George Mason=future top 20?

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PubIntLawyer
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George Mason=future top 20?

Postby PubIntLawyer » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:44 am

I was curious as to what everyone thought in regards to gmu's future. I know they're a fairly recent school but very well known (especially in the dc area). Do you think this trend will continue? ie they'll eventually break the top 20?

I know this is silly, but I'm trying to decide between american and gmu, and have certainly noticed an "upward trend" with gmu.

Thoughts?

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ruleser
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby ruleser » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:48 am

Well, this would just be my guess - why did GMU have such an upclimb? It is possible that it was because it was the Conservative school in DC during 8 of the most conservative years in DC's history. And so its graduates had an inside track to DC jobs/clerkships, etc thanks to Bush and friends. But with the Bush admin leaving and conservative economics (GMU's biggest claim to fame) not such a top favorite at the moment, it is entirely possible a Conservative school like this could dive just as quickly as it rose.

Or not. I'd be interested to hear if others have a different take...
Last edited by ruleser on Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Action Jackson
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby Action Jackson » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 am

ruleser wrote:Well, this would just be my guess - why did GMU have such an upclimb? It is possible that it was because it was the Conservative school in DC during 8 of the most conservative years in DC's history. And so it's graduates had an inside track to DC jobs/clerkships, etc thanks to Bush and friends. But with the Bush admin leaving and conservative economics (GMU's biggest claim to fame) not such a top favorite at the moment, it is entirely possible a Conservative school like this could dive just as quickly as it rose.

Or not. I'd be interested to hear if others have a different take...

I think this is exactly right. Furthermore, if you look at GMU's ranking the last 4 years it's been consistently around 38-ish. There's no reason to believe it will see an 18 rank jump in the next 10 years.

PubIntLawyer
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby PubIntLawyer » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:56 am

Ok...so I hate to press this because I've posted on this in the past...but does this mean American would be a better "long term investment?"

I'm just nervous because many employers I've spoken with don't have a great impression with gmu(compared to wcl), and I can't tell whether this is changing/likely to change. I'm so torn!!

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muddywaters
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby muddywaters » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:56 am

I don't think it will break the top 30. I give it props for the steps it has made, but see its rise ending soon.

For some reason, I cannot fathon GMU being ranked higher than WM (or WL).

however, gmu>american imho.

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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby Action Jackson » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:57 am

PubIntLawyer wrote:Ok...so I hate to press this because I've posted on this in the past...but does this mean American would be a better "long term investment?"

I'm just nervous because many employers I've spoken with don't have a great impression with gmu(compared to wcl), and I can't tell whether this is changing/likely to change. I'm so torn!!

Always go with what the employers you've talked to say, provided they are the employers you want to eventually work with.

PubIntLawyer
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby PubIntLawyer » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:57 am

I should add...this was only within the public interest spectrum

PubIntLawyer
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby PubIntLawyer » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:59 am

so assuming i stay within the dc area (as i plan to), gmu>american in ther forseeable future???

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ruleser
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby ruleser » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:00 am

PubIntLawyer wrote:Ok...so I hate to press this because I've posted on this in the past...but does this mean American would be a better "long term investment?"

I'm just nervous because many employers I've spoken with don't have a great impression with gmu(compared to wcl), and I can't tell whether this is changing/likely to change. I'm so torn!!


I think it's a simpler question than you think - it depends on who you are and what you want to study. The choice is pretty clear - if you are interested mainly in law and economics, go GMU definitely. If you are into international or PI, go American definitely. If you want a conservative slant, GM, liberal, American...

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muddywaters
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby muddywaters » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:02 am

PubIntLawyer wrote:so assuming i stay within the dc area (as i plan to), gmu>american in ther forseeable future???


i would go to the one where you feel more comfortable/like the program better. the difference is (almost) negligible.

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jewtangclan03
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby jewtangclan03 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:10 am

I don't buy this GMU rose bc Bush was in office business at all. Its ranking has much more to do with its location, faculty, and low cost of tuition.

