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URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:23 pm
by Tex_Mex13
Over the past week, I've heard conflicting information about the URM boost. My PL adviser basically told me that all minorities can expect a very slight bump in the admissions process. When I asked her exactly what she meant, she told me like 2 to 3 LSAT points. On the other hand, I have heard of URMs receiving up to a 10 point boost. Obviously that is a huge difference, so I wanted to know if anyone knew (actually had some type of empirical evidence) what one could expect.

Also, is there a difference in marking Hispanic and Mexican-American? I identify as both, should I just choose either one?

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:39 pm
by Supernova
Well in Anna Ivey's book, she claims that schools may give as much as a 10 point boost in the LSAT score to URMs, however she doesn't indicated any difference between AA, NA, or Hispanic. I've heard some people say that the boost is different, depending on which URM you are, however this may just be conjecture, as I have yet to see any empirical evidence of this...but of course I'm not sure either way. I've heard of and met a few people (in real life, not on these boards) that got accepted to HLS with LSAT scores in the upper 150s, all of whom were AA. Honestly, I really haven't personally met any other hispanics that are going to law school, so I'm not sure if there is a difference in the boost hispanics get vs AA vs NA.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:43 pm
by Tex_Mex13
...

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:46 pm
by kings84_wr
From what I understand Mexican and Puerto Rican are the two categories for URM status for Hispanics. So if you are Mexican, you should definitely identify as specifically such.

Im not sure of the actual boost, however if you look at LSN you can see some specific applicants of Mexican descent, which could provide a more analytical answer.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:12 pm
by kiwislug
Supernova wrote:Well in Anna Ivey's book, she claims that schools may give as much as a 10 point boost in the LSAT score to URMs, however she doesn't indicated any difference between AA, NA, or Hispanic. I've heard some people say that the boost is different, depending on which URM you are, however this may just be conjecture, as I have yet to see any empirical evidence of this...but of course I'm not sure either way. I've heard of and met a few people (in real life, not on these boards) that got accepted to HLS with LSAT scores in the upper 150s, all of whom were AA. Honestly, I really haven't personally met any other hispanics that are going to law school, so I'm not sure if there is a difference in the boost hispanics get vs AA vs NA.


Wow really? I've never heard of anyone getting into HLS with below a 160

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:18 pm
by shootingfor09
Why doesn't central asian count as URM?

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:43 pm
by Supernova
kiwislug wrote:
Supernova wrote:Well in Anna Ivey's book, she claims that schools may give as much as a 10 point boost in the LSAT score to URMs, however she doesn't indicated any difference between AA, NA, or Hispanic. I've heard some people say that the boost is different, depending on which URM you are, however this may just be conjecture, as I have yet to see any empirical evidence of this...but of course I'm not sure either way. I've heard of and met a few people (in real life, not on these boards) that got accepted to HLS with LSAT scores in the upper 150s, all of whom were AA. Honestly, I really haven't personally met any other hispanics that are going to law school, so I'm not sure if there is a difference in the boost hispanics get vs AA vs NA.


Wow really? I've never heard of anyone getting into HLS with below a 160


Yep...I mean I didn't ask them to submit to a polygraph test or anything, but it's come up in casual conversation before and that's what they told me.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:45 pm
by Supernova
Tex_Mex13 wrote:
Supernova wrote:Well in Anna Ivey's book, she claims that schools may give as much as a 10 point boost in the LSAT score to URMs, however she doesn't indicated any difference between AA, NA, or Hispanic. I've heard some people say that the boost is different, depending on which URM you are, however this may just be conjecture, as I have yet to see any empirical evidence of this...but of course I'm not sure either way. I've heard of and met a few people (in real life, not on these boards) that got accepted to HLS with LSAT scores in the upper 150s, all of whom were AA. Honestly, I really haven't personally met any other hispanics that are going to law school, so I'm not sure if there is a difference in the boost hispanics get vs AA vs NA.


Yea, I figured it was totally different for AA. It was just weird, because a lot of people on TLS talk about Hispanics getting a pretty good boost but when I talked to my PLA, she made it sound like it would barely make a difference.


I'm not even sure if thats true...I spoke with a former adcom at a T10 school who seemed to think marking Hispanic on an app could give you up to a 10 point boost as well, so I'm not really sure..I've heard so many mixed things.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:00 pm
by mcds
African-American males get closer to a 15 point boost, they're the most coveted (and underrepresented) of the lot. Basically the correlation between GPA/LSAT for Black Men I think is at the 3.5/165 median. The further you go in one direction, the further you have to go in the other, with a bit more wiggle room with the LSAT.

So I would venture that a 3.5/165, 4.0/160 and 3.0/170 all have good shots at HLS.

As for the other URMs, I can't say anythign definitively as I don't know enough about that group.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:37 pm
by kings84_wr
shootingfor09 wrote:Why doesn't central asian count as URM?


