Yale Law School undergraduate representation

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r6_philly
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby r6_philly » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:48 pm

The Real Jack McCoy wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I don't think my undergrad has ever been on that list. Makes me wanna ask my grad school to allow me to complete a second bachelors :lol: that'd bump me to the front of the list :P


I suspect most recent degree is most important anyways (though I realize your joking...)


Well if you are going to get technical... I won't receive that degree until first year of LS so I don't know how much it matters. (half jokingly)

acrossthelake
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:58 pm

The problem with drawing conclusions from this is you don't know if it's due to

1) A bump from the institution itself.
In the case of Yale, there seems to be a bump for Yale undergrads, though it might be the other 2 factors. HLS usually gives a bump for Harvard undergrads. Law schools in general tend to favour their own undergrads. Whether this is the case for why, say, Brown or Columbia "feeds" into YLS or HLS might be these other factors, though a bump is possible.

2) The great opportunities that existed at the undergrad level that allowed students to accumulate good softs more easily.
I know from my friends at Harvard undergrad that they have access to some really cool internships and research opportunities that students just don't have at other schools, even some other top schools. Their resumes are rather impressive, and most of these opportunities were basically handed to them.

3) The selectivity of the institution itself when it was selecting high school kids for admission.
Not everyone participated in the attempt to gain admissions to these institutions for college, many due to very legitimate monetary reasons, but competition for admissions into these undergrads was still fierce. It was usually around 20,000-30,000 students applying for ~1500-2000 spots at each school(except at Cornell). For this year's graduating seniors, the admissions rate at the Ivies and other undergrad colleges(MIT, Stanford, UChicago, etc.) when they applied during high school were <15% overall, and <10% for those who applied regular decision (recruited athletes, folks who donated buildings, etc. are all accepted in the early decision round, and that the ED round fills about half of each class). Undergrad admissions at the Ivies are actually more competitive than all but YHS law schools in terms of admissions rate. The entire league is need-blind in admissions as well, with a promise to give 100% of needed aid (which doesn't really help the middle class, and contains loans as well, but I digress...), so you'll actually find a fair amount of very talented people from the lower income brackets.

This is not to say that *all* Ivy undergrads do well--this is very very very very false. But there will be a chunk who do, and those are the ones you'll see getting into good law schools.

It makes sense that if you take only motivated and accomplished high school students and then put them through a good education with great internship and research opportunities that they would then go on to fare well in law school admissions. With perhaps some sort of boost.

westbayguy
Posts: 153
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby westbayguy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:40 pm

westbayguy wrote:Yale as of 2009-10 (620 Students) Top feeders are pretty constant from year to year

