seriously, what's a bad GPA??

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Mosel
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Postby Mosel » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:08 pm

Opera, I also agree with your other point.

My science classes were my best marks.

And music majors are highly underestimated. Counterpoint and Jazz theory could rival rocket science in terms of analytical reasoning.

No respect; no respect at all! :D

lollypotter
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Postby lollypotter » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:19 pm

And music majors are highly underestimated.

I'm surprised - people were usually really impressed with music majors at my college. Most of them were maths gods as well.

littleone
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Postby littleone » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:26 pm

I was a biology major, so I'm admittedly biased, but please don't disparage science majors based on a few introductory science classes that were designed to help students fill distribution requirements and are not reflective of the major curriculum. I was far from a 4.0, but those that I knew in my major that did have such grades were brilliant and had an amazing work ethic. I didn't take many humanities courses, so I don't feel qualified to comment on how difficult those classes are, but science majors definitely do not have it easy.

You're right, though, that a lot of science majors don't write that well :)

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OperaAttorney
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Postby OperaAttorney » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:27 pm

I think it's because some music programs are more performance-based. While performance is required at my school, the undergraduate music degree is more academic, focusing on scholarship and theory (and composition, for the composers). My professors are some of the best writers I know; they assign grades based on content AND style AND grammar. "It's for the sake of high art," they say. :0)LOL

patentlaw
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Postby patentlaw » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:27 pm

I'm a poli-sci major, and I realize there are programs out there that have grade inflation. But can this really mean that a GPA in a such a major can never be indicative of excellence?


I have to admit that I have a bias when I look at liberal arts GPAs. In my undergrad I think the average liberal arts student had somewhere around a 3.6 and there was no curve, my engineering degree courses were curved to a 2.7. That's not to say that the engineer/hard science majors would do well in those liberal arts courses, but it does say that the average student in those majors have wildly different GPAs.

edited for clarity
Last edited by patentlaw on Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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brokendowncar
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Postby brokendowncar » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:28 pm

And the GPA thing?? You're right about that, too. And, on a personal note, I find a 4.0 in English more impressive than a 4.0 in Biology. I took over a year's worth of Biology as a pre-med student, and those were some of the easiest A's I ever got! LOL Smile Plus, most of the science majors I know don't write well.

Comparing first year bio courses to upper level courses in any major isn't exactly a fair comparison. If you had aced organic chemistry or an upper level materials engineering course, then you would have a decent basis for comparison.

I realize your obvious response is going to be that I have not taken upper level music courses, and of course you are correct. However, I have taken upper level English classes and laughed my way through them. I have also lived with accounting, psych, phys ed, etc majors and watched as they did almost nothing for their classes and walked away with a 3.5. These kids aren't that smart, its just generally easier.

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OperaAttorney
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Postby OperaAttorney » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:31 pm

Comparing first year bio courses to upper level courses in any major isn't exactly a fair comparison. If you had aced organic chemistry or an upper level materials engineering course, then you would have a decent basis for comparison.


Did you read my remark about GENETICS, an upper-division bio course? I stated that it would take God for me to ace that sucker. And, please don't remind me of O-Chem! I felt sorry for all my pre-med friends who barely passed it. Most of them are in med school now, and those B's in O-Chem no longer matter.

lollypotter
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Postby lollypotter » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:39 pm

The depressing thing is that it is exactly the opposite for liberal arts and science grades in my uni and my liberal arts grades will be discounted all the same...

In my undergrad I think the average liberal arts student had somewhere around a 3.6 and there was no curve, my engineering degree courses were curved to a 2.7


I'm sorry, but that's just unfair.

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Mosel
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Postby Mosel » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:07 pm

hm...I don't think we were trying to imply that science is an easy major. Furthermore, I feel like we're all trying to force this conversation into a situation where one side must be triumphant. If anything, I'm calling for equality. I don't think I need testament from anyone that upper-lever physics/sciences are hard as hell. I know they would be.

At the same time, the 400 and 500 level classes in my major were definitely harder than anything I've ever attempted, and I switched between a few majors, (I was a sound engineering major for a while; naturally, I didn't go all the way to the 500's, so I'm not drawing any conclusions from this, I've no basis for comparison).

Also, I think Opera and I saying that our science courses were our easiest wasn't intended as any kind of argument. I think we were just shooting the shit that for us--personally--our brains are more suited to those skills than other skills.

Music majors are definitely underestimated.


My ultimate point was simply that I find it unfortunate that because the sciences are often curved to lower grades, and because it is impossible for the liberal arts to escape having some degree of subjectivity, the liberal arts GPA is automatically seen as weaker. I think there is some ground for this view, but it is definitely not without bound.

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brokendowncar
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Postby brokendowncar » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:13 pm

Did you read my remark about GENETICS, an upper-division bio course? I stated that it would take God for me to ace that sucker. And, please don't remind me of O-Chem! I felt sorry for all my pre-med friends who barely passed it. Most of them are in med school now, and those B's in O-Chem no longer matter.

