URM Boost

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Tex_Mex13
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:40 am

URM Boost

Postby Tex_Mex13 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:23 pm

Over the past week, I've heard conflicting information about the URM boost. My PL adviser basically told me that all minorities can expect a very slight bump in the admissions process. When I asked her exactly what she meant, she told me like 2 to 3 LSAT points. On the other hand, I have heard of URMs receiving up to a 10 point boost. Obviously that is a huge difference, so I wanted to know if anyone knew (actually had some type of empirical evidence) what one could expect.

Also, is there a difference in marking Hispanic and Mexican-American? I identify as both, should I just choose either one?

User avatar
Supernova
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:14 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby Supernova » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:39 pm

Well in Anna Ivey's book, she claims that schools may give as much as a 10 point boost in the LSAT score to URMs, however she doesn't indicated any difference between AA, NA, or Hispanic. I've heard some people say that the boost is different, depending on which URM you are, however this may just be conjecture, as I have yet to see any empirical evidence of this...but of course I'm not sure either way. I've heard of and met a few people (in real life, not on these boards) that got accepted to HLS with LSAT scores in the upper 150s, all of whom were AA. Honestly, I really haven't personally met any other hispanics that are going to law school, so I'm not sure if there is a difference in the boost hispanics get vs AA vs NA.

Tex_Mex13
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:40 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby Tex_Mex13 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:43 pm

...
Last edited by Tex_Mex13 on Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
kings84_wr
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:18 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:46 pm

From what I understand Mexican and Puerto Rican are the two categories for URM status for Hispanics. So if you are Mexican, you should definitely identify as specifically such.

Im not sure of the actual boost, however if you look at LSN you can see some specific applicants of Mexican descent, which could provide a more analytical answer.

kiwislug
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby kiwislug » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:12 pm

Supernova wrote:Well in Anna Ivey's book, she claims that schools may give as much as a 10 point boost in the LSAT score to URMs, however she doesn't indicated any difference between AA, NA, or Hispanic. I've heard some people say that the boost is different, depending on which URM you are, however this may just be conjecture, as I have yet to see any empirical evidence of this...but of course I'm not sure either way. I've heard of and met a few people (in real life, not on these boards) that got accepted to HLS with LSAT scores in the upper 150s, all of whom were AA. Honestly, I really haven't personally met any other hispanics that are going to law school, so I'm not sure if there is a difference in the boost hispanics get vs AA vs NA.


Wow really? I've never heard of anyone getting into HLS with below a 160

shootingfor09
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:38 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby shootingfor09 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:18 pm

Why doesn't central asian count as URM?

User avatar
Supernova
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:14 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby Supernova » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:43 pm

kiwislug wrote:
Supernova wrote:Well in Anna Ivey's book, she claims that schools may give as much as a 10 point boost in the LSAT score to URMs, however she doesn't indicated any difference between AA, NA, or Hispanic. I've heard some people say that the boost is different, depending on which URM you are, however this may just be conjecture, as I have yet to see any empirical evidence of this...but of course I'm not sure either way. I've heard of and met a few people (in real life, not on these boards) that got accepted to HLS with LSAT scores in the upper 150s, all of whom were AA. Honestly, I really haven't personally met any other hispanics that are going to law school, so I'm not sure if there is a difference in the boost hispanics get vs AA vs NA.


Wow really? I've never heard of anyone getting into HLS with below a 160


Yep...I mean I didn't ask them to submit to a polygraph test or anything, but it's come up in casual conversation before and that's what they told me.

User avatar
Supernova
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:14 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby Supernova » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:45 pm

Tex_Mex13 wrote:
Supernova wrote:Well in Anna Ivey's book, she claims that schools may give as much as a 10 point boost in the LSAT score to URMs, however she doesn't indicated any difference between AA, NA, or Hispanic. I've heard some people say that the boost is different, depending on which URM you are, however this may just be conjecture, as I have yet to see any empirical evidence of this...but of course I'm not sure either way. I've heard of and met a few people (in real life, not on these boards) that got accepted to HLS with LSAT scores in the upper 150s, all of whom were AA. Honestly, I really haven't personally met any other hispanics that are going to law school, so I'm not sure if there is a difference in the boost hispanics get vs AA vs NA.


Yea, I figured it was totally different for AA. It was just weird, because a lot of people on TLS talk about Hispanics getting a pretty good boost but when I talked to my PLA, she made it sound like it would barely make a difference.


I'm not even sure if thats true...I spoke with a former adcom at a T10 school who seemed to think marking Hispanic on an app could give you up to a 10 point boost as well, so I'm not really sure..I've heard so many mixed things.

mcds
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:38 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby mcds » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:00 pm

African-American males get closer to a 15 point boost, they're the most coveted (and underrepresented) of the lot. Basically the correlation between GPA/LSAT for Black Men I think is at the 3.5/165 median. The further you go in one direction, the further you have to go in the other, with a bit more wiggle room with the LSAT.

So I would venture that a 3.5/165, 4.0/160 and 3.0/170 all have good shots at HLS.

As for the other URMs, I can't say anythign definitively as I don't know enough about that group.

User avatar
kings84_wr
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:18 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:37 pm

shootingfor09 wrote:Why doesn't central asian count as URM?


URM stands for underrepresented minorities, and the way I understand it, Asians are not Underrepresented but rather over represented.

ndf9894
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby ndf9894 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:48 pm

so the White students and Asian students have to work twice as hard...doesnt sound fair to me

User avatar
kings84_wr
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:18 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:50 pm

ndf9894 wrote:so the White students and Asian students have to work twice as hard...doesnt sound fair to me


lol well that is an Affirmative Action debate.