I also think its dumb when people mention GMU in the same breath as places like BYU, Regent, Pepperdine, etc. A libertarian emphasis on economics, or just stressing the link between economics and the law in general, is not the same as social conservatism.

I wouldn't expect GMU to have some sort of crazy fall in the rankings now that the Democrats control the Presidency and Congress, nor would I expect to see it in the top 25 any time soon.

PubIntLawyer
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby PubIntLawyer » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:21 am

ruleser wrote:
PubIntLawyer wrote:Ok...so I hate to press this because I've posted on this in the past...but does this mean American would be a better "long term investment?"

I'm just nervous because many employers I've spoken with don't have a great impression with gmu(compared to wcl), and I can't tell whether this is changing/likely to change. I'm so torn!!


I think it's a simpler question than you think - it depends on who you are and what you want to study. The choice is pretty clear - if you are interested mainly in law and economics, go GMU definitely. If you are into international or PI, go American definitely. If you want a conservative slant, GM, liberal, American...


What if I want to focus on public interest but have a conservative slant (crazy, right?). And I know both are essentially equal, but I'm wondering if one (or none) is more likely to rise above in the future.

I'm really holding out for GW, but with a 167, 3.2, I think these two are about it.

PS-Thanks for the responses--this really is a great resource!

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wiseowl
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby wiseowl » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:25 am

GMU is much cheaper.

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muddywaters
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby muddywaters » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:31 am

id go with GMU.

Did you apply PT to GULC or GW?

You have a shot at GW FT and would essentially be a lock for PT.

PubIntLawyer
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby PubIntLawyer » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:37 am

muddywaters wrote:id go with GMU.

Did you apply PT to GULC or GW?

You have a shot at GW FT and would essentially be a lock for PT.


I only applied FT...

matt.l.b
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby matt.l.b » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:45 am

No way that GMU is going to break the top 20 in the near future. Who would they edge out? If you go by TLS opinion it would be WUSTL, but WUSTL has strong lay appeal a hot campus and a distinctive niche in the midwest. They aren't going to overtake GW because anyone considering GMU or GW that decides on rankings will go with GW. Plus, 4 DC schools in the top 20 seems like to much saturation in a market to be practical.

GMU is in an awesome location and with its econ + law focus offers something unique among the top schools. I disagree with the idea that GMU's success is in any way tied to the Bush administration. What the hell is this idea based on other than an incorrect correlation between economics and the Republican party? I used a lot of material from GMU's Mercatus econ research Center and they have focused on cutting edge public interest concepts and always had a contrarian slant. I am by no means an expert on GMU, but as an applicant it was clear to me what made GMU distinct.

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ruleser
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby ruleser » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:49 am

matt.l.b wrote: What the hell is this idea based on other than an incorrect correlation between economics and the Republican party? .


Um, no, that would be a correct correlation between Conservative economics and the Bush admin...

Thanks for playing...

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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby Action Jackson » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:50 am

jewtangclan03 wrote:I don't buy this GMU rose bc Bush was in office business at all. Its ranking has much more to do with its location, faculty, and low cost of tuition.


We now know for a fact that the Bushies engaged in preferential hiring of conservatives (and lied to Congress about it, too), so a conservative school near DC raising in rankings benefiting from that practice is not an unreasonable supposition.

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ruleser
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby ruleser » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:58 am

I would add to this discussion that I just applied to GM about a week back - they gave me a fee waiver and law and economics is my main focus - although I consider conservative economics voodoo nonsense. I was pretty clear about my slant in my PS, so if I get in, it means they are open to, um, vigorous debate, which I would love to be an outside voice at a time when people might be interested in hearing new things...

Haven't applied to American even though internat/PI is my other top - great programs, but pricey...

matt.l.b
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby matt.l.b » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:03 am

Um, no, that would be a correct correlation between Conservative economics and the Bush admin...

Thanks for playing...