With this being true, I don't understand how you can still have more respect for a 4.0 in English than a 4.0 in the Sciences. I have never heard anyone talk about a particular English class that everyone struggled with.

Also, I understand you're being very friendly in the discussion, and I am probably coming across a little harsh. I apologize for that. I just happen to have a biochemistry test this week that is making me want to quit school. Meanwhile, my roommate had a "huge accounting test" that he had to spend three hours studying for and make note cards.
Last edited by brokendowncar on Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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M20009
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Postby M20009 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:15 pm

I have never heard anyone talk about a particular English class that everyone struggled with.


Well, I have never heard anyone talk about a particular science class that everyone struggled with.

English gets capitalized but science doesn't. That should tell you enough.

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brokendowncar
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Postby brokendowncar » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:20 pm

Are you serious? You mean you've never heard of the horrors of p chem and organic? How about calculus based physics and statics for engineers? Sure, some people get A's in these classes with relatively little work, but they are few are far between.

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M20009
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Postby M20009 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:25 pm

Yes I'm serious. But I've never hung around, talked with, or lived with anyone who majored in a hard science. That said, I stand by my statement.

M2008
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Postby M2008 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:45 pm

I've never hung around, talked with, or lived with anyone who majored in a hard science. That said, I stand by my statement.


Um, wow. OK, I guess.

Just to throw my own experience out there, most of the introductory physics classes at my university were offered at 3 difficulty levels - the first was open to everyone but was taken pretty much exclusively by physics majors and engineers.

The easier level would fulfill general science requirements for liberal arts majors, but not would not fulfill the physics requirements for physics majors or most engineers.

The easiest level was offered exclusively for architects, as apparently most of them would not be able to pass a class with the more difficult material. (Luckily it's the civil engineers who make sure the building doesn't collapse.)

So, at least in this case, an engineer's A > English major's A > Architect's A.

Locke181
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Postby Locke181 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:29 pm

a philosophy major is the hardest to get 3.5 or higher. the classes are subjective and getting a B is easy. however getting an A in epistemeology or symbolic logic II harder than accounting or organizational behavior

p.s try getting a communciations major in a liberally slanted school when you are a liberatrian and the teacher gives u points off b/c ur not a radical far left lesbian activist.

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kn6542
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Postby kn6542 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:38 pm

the classes are subjective and getting a B is easy. however getting an A in epistemeology or symbolic logic II harder than accounting or organizational behavior


Philosophy classes should not be "subjective", whether it is a survey/history course, or an analytical course.
I think the second statement depends on the prof in the respective courses and the talents of the student.

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Mosel
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Postby Mosel » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:45 pm

I agree ^^.

The content might be subjective in nature, but performance is objective.

In my higher classes we would cover very 'cushy' material, and many students thought that implied the course was subjective and that grading would follow suit. However, your performance is evaluated based on your ability to take subjective material and understand it, manipulate, and extrapolate it in relation to the fundamentals of theory. So it's actually very objective and right-or-wrong.

or as I like to say, rightorwrong.

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OperaAttorney
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Postby OperaAttorney » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:59 pm

Yep.

But a lot of people seem to hate epistemology. (I haven't taken it yet :) LOL Is my GPA worth the risk, guys???). Formal logic worked out just fine though.
Last edited by OperaAttorney on Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaAttorney
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Postby OperaAttorney » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:03 pm

To the philosophy majors:

What phil courses are you taking this semester/quarter? I'm curious.

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NiftyDolphin
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Postby NiftyDolphin » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:54 am

My first day of class the dean addressed us and explained that, though he was sorry, no one would be receiving a 4.0 in a class. To my knowledge, he was good on his word. Of the 200 people in my class--though I don't know every one of them--I know not a single one who had anything above a 3.7, and many of these people were among the top of the class.


I never understood how someone could see not giving out 4.0 as a good idea. If its grade inflation your guarding against- stop inflating grades!

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kn6542
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Postby kn6542 » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:58 am

Is my GPA worth the risk, guys???)


Uh..don't you need it for your major?

Hitachi
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Postby Hitachi » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:48 am

Chemical engineering is the easiest major: https://webfiles.berkeley.edu/~zhangyuxi/transcript.htm

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OperaAttorney
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Postby OperaAttorney » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:40 am

Uh..don't you need it for your major?


I just checked. I don't. YAY! I have my mind set on other electives, such as Phil of Language, Phil of Law, Phil of Psychology, Bioethics, Phil of Agency, Phil of Religion, and Justice.
Last edited by OperaAttorney on Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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gravity
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Postby gravity » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:20 am

wow nice transcript

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thisabyssisbliss
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Postby thisabyssisbliss » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:13 am

philosophy of mind is pretty interesting.




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