Page 1 of 2

Law Schools by average graduates salary?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:12 am
by Nazrix
Is there a list/compilation/musing about the average salary of graduates from various schools during the first year after graduation?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:36 am
by Nazrix
Check this out

http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/median ... /MSPrivate


It's pretty accurate based ont he big-law medians of 125,000, but there is variation, some top 10 don't have a 125k median while 10-20 ones do in some cases. If anyone finds something better/additional, let us know here.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:20 am
by carynfennell
I have no information for you but I know that

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:32 am
by Nazrix
Dubious link though

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:40 am
by carynfennell
I suppose that it would help if I finished my post before sending - anyway - I have not seen anything that would really help answer your question. If I run across anything then I will be sure to pass it along.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:33 am
by lawdog
Most of averages are median which are crap. One attorney makes

2 million (got lucky, big case civil)
1 million (dad's law firm, bonus,)
125k (big law, first year assoc, #2 in class)
35k (clerking)
25k (parttime, in school to get mba)

well the median is deceptively 125k. As you can see thats not an accurate average.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:40 am
by Nazrix
???

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:43 am
by DelDad
Market for top NYC firms (and other offices that base their salaries off those levels) is not 160K, I believe.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:47 am
by Nazrix
I read that same article, I think, it was the one that talked about that big law salary going up and one firm said they won't match it, and it's interesting that lawyers are one of few professions that post their earnings so publicly and within days other firms were matching the firm that raised the bar? Was that the one you read kat?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:50 am
by typical1L
Almost all of the V100 have matched the $160k rate.

http://www.lawfirmdiscussion.com/compen ... salary.php

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:52 am
by dssinc
Median is not the midpoint between the highest and lowest number. It is the number at the middle of the range of all values such that half of the values are greater than and half the values are lesser than it. So if there are 101 lawyers, and 50 make $2, and 50 make $92 and 1 makes $7, the median is $7. (the average would be $47)

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:57 am
by DelDad
Egad - completely meaning changing typo by me. Should have been:

"Market for top NYC firms (and other offices that base their salaries off those levels) is noW 160K, I believe."

sorry 'bout that

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:09 am
by AR75
I pay my summer associates $160K for just the summer. I like to give them a taste of the good life. Then, when I hire them full-time, it drops to $158K--just to show them the honeymoon's over and it's time to work.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:09 am
by lawdog
I was using an extreme example, but I wanted the point to be how off the "median" can be. Dssinc your example is way better! What most of us want to know is the "average of salaries for a first year law student from "X" school? Median does not accurately supply that information.

I am not a math major so take it for what its worth. Google median and see what you come up with.

IMO for a first year student median is completely erroneous. We want the mean (average). For a 10 year sampling a median would be more correct.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:14 am
by AR75
Yes. Except admission to the soundproof room costs them an extra $10K per year. If they want the truth without monetary loss, they will get berated publicly. The soundproof room is a bonus--for me.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:23 am
by Nazrix
Yeah, what I meant about the median being "half between the highest and lowest number" was not meant to indicate the middle value between the highest and lowest values, but the "person/thing/observation" that's half above and half below the lowest/highest, but yeah you said it best.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:43 am
by patentlaw
Maybe I'm completely misreading this, but don't most top schools provide their 25% and 75%, and for those schools with the same 25%-75% wouldn't that be what you're looking for? In other words Harvard's 25%-75% used to both be 125K so isn't is just 125? I thought most top 20 schools used to have 125-125 splits (haven't looked in a couple years), so aren't most of those just 125?

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:55 am
by Slash2049
the thing about averages is that half the class could be making 200k, and the other half making 30k, and the aveage is 115k, but there's not a real person making anywhere near that amount.. with a median you know someone is actually making that amount and half the people are making more and half are making less.

edit: i am a math minor, so that's probably why i felt the need to explain.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:40 pm
by lawdog
For first year lawyers? You would think a median is better.... uh huh...
Using your example the median will be either 30k or 200k, but I see your point. I still believe for a first year assoc, an average is much better than a median. Simply because the ceiling on 1st year law is pretty much fixed at around 100k, 115k, 125k, 160k (city sizes). How ever the floor is not fixed. So public defender jobs, govt, corp and otherwise should be factored into the equation. If 10 students graduate from Fictitious Law U

One student @ 160k NY (V100)
Two students @ 125k ATL (V100)
One student @ 115 Charlotte (V100)
Two students @ 100K Columbia SC (v250)
Three public defenders @ 45K public defender
One student @ 60K at a smaller firm (12 lawyers)

The median salary is 100k. Not bad, but the average salary (mean) is 80k. My point is mostly when you here the term median, its higher than that average. Not an accurate protrayal.

So many factors into this that most of the numbers we hear are bunk anyways. Find the city you want to practice law in, find the largest firm there, search there web page (most will tell you about compensation) and go down from that point.

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:58 pm
by lawdog
Actually we can stop trying to prove our points. I found an answer on another thread. :D

http://www.nalpdirectory.com/dledir_search_quick.asp

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:05 pm
by lawdog
[url]edit: i am a math minor, so that's probably why i felt the need to explain.[/url]

I envy you! I transpose numbers when reading and sometimes writing. Growing up my parents, teachers & I always thought its because I was rushing. Well I still do it now. Guess they was wrong. So I cant really do the math thing. I do multiplying in my head by 10x in a matter of secs, but you ask me to do this

456
x115
------

I hope you have time cause I have no idea how to even carry a 1 anymore.

But 456x100=45,600 & 456*10=4560, 5*456 is half that 2280= total 52440. Isnt that weird...

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:20 pm
by CorleoneMB
Don't these rankings normally seperate public/private sector jobs? I know I've seen lists for schools that give the median private sector and public sector jobs...which would eliminate the publict defenders, etc....sorry no links

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:39 pm
by davemollo
The numbers listed by law school websites and ranking guides are patently false.

For example, most law schools say that about 65% of their grads go into the private sector and that the median average salary (as of 2 yrs ago b4 the recent 1st yr raise craise) was $125k. However, this can't be true, bc the top schools that place grads in NLJ 250 firms (the type that actually pay $100k+ starting salaries) were places like Harvard, Columbia etc, and about 65-70% of their grads get those types of jobs.

As a reference BC Law and George Washington, place about 40% and are in the top 20 of schools that place grads at firms that pay the big salaries. At every school outside probably the top 5, a good percentage of grads who go into the private sector are not working for firms that pay 135k or 160k, meaning their median, average, mean, whatever cannot be a simple 1xxk as they list.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 8423325385

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:46 pm
by davemollo
Definetly understand your position Uzmati, but fyi, when you go to career services they have packets of info for diff cities listing the avg starting salary at small, medium, and large firms. They also typically know the percentage of grads who are working at firms of that size, so they do have the data. Law schools just seem to have made it a practice to report as the "median" whatever the top going rate is in the locale where most of their grads work.

Re:

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:53 pm
by Ferrisjso
lawdog wrote:Most of averages are median which are crap. One attorney makes

2 million (got lucky, big case civil)
1 million (dad's law firm, bonus,)
125k (big law, first year assoc, #2 in class)
35k (clerking)
25k (parttime, in school to get mba)

well the median is deceptively 125k. As you can see thats not an accurate average.


While the averages themselves are deceptive wouldnt the numbers still be good for comparing schools since a higher average would indicate more of those positive outliers?