Institutions Represented
One student from each institution unless otherwise indicated
Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg [Germany] (2)
Albion College
American University (5)
American University of Beirut [Lebanon]
Amherst University (4)
Aristoteleio Panepistimio Thessalonikis [Greece]
Arizona State University (5)
Arkansas State University
Athinisin Ethnikon Kai Kapodistriakon Panepistimion [Greece]
Baylor University
Biola University
Birmingham-Southern College
Bob Jones University
Boston College (2)
Bowdoin College
Brandeis University (2)
Brigham Young University (5)
Brown University (21)
Bryn Mawr College (2)
California State University
Calvin College
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Chulalongkorn University [Thailand]
City University of New York [Bernard Baruch College]
City University of New York [City College]
City University of New York [Herbert Lehman College]
Claremont McKenna College
Colgate University (2)
College of the Holy Cross
Colorado College
Columbia University (22)
Columbia University [Barnard College]
Concordia University [Canada]
Cornell University (10)
Creighton University
Dartmouth College (15)
Dickinson College
Duke University (14)
East China University of Political Science and Law [People’s Republic of China]
Emory University (3)
Fordham University (4)
Fudan University [People’s Republic of China]
George Washington University (2)
Georgetown University (7)
Gettysburg College
Gonzaga University
Gordon College
Grinell College
Hampton University
Harvard University (76)
Harvey Mudd College
Hebrew University of Jerusalem [Israel]
Heinrich-Heine-Universität Düsseldorf [Germany]
Hillsdale College
Howard University (2)
Indiana University (2)
Institut d’Etudes Politiques de Paris [France]
Johns Hopkins University (6)
Kalamazoo College
Kyoto University [Japan]
Leopold-Franzens Universität Innsbruck [Austria]
London School of Economics and Political Science [United Kingdom]
Louisiana State University (2)
Loyola College [Maryland]
Loyola Marymount University
Loyola University [Illinois]
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
McGill University [Canada] (2)
Middlebury College (3)
Millsaps College
Minnesota State University
Montclair State College
Morehouse College
Morgan State University
Mount Holyoke College (2)
Nanjing University [People’s Republic of China]
National Law School of India University [India] (2)
National Taiwan University [Taiwan] (2)
National University of Ireland [Ireland]
New York University (7)
Northwestern University (8)
Oberlin College (2)
Ohio State University
Peking University [People’s Republic of China]
Pennsylvania State University
Pepperdine University
Pomona College (3)
Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile [Chile]
Pontificia Universidade Católica do Rio de Janeiro [Brazil]
Princeton University (27)
Rice University (2)
Rutgers, State University of New Jersey (2)
Saint John’s University [New York]
Sarah Lawrence College (2)
Scripps College
Seattle University
Smith College
Sookmyung Women’s University [Republic of Korea]
Spelman College
Stanford University (35)
State University of New York at Buffalo
Swarthmore College (7)
Taylor University
Tel Aviv University [Israel] (2)
Touro College
Trinity Christian College
Trinity University [Texas]
United States Naval Academy
Universidad Católica de Córdoba [Argentina]
Universidad Complutense de Madrid [Spain]
Universidad de los Andes [Colombia]
Universidad Nacional de La Plata [Argentina]
Universidad Panamericana [Mexico]
Universidade de Lisboa [Portugal]
Universidade de São Paulo [Brazil]
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul [Brazil]
Università Cattolica del Sacro Cuore [Italy]
University of Alabama
University of Alberta [Canada]
University of Arkansas
University of Asmara [Eritrea]
University of Calgary [Canada]
University of California at Berkeley (12)
University of California at Irvine
University of California at Los Angeles (9)
University of California at Santa Barbara
University of Cambridge [United Kingdom] (2)
University of Cape Town [South Africa]
University of Chicago (12)
University of Colorado
University of Connecticut
University of Denver
University of Florida (4)
University of Georgia (3)
University of Iowa (2)
University of Kansas (2)
University of Mary Washington (2)
University of Maryland (2)
University of Massachusetts
University of Miami (2)
University of Michigan at Ann Arbor (9)
University of Missouri (2)
University of North Carolina at Asheville
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (5)
University of North Texas
University of Notre Dame [Indiana] (3)
University of Oklahoma
University of Oregon (3)
University of Ottawa [Canada]
University of Oxford [United Kingdom]
University of Pennsylvania (14)
University of Pittsburgh (2)
University of Redlands
University of Rochester
University of Saint Andrews [United Kingdom]
University of Southern California (5)
University of Tennessee
University of Texas at Austin (6)
University of Texas at Dallas
University of the Philippines [Philippines]
University of Tokyo [Japan]
University of Toronto [Canada] (2)
University of Tulsa
University of Virginia (3)
University of Washington (3)
University of Western Australia [Australia]
University of Wisconsin at Eau Claire
University of Wisconsin at Madison (3)
University of Witwatersrand [South Africa]
Vanderbilt University (3)
Vassar College
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University (4)
Washington University [Missouri] (8)
Wellesley College (6)
Wesleyan University (7)
Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster [Germany]
Whitman College (2)
Williams College (4)
Wuhan University [People’s Republic of China]
Yale University (87)
Yeshiva University
Yonshei University [Republic of Korea]
Total institutions, 185



FYI the Class of 2013 added a few schools to the list as "feeder" schools

Cal State Chico
Coe College
Franklin and Marshall
Kenyon College
Macalester College
Southern Methodist
SUNY Stony Brook
Temple
Tufts
Tulane
UC San Diego
UC Santa Cruz
USMA West Point
Washington State University
York University

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:35 pm

What we really need is an over-eager applicant to account for the size of each institution.

acrossthelake
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:06 am

The Real Jack McCoy wrote:What we really need is an over-eager applicant to account for the size of each institution.


I might do this when i have time.....OMG I'm such a gunner.

DeepSeaLaw
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby DeepSeaLaw » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:02 am

RVP11 wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
"Acing" your GPA and LSAT IS enough at all three of HYS 99% of the time. 4.0/180s don't struggle to get into Yale.


Being above median (or even the 75th percentile) on both metrics does not guarantee admission at Yale or Stanford, especially Yale. Look at the LSN graphs.

