philosophy major is higher than Accounting, Business Management, or Information Technology (their term for comp sci, programming, etc.).

http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp


No, computer-science is their term for comp-sci, programming. IT is maintaining computer networks and stuff.

sbalive
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby sbalive » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:22 pm

Snooker wrote:Reality check: the median salary, mid-career, for a philosophy major is higher than Accounting, Business Management, or Information Technology (their term for comp sci, programming, etc.).

http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp


There's just a little bit of a FAIL there, unfortunately. While IT is below Philosophy on that list, Computer Science is above. Well above. A Bachelor's degree in IT is either one you get at one of the more vocationally oriented satellite campuses of state schools, or it's sometimes a word used for a more modern Library Science degree.

However, it is true that the median mid-career salary for a philosophy major is higher than someone in Biology or Chemistry - but that's no surprise, since in those fields it's well-understood that you need a MS for career advancement, so a large # of the lower salary people are self-selected to remain in tech positions. Of course, it might also all be crap. From the footnotes: "These results may not represent all graduates with these degrees."

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legalese_retard
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby legalese_retard » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:01 am

DO NOT pick a school like UW over a school like Harvard ONLY because you "squeeked in" and think you will graduate in the top 10% at a school like UW. Now if you got a full ride to UW and know for a fact that you want to stay and practice in Wisconsin and you have to pay full price for Harvard, then UW is probably a better option (it's all subjective). There are absolutely NO guarantees in law school. While there is SOME correlation between high LSAT scores/GPAs and law school class rankings, there are factors to consider when it comes to law school grades. Guess what, at top schools like Harvard, UW, UMinn, etc over 90% of your class is used to being the top 10% in their high school, undergrad, or grad school (and while my math sucks, I can tell you that 90% of your class is not going to be in the top 10%). I know several people from my graduating class who had higher LSAT scores than me but they did not graduate with honors when I did (I know this because they had close to full rides and I only "squeeked in").

If you are considering a lower tiered school because you want to ultimately transfer up, don't bank on your high admission stats at that lower tiered school and your ability to dominate. Remember, there is only ONE law school exam (for most law schools) that will determine your law school placement after your 1L year. You may understand everything about Contracts but fail miserably in Property. You may have a Masters in English, but get schooled in your Legal Research and Writing class. You are competing for your grade - understanding the material is not enough, you have to write your exam in such a way that the professor likes your answer the best. In my 1L Contracts class, out of 90 students only TWO A's were given. I'm sorry, but if you think you are going to be the Shit in every single law school class, more power to you - you should be picking out the references you want to use when you apply for a SCOTUS clerkship. For the REST of you who are more realistic about law school, make sure you research your law school, the professon, and above all don't assume anything.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby dextermorgan » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:31 am

I was all prepared to be an asshole and come in here and say "no shit" butttt...

Thanks for the links (and for not being another JDU troll).

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legalese_retard
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby legalese_retard » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:52 am

Thanks, I didn't come on here to be an "anti-law school" troll. No where in my posts do I say people should not go to law school...I only say that people should make an INFORMED decision before going to law school. Unfortunately, too many people convince themselves that they are going to law school no matter what law school they get into and no matter the cost. The consequences after law school are over 3 years away and folks are banking on the fact that the economy will be better and that they will be in the top percent of their class. I never posted on here when I was applying to law school (I think this site was barely around), but I did post on LSD. But I remembered seeing several posts of people with "Yeah!!!! I am going to law school!!!!!" followed by a post talking about how Florida International Coastal School of Law is a great school even though it costs $40K/year. I know because I was guilty of cheerleading everyone who got into any school without thinking of the consequences. In the end, it felt like an online Oprah show where everyone was practically hugging each other when someone with a sub-140 LSAT got into a non-accredited law school in California.