The only obvious correlation that exists would be tax cuts and the Bush administration, but its tough to show causation between those two. But if we tie GMU's success as linked with presidential administrations that favor tax cuts then their future looks pretty bright. Plus, if GMU's success is based on recruitment from conservative politicians, that's a pretty large market of employers. Not to mention that Obama is a sharp guy when it comes to economics. Way sharper then Bush which would mean that GMU's grads are about to enter an even greater boom market.

Anyway, lets see something specific on the link between GMU and Bush. Like relative number of GMU grads working in the DOJ in the past 8 years along with some sort of rankings deflator.

goldengaff
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby goldengaff » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:10 am

ruleser wrote: its graduates had an inside track to DC jobs/clerkships, etc thanks to Bush and friends. But with the Bush admin leaving and conservative economics (GMU's biggest claim to fame) not such a top favorite at the moment, it is entirely possible a Conservative school like this could dive just as quickly as it rose.

Or not. I'd be interested to hear if others have a different take...


Pure rubbish. Many of GMU alum work for the gov. but how do you see Bush's admin having a hand at getting them good positions? It's not like they were working in the White House.

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ruleser
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby ruleser » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:11 am

matt.l.b wrote:
Um, no, that would be a correct correlation between Conservative economics and the Bush admin...

Thanks for playing...


The only obvious correlation that exists would be tax cuts and the Bush administration, but its tough to show causation between those two. But if we tie GMU's success as linked with presidential administrations that favor tax cuts then their future looks pretty bright. .


You're sounding a bit like Rush Limbaugh. Um, the future of Conservative style tax cuts does not look bright. Thanks for playing. Now stop playing the game of forgetting there are different types/schools of economics, tax cuts, etc and that a new school will now rule Washington, although you might lose your reason to argue if you do that...

matt.l.b wrote:Plus, if GMU's success is based on recruitment from conservative politicians, that's a pretty large market of employers. .


Um, I guess you are the only one who didn't notice that market just shrunk by about 1/2, between Sens/Congress Reps thrown out of office and all the Pres Admin officials, treasury, etc. thrown out. AND, um, there's been something called a collapse/downturn which is throwing much of Conservative dogma in the toilet... so, um, yes, still a market, but one massively smaller than even during the 90's, never mind 2000's...

matt.l.b wrote:Not to mention that Obama is a sharp guy when it comes to economics. Way sharper then Bush which would mean that GMU's grads are about to enter an even greater boom market.


Yes, way sharper than Bush on econ, so he won't be recruiting the people Bush did, like the GM grads... Ah....
Last edited by ruleser on Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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DerrickRose
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby DerrickRose » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:15 am

goldengaff wrote:
ruleser wrote: its graduates had an inside track to DC jobs/clerkships, etc thanks to Bush and friends. But with the Bush admin leaving and conservative economics (GMU's biggest claim to fame) not such a top favorite at the moment, it is entirely possible a Conservative school like this could dive just as quickly as it rose.

Or not. I'd be interested to hear if others have a different take...


Pure rubbish. Many of GMU alum work for the gov. but how do you see Bush's admin having a hand at getting them good positions? It's not like they were working in the White House.


The Justice Department hires a lot of lawyers from DC. GMU and American produce a lot of DC lawyers. GMU lawyers tend to be more conservative than American ones. Under the Bush administration, being conservative became an essential quality for getting a job at the Justice Department. Positions at the DoJ are generally quite prestigious, and the law schools of DoJ lawyers will likely do well.

You see where I'm going with this?

PubIntLawyer
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby PubIntLawyer » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:21 am

So...seeing that we've come to the end of the bush admin, would american be a safer bet or do you think gmu will continue to be "bettter?"

Thanks

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DerrickRose
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Re: George Mason=future top 20?

Postby DerrickRose » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:24 am

PubIntLawyer wrote:So...seeing that we've come to the end of the bush admin, would american be a safer bet or do you think gmu will continue to be "bettter?"

Thanks


Put it this way. If you voted for Obama go to American. If you voted for McCain go to GMU.




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