Pip
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby Pip » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:07 pm

What is missed by all this is the number of applicants from the UGs... I would guess that people going to Harvard are more likely to apply to Harvard than to Yale... and people going to Yale are more likely to apply to Yale than Harvard simply because they feel a greater connection to that school. Not everyone is going to apply to both.

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Unemployed
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby Unemployed » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:22 pm

Pip wrote:What is missed by all this is the number of applicants from the UGs... I would guess that people going to Harvard are more likely to apply to Harvard than to Yale... and people going to Yale are more likely to apply to Yale than Harvard simply because they feel a greater connection to that school. Not everyone is going to apply to both.


You didn't attend Harvard or Yale UG, did you? :lol:

Harvard UG's are used to feeling like they are the BEST, so the allure of YLS is particularly potent. Yale UG's spent 4 years playing second fiddle to Harvard, so they flock to HLS, often forgoing YLS.

Pip
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby Pip » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:46 pm

Unemployed wrote:
Pip wrote:What is missed by all this is the number of applicants from the UGs... I would guess that people going to Harvard are more likely to apply to Harvard than to Yale... and people going to Yale are more likely to apply to Yale than Harvard simply because they feel a greater connection to that school. Not everyone is going to apply to both.


You didn't attend Harvard or Yale UG, did you? :lol:

Harvard UG's are used to feeling like they are the BEST, so the allure of YLS is particularly potent. Yale UG's spent 4 years playing second fiddle to Harvard, so they flock to HLS, often forgoing YLS.


Actually I did both but not as an undergrad... I really doubt those at Harvard that felt they were the best would be drawn to Yale simply because of USNews ranking, I would expect them to believe that all things crimson were best. I also doubt someone that went through Yale would feel they had been second fiddle and needed to atone for their sin.

I suspect the fact that most people tend to live and die within a short radius of there place of birth is the reason... people feel a comfort zone and don't like to leave it, even at the UG level.. if you went there why leave.

Kochel
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby Kochel » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:18 pm

I went to Yale UG and then to HLS back in the 90s. Got dinged by YLS, but had by then already sent my deposit to Harvard. I yield to none in my love for Yale, but I was drawn by the HLS mystique, and didn't really relish the prospect of living as a grad student in New Haven. Still, even back then the YLS cachet was very strong, and few Yalies who got into both law schools chose Harvard. (I don't really know if the opposite holds true, but I can't imagine a Harvard undergrad choosing YLS for any other reason than that YLS was perceived as the better school.)

To the original topic: in my day the UG representation at HLS was also heavily weighted in favor of the Ivies and other top colleges. I was amazed at how many fellow Yalies I met at HLS. My wife, who went to HLS from a less-represented college, still talks about the culture shock of showing up as a 1L and finding out that half her classmates were from the same few colleges.

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swampthang
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby swampthang » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:12 pm

Peter Griffin wrote:I know that this is a topic that's extensively covered on this forum, but for the sake of other n00bs like myself, I'm posting the following: http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/public_affairs/07_08_law_bulletin.pdf.

See Pg 158.

Total enrollment at YLS: 643
1L + 2L + 3L: 590
Misc (LLM, etc.): 53

Undergraduate Representation
Amherst: 9
Brown: 13
Columbia: 23
Cornell: 7
Dartmouth: 16
Duke: 9
Emory: 5
Georgetown: 6
Harvard: 79
MIT: 5
Northwestern: 8
Notre Dame: 7
Princeton: 31
Stanford: 37
Swarthmore: 5
UC Berkeley: 16
UCLA: 8
University of Chicago: 8
UPenn: 9
U Michigan: 8
UT Austin: 8
UVA: 10
Wesleyan: 7
Williams: 12
Yale: 78

There are other "top" undergrads represented, but they only sent one or two students so I didn't list them. But isn't this astounding? Maybe not for you veterans.

424/643 (66%) of YLS students hail from 25 schools.
225/643 (35%) of YLS students hail from 4 schools - Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Princeton.Do you think the demographics are similar at other T14s?

My undergrad (a "top" school in its own right) sent 1 person in the three years covered in the report.


I think this is what I find absolutely fascinating. There are obviously a number of confounding and unknown variables which complicate this analysis, but for 1 out of every 3 students at YLS to come from only 4 schools is really quite staggering. I remember last year Dean Rubenstein wrote that they want to make sure "not everyone is from the same high school (LinkRemoved)" which suggests an interest in encouraging "diversity of thought". Particularly in light of the fact that top UGs are relatively homogenous economically, it just seems like paying lip service to the idea of seeking diversity while reinforcing an elitist positive-feedback mechanism. Or maybe I'm just bitter because my school doesn't top the list.