As I said in a different thread, I am struggling after graduation even after I went to a tier 1 law school and graduated in the top third of my class. At first I thought the failures I encountered after graduation were all me, but I am starting to accept the fact that the current economic condition is playing a bigger role in what I consider a failure after law school. Go check on AbovetheLaw about law firms either laying off attorneys or closing its doors all together. There have been 4 BIGLAW firms (over 200+ attorneys) that have failed since the economic downturn. Also note that several BIGLAW firms are firing FIRST YEAR associates and revoking SUMMER OFFERS. That almost NEVER happens as law firms would become blacklisted by future lawyers from big-named schools. You know how hard it is to find a job after being layed off as a first year in this economy? Just because you have the pedigree and the endorsement from a BIGLAW firm it does not mean that other BIGLAW or medium law firm will hire you. There are way too many lawyers with experience out that who are looking for work at law firms and WILLING to take a pay cut and take an entry-level salary. How does an entry-level associate compete with that.

People are also under the impression that the law profession is "recession proof" because people "always need a lawyer." Under most circumstances I would say this is true, but our current economy is worse than a recession because there are too many variables in play and way too much uncertainity. Even though Bankruptcy firms and Litigation Boutiques are over-worked and need more help, these firms are reluctant to hire because they don't know how long they will be busy. These firms are willing to turn away business before they hire new attorneys because they don't have the resources to train new associates and have plenty of experienced attorneys willing to work for the cheap. Also, while there is some truth in the statement "a law degree can take you anywhere," it has its limitations in a down-economy. When a person with a JD is applying to a non-law job like consulting, investment, tax planning, private equity, banking, etc a firm is going to question the intension of that applicant. An entry level person is viewed as a flight risk to these companies. They know that it's hard to find jobs as a lawyer and they also know that the new person they want to hire will probably try and become a lawyer when the economy gets good. Finally, don't think "but I don't want to be a private sector attorney, I want to work for the government or non-profit so it won't be as hard on me." Guess what, most DA and PD offices accross the country are on a hiring freeze. Even an assistant district attorney position for misdeamor cases in some rural town in Oklahoma is seeing a huge flux of resumes for a position that may or may not come into fruition. Most Legal Aid Offices are so overwhelmed with resumes that they are turning away attorneys who just want to do pro bono and help a few hours a week. And those "contract attorney" jobs that you where thinking about applying to to hold yourself over are usually only offered in big cities like NYC, DC, Chicago, Houston, and LA. Plus you are competing against Indian outsourcing temp agencies that only charge $10-15/hour which was recently approved by the ABA. Just like manufacturing, there is a massive exodous of doc review jobs heading to India even though there are a record number of lawyers graduating from law school and several new law schools slated to open. Yes, you can always open your own solo directly after law school - I wish you well with that, but note that about 70% of suspensions and bar license revocations happen to lawyers in solo shops for "minor" things like accidentially commingling funds or failure to respond to client phone calls. My PR professor in law school even said that the lawyers on the committees who created the PR rules that control the conduct of attorneys are from big law firms and were created to support these bigger law firms (I'll try and find the article that talks about the PR bias against solos).

These are MY experiences since graduating from law school. Hopefully the economy turns around by the time you graduate or hopefully you get a solid job offer before you graduate. What was crushing to hear was that my law school ranking and class ranking don't matter after 9 months after graduation - it is all about networking and luck. I know people way below me in my graduating class who got lucky because they applied to the right firm at the right time - firms no longer post on job boards because they already have too many unsolicited resumes to go through. Not to sound cliche, but it is a "brave new world" out there and it's affecting lawyers (especially the newly minted ones) a lot more than most folks ever considered.

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legalese_retard
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Re: Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

Postby legalese_retard » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:35 am

Regardless of what law school you go to or whether you go to law school at all, this kind of stuff can happen to the best of us. I used to think a degree from a good school would make me "invincible" during layoffs, not so much anymore. It's interesting to read the comments on ATL regarding this story. Most of the folks on there are from T-14 law schools and are in the big firms, but they are just as scared of layoffs as an assembly line worker at a GM plant.

--LinkRemoved--

It is December. The office feels empty, abandoned. I have finished every shred of billable work I could dredge up, and, as of a few days ago, exhausted the non-billable possibilities as well. My few pro bono matters have been reviewed and researched thoroughly, and I have no CLE requirements left to fulfill. I wonder idly if I can spend 70 or 80 hours on CLE, and then roll it over for the next few years, like cell phone minutes. Or maybe I can spend some time "organizing client files," which, incidentally, my cabinets are choked with.