URM stands for underrepresented minorities, and the way I understand it, Asians are not Underrepresented but rather over represented.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:48 pm
by ndf9894
so the White students and Asian students have to work twice as hard...doesnt sound fair to me

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:50 pm
by kings84_wr
ndf9894 wrote:so the White students and Asian students have to work twice as hard...doesnt sound fair to me


lol well that is an Affirmative Action debate.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:54 pm
by Tex_Mex13
And it starts...

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:05 pm
by kings84_wr
Tex_Mex13 wrote:And it starts...


To your original question to get this back on topic, i would say, after researching a bit on lsn, it prbly is a 5-10 point boost, depending on the school. write a killer DS and you should be golden.

If you want a specific school range or idea, obviously your numbers would be needed.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:13 pm
by Tex_Mex13
kings84_wr wrote:
Tex_Mex13 wrote:And it starts...


To your original question to get this back on topic, i would say, after researching a bit on lsn, it prbly is a 5-10 point boost, depending on the school. write a killer DS and you should be golden.

If you want a specific school range or idea, obviously your numbers would be needed.


If that is the case that is awesome. I planed on basically giving my life story in my PS and talk about growing up in a bad part of Houston and going through a bunch of crazy things before being able to distance myself from it all by going to college. I wonder if I should talk more about my Mexican heritage though...

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:21 pm
by kings84_wr
Tex_Mex13 wrote:
kings84_wr wrote:
Tex_Mex13 wrote:And it starts...


To your original question to get this back on topic, i would say, after researching a bit on lsn, it prbly is a 5-10 point boost, depending on the school. write a killer DS and you should be golden.

If you want a specific school range or idea, obviously your numbers would be needed.


If that is the case that is awesome. I planed on basically giving my life story in my PS and talk about growing up in a bad part of Houston and going through a bunch of crazy things before being able to distance myself from it all by going to college. I wonder if I should talk more about my Mexican heritage though...


you can write a personal statement on what you mentioned above, and a Diversity statement on your heritage. Or you could weave it together, really you have a lot of options.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:43 pm
by FBGM
I think the boost is huge.

A minority at my school (doesn't specify) had a 3.81/156 and was admitted to: Harvard, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, NYU, UCLA, and USC. Rejected at Berkeley, Yale.

Another minority with a 3.72/163 also ended up at HLS.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:50 pm
by kings84_wr
FBGM wrote:I think the boost is huge.

A minority at my school (doesn't specify) had a 3.81/156 and was admitted to: Harvard, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, NYU, UCLA, and USC. Rejected at Berkeley, Yale.

Another minority with a 3.72/163 also ended up at HLS.


It definitely depends on what Minority the applicant is though too. African-americans tend to get a very, very large boost. However Im sure many Mexican-americans get a ] large boost as well, and LSN tends to back that up.

Still a good DS or PS can only reinforce the boost, and really differentiate an applicant from other URM's

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:25 pm
by Supernova
Just to add to this, take a look at an amicus curiae filed by the LSAC in the Supreme Court case, Grutter v Bollinger et al: --LinkRemoved--

Page 8 is particularly interesting. On page 8, it shows the raw numbers of qualified applicants. In 2002 of the 4461 applicants who had a UGPA of 3.5+ and an LSAT score of 165+ only 29 were AA and 114 were hispanic.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:09 pm
by lollypotter
Supernova wrote:Just to add to this, take a look at an amicus curiae filed by the LSAC in the Supreme Court case, Grutter v Bollinger et al: --LinkRemoved--

Page 8 is particularly interesting. On page 8, it shows the raw numbers of qualified applicants. In 2002 of the 4461 applicants who had a UGPA of 3.5+ and an LSAT score up 165+ only 29 were AA and 114 were hispanic.


Just to add to this

In 2004, 10,370 blacks took the LSAT examination. Only 29 blacks, or 0.3 percent of all LSAT test takers, scored 170 or above. In contrast, more than 1,900 white test takers scored 170 or above on the LSAT. They made up 3.1 percent of all white test takers.

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_graduate_admissions_test.html

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:35 pm
by tlsusername
has anyone heard of any gpa boost rather than LSAT for URM?

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:22 pm
by mcds
Its mainly a LSAT boost. However, Ivy URMs get a higher GPA boost than other Ivy students.

A 3.3/165 URM from Princeton is probably good enough to get into Harvard, while otherwise a 3.5/165 would have a good shot.

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:53 pm
by FuturehoyaLawya
i should of went to an Ivy :cry:

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:32 am
by FBGM
mcds wrote:Its mainly a LSAT boost. However, Ivy URMs get a higher GPA boost than other Ivy students.

A 3.3/165 URM from Princeton is probably good enough to get into Harvard, while otherwise a 3.5/165 would have a good shot.


What about not Ivy, but still top school (MIT, Duke, Stanford, Chicago)?

Re: URM Boost

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:23 am
by ramblinwreck
What exactly does everyone think are the chances for a 3.3/165-170 URM (African American) male for Emory, Duke, Vanderbilt, and the University of Georgia? I attend a top public school in the South.