I guess the question on my mind would be whether such elite UG domination at top law schools is a good thing or bad thing (which of course is very difficult to separate from its personal impact).

westbayguy
Posts: 153
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby westbayguy » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:52 pm

Update http://www.yale.edu/printer/bulletin/pdffiles/law.pdf

SUMMARY OF ENROLLMENT, 2010–2011
177 INSTITUTIONS REPRESENTED/ 607 students (645 1L-3L)

One student from each institution unless otherwise indicated

Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg
[Germany]
Albion College
American University (3)
American University of Beirut [Lebanon]
Amherst University (7)
Arizona State University (4)
Arkansas State University
Athinisin Ethnikon Kai Kapodistriakon
Panepistimion [Greece]
Australian National University
[Australia] (2)
Bar-Ilan University [Israel] (2)
Bayerische Julius-Maximillians-
Universität Würzburg [Germany]
Baylor University
Birmingham Southern College
Bob Jones University
Boston College (3)
Bowdoin College (2)
Brandeis University (2)
Brigham Young University (3)
Brown University (22)
Bryn Mawr College
California State University
Calvin College
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Coe College
Colgate University
Colorado College
Columbia University (17)
Columbia University [Barnard College]
(3)
Connecticut College
Cornell University (11)
Creighton University
Dartmouth College (18)
Dickinson College
Duke University (18)
Emory University (3)
Florida Agricultural and Mechanical
University
Fordham University (2)
Franklin and Marshall College
Freie Universität Berlin [Germany]
Fudan University [People’s Republic of
China]
George Washington University (3)
Georgetown University (5)
Gettysburg College
Grinnell College
Harvard University (80)
Harvey Mudd College
Howard University (2)
Indiana University (3)
Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität
Frankfurt [Germany]
Johns Hopkins University (4)
Kenyon College
London School of Economics and
Political Science [United Kingdom]
(2)
Loyola College [Maryland]
Loyola Marymount University
Loyola University [Illinois]
Macalester College (3)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
(2)
McGill University [Canada] (2)
McMaster University [Canada]
Middlebury College (3)
Millsaps College
Montclair State College
Morehouse College
Morgan State University
Mount Holyoke College (2)
Nalsar University of Law [India]
National Law School of India University
[India] (2)
National Law University [India]
National Taiwan University [Taiwan]
National University of Ireland [Ireland]
National University of Singapore
[Singapore]
New York University (11)
Northwestern University (7)
Oberlin College (2)
Ohio State University (2)
Peking University [People’s Republic of
China]
Pennsylvania State University
Pomona College (6)
Pontificia Universidad Católica del Perú
[Peru]
Princeton University (35)
Qingdao University [People’s Republic
of China]
Reed College
Rice University (2)
Ruprecht-Karls-Universität Heidelberg
[Germany]
Rutgers, State University of New Jersey
(2)
Saint John’s University [New York]
Santa Fe Community College
Sarah Lawrence College
Scripps College
Seattle University
Seoul National University [Republic of
Korea]
Smith College
Southern Methodist University
Spelman College
Stanford University (37)
State University of New York at Stony
Brook
Swarthmore College (8)
Taylor University (2)
Tel Aviv University [Israel]
Temple University
Trinity Christian College
Tufts University
Tulane University (2)
United States Military Academy
United States Naval Academy (2)
Universidad Católica de Córdoba
[Argentina]
Universidad de Buenos Aires [Argentina]
Universidad de Chile [Chile]
Universidad Nacional de Córdoba
[Argentina]
Universidad Panamericana [Mexico]
Universidade de São Paulo [Brazil]
Universidade do Estado do Rio de Janeiro
[Brazil]
Universidade Federal da Bahia [Brazil]
Universidade Federal do Paraná [Brazil]
Università degli Studi de Milano [Italy]
Università degli Studi de Trieste [Italy]
Università degli Studi Roma Tre [Italy]
Universität Bern [Switzerland]
Universität Passau [Germany]
Universität Zürich [Switzerland]
Universiteit van Amsterdam
[Netherlands]
University of Alabama (2)
University of Alberta [Canada] (3)
University of Arkansas
University of California at Berkeley (16)
University of California at Irvine
University of California at Los Angeles
(5)
University of California at San Diego (2)
University of California at Santa Cruz
University of Cambridge [United
Kingdom]
University of Cape Town [South Africa]
University of Chicago (16)
University of Connecticut
University of Florida (5)
University of Georgia (3)
University of Iowa
University of Kansas (2)
University of Mary Washington
University of Maryland (3)
University of Massachusetts (2)
University of Miami (2)
University of Michigan at Ann Arbor (8)
University of Missouri
University of New South Wales
[Australia]
University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill (6)
University of Notre Dame [Indiana]
University of Oregon (3)
University of Oxford [United Kingdom]
(2)
University of Pennsylvania (14)
University of Pittsburgh (2)
University of Redlands
University of Rochester
University of Southern California (6)
University of Tennessee
University of Texas at Austin (6)
University of the Witwatersrand [South
Africa]
University of Toronto [Canada] (2)
University of Tulsa
University of Virginia (4)
University of Washington (3)
University of Wisconsin at Madison (3)
Univerzita Karlova [Czech Republic]
Vanderbilt University (3)
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State
University
Washington and Lee University (3)
Washington State University
Washington University [Missouri] (4)
Wellesley College (4)
Wesleyan University (7)
Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität
Münster [Germany]
Whitman College
Williams College (4)
Wuhan University [People’s Republic of
China]
Yale University (89)
Yeshiva University
York University [Canada]
Total institutions, 177