One of our biggest clients, a huge lending institution, collapsed suddenly a few months ago, and the raft of cases that had been keeping me afloat burbled and sank virtually overnight. Most of them, which involve holding companies or subsidiaries that have not yet declared bankruptcy, are not officially dead: they are simply moribund, the paper equivalent of carrion. My office is an abattoir! I think. Though unfortunate, I wonder, does this present billable possibilities? How about "Administered last rites to dying cases; prepared dead matters for cremation and burial; performed obsequies for same"?

I try to tell myself that we are experiencing an early, holiday-related slump, but the truth is that things have been this way - painfully slow - for several months. We are all on edge, and growing progressively more nervous as work gets harder to come by. Associates spend the time not devoted to billable work complaining, worrying, regarding each other jealously, or trying to read tea leaves: why did he (or she) get that assignment? Does everyone know I'm looking for work? Why hasn't that case, mentioned in passing by a partner, materialized? Where did it go?

Making matters worse, the firm insists that business is booming, although we all know by now that several associates were axed during the last round of reviews (for unspecified "performance-related" reasons) and that, more recently, there has been a spate of staff layoffs, also unacknowledged. At our last litigation meeting, the department head announced cheerfully that things were "great," and that our group was "going like gangbusters!" In the stunned silence that followed, the associates looked at each other incredulously. Although, with few exceptions, no one was busy, a palpable sense of doubt settled over the room. Maybe, everyone seemed to wonder, it's just me.

So, for the past few months, most associates have occupied a strange netherworld. We are employed, but unable to believe that we have anything resembling job security. We come to work every day, but there is nothing there to do. Still, we can't bring ourselves to leave the office at a reasonable time, just in case someone happens by looking for an associate to do something - anything - after hours. We end up leaving late and tired, even though we have accomplished nothing.

My best friend at the firm, Giovanna, tells me every day that she is definitely getting fired; she spent the better part of three years working on a shareholder derivative class action, which settled over the summer. She is beginning to sound like Dustin Hoffman's character in "Rain Man." Definitely getting fired. Definitely. Ten minutes to Wapner. "That's crazy," I tell her. "You did a great job managing that case." She is adamant. "I don't do anything that someone younger and cheaper couldn't do," she tells me. "I'm fungible, like a widget."

Even as I try to convince her that she's safe, I am sure that I will be the next casualty. At my last review, I got a positive evaluation and a good bonus, and they told me it was one of the better bonuses given - a "way of saying, 'we're happy to have you here.'" It suddenly feels like a liability, since I have struggled to bill 150 hours a month since then, and the work I do manage to put on my timesheets has a distinctly fig-leafish quality. The night before Thanksgiving, for example, I went to visit a pro bono client in jail; although I usually try to time these visits not to coincide with the frustrating, time-sucking prisoner count, I am secretly relieved when I arrive just after it has started and have to wait for 45 minutes to see my client. When people ask me how work is, I quote Woody Allen: it's terrible, and the portions are too small.

So, as Christmas approaches, we try to balance the demands of eking out an existence with the imperative of staying sane, with mixed success. Giovanna and I bring lunch, purloin beverages from conference rooms, and decide to cut out Starbucks, all of which seems reasonable. We also seriously discuss making macaroni frames for Christmas gifts, and I wonder whether, at 34, it's too late to donate eggs to infertile couples, which seems very lucrative (if the subways ads are to be believed). These are a few of my stupider ideas.

On this particular day in December, I am antsy and nervous. I spent most of yesterday trolling the halls, knocking on doors and starting one conversation after another with anyone who might have work to give me. After a while, these interactions take on the cadence of a televangelist's pitch. We chat, I laugh at jokes, I feign interest in a lengthy disquisition on John McCain's crucial strategic errors, the recession, whether "Quantum of Solace" is a worthy Bond movie.