Tex_Mex13
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:40 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby Tex_Mex13 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:54 pm

And it starts...

User avatar
kings84_wr
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:18 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:05 pm

Tex_Mex13 wrote:And it starts...


To your original question to get this back on topic, i would say, after researching a bit on lsn, it prbly is a 5-10 point boost, depending on the school. write a killer DS and you should be golden.

If you want a specific school range or idea, obviously your numbers would be needed.

Tex_Mex13
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:40 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby Tex_Mex13 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:13 pm

kings84_wr wrote:
Tex_Mex13 wrote:And it starts...


To your original question to get this back on topic, i would say, after researching a bit on lsn, it prbly is a 5-10 point boost, depending on the school. write a killer DS and you should be golden.

If you want a specific school range or idea, obviously your numbers would be needed.


If that is the case that is awesome. I planed on basically giving my life story in my PS and talk about growing up in a bad part of Houston and going through a bunch of crazy things before being able to distance myself from it all by going to college. I wonder if I should talk more about my Mexican heritage though...

User avatar
kings84_wr
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:18 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:21 pm

Tex_Mex13 wrote:
kings84_wr wrote:
Tex_Mex13 wrote:And it starts...


To your original question to get this back on topic, i would say, after researching a bit on lsn, it prbly is a 5-10 point boost, depending on the school. write a killer DS and you should be golden.

If you want a specific school range or idea, obviously your numbers would be needed.


If that is the case that is awesome. I planed on basically giving my life story in my PS and talk about growing up in a bad part of Houston and going through a bunch of crazy things before being able to distance myself from it all by going to college. I wonder if I should talk more about my Mexican heritage though...


you can write a personal statement on what you mentioned above, and a Diversity statement on your heritage. Or you could weave it together, really you have a lot of options.

User avatar
FBGM
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:16 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby FBGM » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:43 pm

I think the boost is huge.

A minority at my school (doesn't specify) had a 3.81/156 and was admitted to: Harvard, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, NYU, UCLA, and USC. Rejected at Berkeley, Yale.

Another minority with a 3.72/163 also ended up at HLS.

User avatar
kings84_wr
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:18 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby kings84_wr » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:50 pm

FBGM wrote:I think the boost is huge.

A minority at my school (doesn't specify) had a 3.81/156 and was admitted to: Harvard, Columbia, Duke, Georgetown, NYU, UCLA, and USC. Rejected at Berkeley, Yale.

Another minority with a 3.72/163 also ended up at HLS.


It definitely depends on what Minority the applicant is though too. African-americans tend to get a very, very large boost. However Im sure many Mexican-americans get a ] large boost as well, and LSN tends to back that up.

Still a good DS or PS can only reinforce the boost, and really differentiate an applicant from other URM's

User avatar
Supernova
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:14 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby Supernova » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:25 pm

Just to add to this, take a look at an amicus curiae filed by the LSAC in the Supreme Court case, Grutter v Bollinger et al: --LinkRemoved--

Page 8 is particularly interesting. On page 8, it shows the raw numbers of qualified applicants. In 2002 of the 4461 applicants who had a UGPA of 3.5+ and an LSAT score of 165+ only 29 were AA and 114 were hispanic.
Last edited by Supernova on Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lollypotter
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:24 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby lollypotter » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:09 pm

Supernova wrote:Just to add to this, take a look at an amicus curiae filed by the LSAC in the Supreme Court case, Grutter v Bollinger et al: --LinkRemoved--

Page 8 is particularly interesting. On page 8, it shows the raw numbers of qualified applicants. In 2002 of the 4461 applicants who had a UGPA of 3.5+ and an LSAT score up 165+ only 29 were AA and 114 were hispanic.


Just to add to this

In 2004, 10,370 blacks took the LSAT examination. Only 29 blacks, or 0.3 percent of all LSAT test takers, scored 170 or above. In contrast, more than 1,900 white test takers scored 170 or above on the LSAT. They made up 3.1 percent of all white test takers.

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_graduate_admissions_test.html

tlsusername
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:51 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby tlsusername » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:35 pm

has anyone heard of any gpa boost rather than LSAT for URM?

mcds
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:38 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby mcds » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:22 pm

Its mainly a LSAT boost. However, Ivy URMs get a higher GPA boost than other Ivy students.

A 3.3/165 URM from Princeton is probably good enough to get into Harvard, while otherwise a 3.5/165 would have a good shot.

FuturehoyaLawya
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:10 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby FuturehoyaLawya » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:53 pm

i should of went to an Ivy :cry:

User avatar
FBGM
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:16 am

Re: URM Boost

Postby FBGM » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:32 am

mcds wrote:Its mainly a LSAT boost. However, Ivy URMs get a higher GPA boost than other Ivy students.

A 3.3/165 URM from Princeton is probably good enough to get into Harvard, while otherwise a 3.5/165 would have a good shot.


What about not Ivy, but still top school (MIT, Duke, Stanford, Chicago)?

User avatar
ramblinwreck
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:11 pm

Re: URM Boost

Postby ramblinwreck » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:23 am

What exactly does everyone think are the chances for a 3.3/165-170 URM (African American) male for Emory, Duke, Vanderbilt, and the University of Georgia? I attend a top public school in the South.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dan9257 and 2 guests