New domestic institutions this year- giving hope to non-ivies
Coe College
Connecticut College
Florida Agricultural and Mechanical
University
Franklin and Marshall College
Kenyon College
Macalester College (3)
Reed College
Santa Fe Community College
Southern Methodist University
State University of New York at Stony
Brook
Temple University
Tufts University
Tulane University (2)
United States Military Academy
University of California at San Diego (2)
University of California at Santa Cruz
University of Notre Dame [Indiana]

freestallion
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby freestallion » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:12 pm

Oh, yay. My UG has 7 people there. I want to know desperately who those people are. And if Yale will let me in too. (Fat chance of that happening... sigh :evil: )

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amc987
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby amc987 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:28 pm

Unemployed wrote:ou didn't attend Harvard or Yale UG, did you?

Harvard UG's are used to feeling like they are the BEST, so the allure of YLS is particularly potent. Yale UG's spent 4 years playing second fiddle to Harvard, so they flock to HLS, often forgoing YLS.


I'm not sure where you went to school, but in my experience this isn't true. There are a good number of people from Harvard who go to YLS and also a lot of people who go from Yale to HLS, but I think in most cases it had very little to do with HY undergrads feeling inferior or superior relative to one another while they're in college. Most of my friends at HYPS don't spend time sitting around comparing themselves to people at peer schools. I've found that there's more a sense of respect for people attending peer schools and a general understanding that most people at HYPS are very smart and very accomplished regardless of which school they attend. As far as I know, the choice to switch has to do with where people get in (because contrary to popular belief not everyone who gets into Yale gets into Harvard), how much they enjoyed their undergrad experience, and whether they'd like to have a change of scenery for graduate school. I know people from Yale who don't even apply to YLS because they want to get out of New Haven, and people from Harvard who don't apply to HLS because they would rather go somewhere else. I've heard of people making the YLS over HLS decision solely based on the fact that YLS is #1 on USN, but they tend to be the douchiest of the douchey people IMHO.

I have experienced a bit of arrogance/ encountered a good number of people with vastly inflated egos because they attend YLS, though. But I'm sure you could and would find plenty of those people at HLS or whatever other top school.

westbayguy
Posts: 153
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby westbayguy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:34 pm

Giving hope to those not from an Ivy,Stanford, Duke, Cal or Chicago:

Class of 2014 at YLS included students (schools not represented in the 3 prior classes)

Bates
Boston University
Calif Inst of Technology
Cal State Long Beach
Clemson
Eastern
Florida State
Hillsdale
Hunter-CUNY
LSU
Ohio U
Patrick Henry
Purdue
Saint Peters
Samford
Trinity College- CT
US Air Force Academy
UC Santa Barbara
U of Delaware
University of Wales
Vassar
Williams

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MConchis
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Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby MConchis » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:02 pm

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of schools with number of 180/179/178/etc scorers listed as well to see the degree of pedigree bias in these numbers.

westbayguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:41 pm

Re: Yale Law School undergraduate representation

Postby westbayguy » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:58 am

Yale 2012- UG school admissions not in previous 3 classes:

Giving hope to non ivies

Albion College
Case Western
Holy Cross
Davidson
Gonzaga
Hastings
Saint Johns
Seattle University
UC Davis
University of Colorado
University of Illinois
University of richmond
Vanderbilt




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