At some point, relevant or not, I bring the conversation back to work, and how desperately I need some. The partners are all in the same, undignified position: they're toiling away on tasks that, in years past, they would have delegated to someone much, much lowlier. As they review their own documents, write their own briefs, and do their own research, it becomes painfully evident: they have nothing to give.

Finally, Giovanna and I decide to go to TJ Maxx and look for bargains. Although we feel guilty leaving the office, we realize that a huge case with significant staffing demands is unlikely to come in while we are out buying our Christmas presents. Neither of us has billed 100 hours for the month, and there is no work in sight. We decide that we will call our excursion "personal time," which is non-billable, but at least explains where part of the day went.

When we return from the store, I stop by the assignment partner's office, prepared to beg for something -- anything -- that I can put on my timesheets. He is gone, as is the head of our practice group and, for that matter, everyone else I attempt to stalk. I wonder if they are all at TJ Maxx, buying fuzzy slippers on sale.

The next day I look nervously at my hours, which are hovering near 75 for the month. I decide to resume my offensive on the assignment partner, who, I tell myself, has to return to his desk at some point. I know that he is being pursued by every associate for the same reason, and that he probably spends much of his day delivering anodyne promises about big, document-heavy cases that will come in "soon!" and dodging the anxious whimpering of associates desperate not just for work, but for a whiff of security. On my first trip upstairs, I find his office empty, and picture him crammed into a bathroom stall, shuffling papers and balancing his laptop, careful to make sure that his feet do not dangle into view. You can hide, motherfucker, but eventually you'll get hungry, I think. You can't stay in there forever.

An hour later, my phone rings. It's him -- the assignment partner! He knows that I am desperately in need of work and is calling to tell me that someone needs help on an order to show cause, which will invariably turn into protracted, time-consuming motion practice. I pick up the phone, and he asks me to come to his office. I leap up from my desk and start upstairs, realizing as I do that something doesn't feel right. There were no pleasantries, no "what's your schedule like?," not even an "I heard you were waiting outside the bathroom for me, and, as it happens, your hard work and persistence have paid off!" When I get there, his door is closed. I am too rattled to knock, so I barge in; he is sitting with someone I have never met.

"This is Bob, from Human Resources," the partner explains. "Nice to meet you, Bob," I say, because it seems inappropriate to say "Bob, I would prefer not to meet you, today or any other day." As he points me to a chair, I think of the scene from Lethal Weapon in which the bad guy calls one of his associates in for a meeting, tells him to stand on a strategically placed sheet of plastic (put there by "the painters"), and then executes him. I know, from the look on the partner's face, that the one thing he regrets right now is that he never installed the trap door -- just on the other side of his desk, right under the chair where I now sit -- that he has always dreamed of.

As the realization of what is happening settles on me, I find myself oddly focused on two thoughts: don't cry, and don't throw up. I repeat the words in my head like a mantra: don't cry; don't barf; don't cry; don't barf. I know what the partner is about to say, and am not surprised when the words land around me like sheepish little mines.

"Roxana," he starts out (in a tone that would be equally appropriate if he was announcing that "it looks like we're going to have to amputate"), "as you know, these are incredibly difficult times, with the economic downturn and all." He tells me that "the firm has been struggling," and that it has decided "to let a number of people go." The way he says it makes it sound benign, as though the firm is waving us through at a traffic light, or setting us free in the wild. "Unfortunately," he explains, "you are one of those people."

Suddenly, I wish I could, in fact, barf -- with eruptive precision, like an oddly-endowed superhero striking back at her enemy. The power to summon thunderbolts would be sexier, I think, but I would settle for projectile vomit. Instead, I hear myself asking whether other attorneys are being "let go." Yes, they tell me; in addition to staff, there are a number of attorneys being "released," though they are not at liberty to say which ones. I'm not sure why this detail seems important, but it is oddly comforting.

Having delivered the news, the partner begins to recite a stream of apologies. He is sorry; they are all sorry. This is a purely economic decision, and in no way reflects on my worth as an attorney, or, for that matter, as a person. The firm will write me a recommendation that makes it abundantly clear that I was let go for financial reasons. Do I want help with my resume? How about the name of a recruiter? I stand up. I do not want their suggestions about my resume or their referral for a recruiter; I want to leave the room. If I can't barf on these people, I want to be alone in my office, away from their mendacious pity and superficial offers to help me out of the tar pit they have just pushed me into.

Before I go, however, they must address the matter of severance. I feel myself holding my breath, praying that they will give me at least three months. I have heard that many firms are not being nearly as generous these days, but the associates who were axed in the last round of cuts were given three months, even though they were -- at least ostensibly -- let go for "performance-related" reasons. Three months, I repeat silently. In this market, it's hardly anything... but at least I'd have a chance.

My hope is short-lived. "You'll have two weeks in the office, so that you can get your affairs in order," the partner tells me, "and two weeks out of the office." In total, I am being given one month, which, they explain, starts from today. Not so long ago, I was being given a nice bonus, and with it a reassurance of my place at the firm. Now I have one month to finish what I am working on, clean out my desk, and move on.

I walk back to my office, stunned. I sit down for a moment, but the room feels too small, and I having the unpleasant sensation that I am drowning. I wonder idly whether my seat cushion would make a good flotation device. I get up and go downstairs. Although I quit a while back, I buy a pack of cigarettes and stand outside, smoking, and wondering what to do next.

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legalese_retard
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Re: Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

Postby legalese_retard » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:26 pm

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/02/13/mak ... k-forward/

Making Sense of ‘Black Thursday’ . . . And a Look Forward

And what — perish the thought — will Friday the 13th bring?

It’s gotta be ugly, very ugly, to top Thursday the 12th. Above the Law has pegged the total tally of Big Law lawyers and staff members laid off in the last two days at 828. Click here for coverage from the National Law Journal; here for the Recorder’s take.

For now, in attempt to make sense of it all, a few rhetorical questions from LBHQ:

Is this the end of it? Unfortunately, probably not. Consider this ominous quote, found in the Recorder this morning: “There will be more,” said law-firm consultant Peter Zeughauser. “Materially more. I’m aware of some big ones coming up.”

Why yesterday? First things first. The period between January and April is typically a fallow one for law firms. The year-end collection season has come and gone and firms have to ready themselves for a big tax bill come April 15. So it’s a reasonable time to cut overhead.

But the jury still seems to be out on why there was so much cutting done yesterday. One hypothesis, from Jerry Kowalski, a legal consultant: Jump in when everyone else is doing it. “In past years, law firms lost a lot of their reputation when they announced layoffs. Now, because all of the expectations for 2009 are so bad, it’s no big deal,” he said. “You want to get buried in the tsunami of layoffs.”

Anything else to read on the topic? Fortunately, yes. A piece out today by Aric Press, the editor-in-chief at American Lawyer, does a top-notch job of summarizing where we are and how we got here. One modest proposal to firms from Press: dial back the starting salaries:

Those days are over and yet the 160K bogie remains as inviolate as though it were handed down at Sinai. If the market–and not weird lemming-style management–drove the salaries up, then presumably the market should drive them down. How far? Back to $130,000, where they lodged at the peak of the tech boom? Back to $100,000, which one managing partner refers to as a “life-boat offer”–if you take it, we guarantee not to throw you over the side for several years? . . . Not every firm will choose to cut starting salaries. Some can afford them, for others it will be a matter of pride. And a clever few will break with the past and pay some of their new recruits more than others. But we’ve never done that! Correct, and you’ve never laid off 80 lawyers in a day either.

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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:35 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check. Pretend you already went to the school you got accepted to and are thinking about attending. You graduated medium or around the bottom half of your class and are unemployed at graduation. After exhausting all resources, you have to start looking on your own. Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available. As an unemployed law graduate, I can say that this is one of the last places where there are job postings available right now. Look to see if you are willing to and don't mind working at these places whether as a contract attorney or an Insurance Defense attorney. Typically these firms pay $30K-$50K/year and STILL require decent grades, law school, law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.


You anti-law ppl crack me up. If you were in the bottom half of your class, and are still unemployed, that must mean that:
a) You aimed WAY too high for law school (going to Harvard when you just squeaked in, instead of going to Wisconsin, for argument's sake, with a good grant package or something) and didn't get the grades you should have to be in the top half of the class for this reason alone, or
b) your grades sucked balls because you didn't study or you didn't get it, period, which then proves you shouldn't have been in law school in the first place. How about this...people, STUDY, KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE, DO WELL, AND YOU WILL GET A JOB.

Saying that law jobs "STILL require decent grades, law school, law review..." is hilarious to me. I mean, I'd hope they'd require law school LOL (I'm guessing that part was a typo), but otherwise, no shit sherlock! Of course they require good grades! I wouldn't want to hire the dunces of the class either!

It's logical...go to a law school that fits your abilities and your goals. If you get into a law school where you know that you just barely squeaked in (if I got into Harvard, I'd know this outright, I'm not going to kid myself), keep in mind that there will be people there who will outscore you on tests and will be higher in the class than you. Study, get the best grades you can, and if you do well, YOU WILL FIND A JOB. I don't worry, I'm a hard worker, I know I'll find a job when I graduate. 8)


You're funny. The bottom half of the class isn't the bottom half because of a grade curve. They're the bottom half because they're lazy and undeserving.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: Research job prospects and the profession BEFORE law school

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:46 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
legalese_retard wrote:EXERCISE
http://www.craigslist.org/
Another reality check. Pretend you already went to the school you got accepted to and are thinking about attending. You graduated medium or around the bottom half of your class and are unemployed at graduation. After exhausting all resources, you have to start looking on your own. Visit the craigslist site for your city or the city you want to practice in and see what jobs are available. As an unemployed law graduate, I can say that this is one of the last places where there are job postings available right now. Look to see if you are willing to and don't mind working at these places whether as a contract attorney or an Insurance Defense attorney. Typically these firms pay $30K-$50K/year and STILL require decent grades, law school, law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.


You anti-law ppl crack me up. If you were in the bottom half of your class, and are still unemployed, that must mean that:
a) You aimed WAY too high for law school (going to Harvard when you just squeaked in, instead of going to Wisconsin, for argument's sake, with a good grant package or something) and didn't get the grades you should have to be in the top half of the class for this reason alone, or
b) your grades sucked balls because you didn't study or you didn't get it, period, which then proves you shouldn't have been in law school in the first place. How about this...people, STUDY, KEEP YOUR NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE, DO WELL, AND YOU WILL GET A JOB.

Saying that law jobs "STILL require decent grades, law school, law review..." is hilarious to me. I mean, I'd hope they'd require law school LOL (I'm guessing that part was a typo), but otherwise, no shit sherlock! Of course they require good grades! I wouldn't want to hire the dunces of the class either!

It's logical...go to a law school that fits your abilities and your goals. If you get into a law school where you know that you just barely squeaked in (if I got into Harvard, I'd know this outright, I'm not going to kid myself), keep in mind that there will be people there who will outscore you on tests and will be higher in the class than you. Study, get the best grades you can, and if you do well, YOU WILL FIND A JOB. I don't worry, I'm a hard worker, I know I'll find a job when I graduate. 8)


You're funny. The bottom half of the class isn't the bottom half because of a grade curve. They're the bottom half because they're lazy and undeserving.


I'd say at most of your TTT's, that would be the case...complete laziness. But overall, I think that a lot of law school students are misguided in their beliefs.

Regardless of school/rank, I think there are a host of folks who come in thinking that the degree itself will grant them a job...like all they need to do is graduate. This is what I'm stressing...I'm PERSONALLY going to bust ass at whatever school I attend. I can't guarantee that every law school student does the same.

I'm sure there are folks at HYSCCN who got in on a favor/know someone, and think that things are handed to them. Actually, change that last part, they exist at a lot of schools. My tour guide at DePaul was one of them, actually. I covered my ears she was so obnoxious. Anyway, my point was that these individuals, who don't get it, who think they just need to graduate and **POOF** a job will be waiting for them, are seriously mistaken. And I will make sure I am putting my nose to the grindstone to make sure I shoot past these folks in class rank.

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legalese_retard
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Re: Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

Postby legalese_retard » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:41 pm

Brutal Week May Not Be the End of Law Firm Layoffs
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202428308454

Even in the darkest days of the dot-com bust earlier this decade or in the recession of the early 1990s, there was never a day like Thursday in the world of law firms.

In the space of a few hours, some 300 lawyers -- the equivalent of a midsize firm -- were handed pink slips around the country. And by the close of business on Friday the 13th, more than 1,100 lawyers and staff had either been fired or asked to consider buyouts.

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Re: Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

Postby legalese_retard » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:42 pm

The Fire This Time: Thoughts on The Coming Law Firm Hiring Crisis
http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTA ... 2428236375

Here's what to look for in the labor market reset:

Lower Starting Salaries

Firms are concluding that they are paying too much to their first years. Many, if not all, are still struggling with the last round of across-the-board salary increases given to associates two years ago. Bumping starting salaries up to $160,000 in major money centers arguably made sense when profits were booming and firms feared that they were losing their best talent to the hedge funds of Greenwich. Those days are over and yet the 160K bogie remains as inviolate as though it were handed down at Sinai. If the market--and not weird lemming-style management--drove the salaries up, then presumably the market should drive them down. How far? Back to $130,000, where they lodged at the peak of the tech boom? Back to $100,000, which one managing partner refers to as a "life-boat offer"--if you take it, we guarantee not to throw you over the side for several years? Not every firm will choose to cut starting salaries. Some can afford them, for others it will be a matter of pride. And a clever few will break with the past and pay some of their new recruits more than others. But we’ve never done that! Correct, and you’ve never laid off 80 lawyers in a day either.

Wage Cuts

Several firms have announced wage freezes: no automatic raises for serving another year. This is not particularly novel among clients but it has caused a stir in law firms. It saves some money, but law firm managers admit perhaps not as much as they will need to weather the downtown. When starting salaries bumped up, the rest of the pay scale improved also. If starting salaries get cut, will the rest of the pyramid take a hit too? There are three reasons why it should.

First, an across the board pay cut could save a lot of lawyers jobs. (Before the blogosphere erupts, I understand it's not your fault, I understand that the partners should be out winning business, I understand that you're the victims. So are the Merrill Lynch lawyers cut loose by Bank of America after their principals ran their firm aground. These are bad times and now we have to figure out how to manage them.)

Do the math: in a firm with 500 non-equity partners and associates, a $40,000 pay cut will save almost twice what laying off 50 associates already has. But, you say, some of these lawyers are stars and they must be rewarded! True enough, which brings us to the second reason to go this route: Law firms have too long been wedded to paying their associates in a lock-step fashion. As Citi's DiPietro argued in the August issue of The American Lawyer, it's time to break that routine at most firms, and recognize and reward achievement.

Third, by scaling back the pay packages, law firms will be able to pull back their billing rates and allow second and third years to do whatever work may be available without incurring the wrath of hard-pressed clients.

I take as a given that equity partners will share in this pain. If business wasn't off, profits would still be rising and no one would have read this far. But the owners of the firms are taking a hit, though probably less in percentage terms, than I've laid out for the associates. It turns out that the owners have more say than the rest of us.

Delayed and staggered starts.

Like snow geese that cross the 44th parallel every fall, new associates enter law firms each September as though they were obeying a biological imperative. If there is little or no work waiting for them this fall, that seems a might pointless. Instead, look for firms to behave as their clients do, delaying starts of new employees until there is some demand for their services. And look for them to behave unlike their clients-offering stipends for extended vacations, pro bono service and advanced course work, anything to build loyalty-and keep them out of the office.

Sharply reduced summer classes.

I doubt that any of the major firms will stop recruiting first year associates. However I expect that given the glut of junior associates, that they will reduce the number of new ones they bring on for this summer. It's just your mother's rule applied to hiring: don't put more on your plate than you need. A class of ten, say, handpicked from Stanford, NYU, Harvard, Georgetown, UCLA, Emory, Northwestern, Columbia, Michigan and Fordham, is likely to maintain the partners self-esteem without jeopardizing the firm's economics in September 2011. Also, it will allow the firms to continue managing to the metrics established by the National Association of Law Placement (NALP): evidently it takes a very brave firm to fall below the 90 percent permanent offer mark for summer associates. They believe that if they dare to cross that barrier they never will be able to hire again. Old beliefs, evidently, die hard. And, finally, it will gently move firms toward the revolutionary idea of hiring new associates out of graduating classes when they might actually know how many they need. Might this leave firms short of labor when and if the surging financial markets return? Maybe. But that's what lateral hiring is for.

More layoffs.

Next time it will be partners. I posted a grim assessment in January and it hasn't changed. I suspect little will happen until autumn. While most firms long ago got over the horror of de-equitizing or outplacing equity partners, those moves tended to come in ones and twos. If the economic plight continues, lopping off one or two overpriced income partners just won't move the needle. Instead, we'll watch a three-step process. First, partner meetings will be filled with phrases like "pilot fish" and other not-so-gentle put-downs. Then, business-generating partners will begin demanding action even while they plan their own exits. Finally, if it gets bad enough, those without equity will find themselves without jobs.


I hope I'm wrong, and that over the next few months the stimulus package will kick in and the global economy will recover. It also would be nice to think that even if it doesn't, law firm partners will exhibit saintly patience and keep paying their associates and partners-without-business as though nothing were amiss. But it doesn’t seem likely. More lawyers and staffers will suffer. Someone will create a Law Firm Misery Index. And maybe the crisis will encourage some candid conversation about past practices and the shedding of habits that no longer make much sense.

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Re: Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

Postby legalese_retard » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:47 pm

Ex-Heller and Cooley Godward Associate Braces for Tough Market
http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter ... 2428280264

Efimchik said she was shocked at first, but soon started thinking that it might be nice to get a little time off. Now, the realities of the terrible job market are starting to settle in. There are few job openings and with hundreds of laid off lawyers in the Bay Area, there is no shortage of applicants.

"There really isn't anyone to send your resume to," she said.

Even so, Efimchik said she's got hers "updated and pretty." And she's been "networking as wildly as I can."

Efimchik started her career with Heller after graduating from Boalt Hall. Back then law firms were scrambling for corporate lawyers. After just two months on the job in Menlo Park, Calif., recruiters were calling, trying to get her to join other law firms. "At certain points it was sort of annoying because you can't get through the day," she recalls.

Now, with little corporate work to go around, it's a very different story. The ground has shifted.

"It's sort of the opposite of what we're used to when we were being chased down by recruiters," she said. "You start to think that you're so marketable: You went to the right school; you're the cream of the crop ... ."

No doubt a lot of associates are thinking the same thing right now.

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Re: Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

Postby legalese_retard » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:45 pm

Attorneys at risk
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/ ... leId=31342

"I've kind of realized in the last few months I'm not going to get my dream job right out of school," she says. "It'll take a lot longer than I originally planned to get exactly where I want to be in my career. I like things planned out ahead of time, and this is not how it goes anymore."

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Re: Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

Postby legalese_retard » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:26 pm

Perspectives on Fall 2008 Law Student Recruiting
http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... l_2008.pdf
--LinkRemoved--


"This is sort of what we expected," [Judith Collins, NALP's director of research] said of the survey's gloomy findings. "It's probably going to continue, but we have no way to project how long and how severe the declines will be."

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Re: Websites to Research Before Going to Law School

Postby legalese_retard » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:05 pm

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/03/19/don ... aw-school/

The bottom line: college grads are taking refuge from the economy by going back to school, hoping that the job market will kick back up by the time they graduate.

That’s not a sure thing, though. “Law school is not as safe a bet” as it once was, says William Henderson, a professor at Indiana University’s Maurer School of Law, where applications so far are up 8%.

Some large corporate firms may never rebound to their prior size, due partly to contraction in the investment-banking industry, says Henderson. “There are very few schools that can guarantee students that they’ll find a high-paying corporate job,” he says. Those considering law school who don’t consider law a calling, he adds, need to ask: “Is it really worth going $120,000 or $140,000 more into debt?”




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