Advice for doing well in law school

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sluggo
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby sluggo » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:24 pm

YoungFogey wrote:
sluggo wrote:I think it's really interesting that more people haven't responded with the OP's specific interests in mind. Since he is highly interested in IP law, it seems like Stanford would be an automatic no-brainer were he accepted. The same goes for Harvard, because it's Harvard. In terms of Yale, you'd obviously have to consider going to the best law school in the nation, but I have a feeling you'd be doing it almost entirely for the sake of prestige. I'd only go there if you were certain that the two years of New Haven were worth whatever edge the degree gave you for what you're interested in.

Amazing advice, btw. Thanks for being generous enough with your time to share it with all of us.


If you were choosing it over H and S, I would agree. However, if the choice was Yale and UCLA, with H & S out of the picture (which can happen), I'd say it is still worth it.


Fogey,

I agree.

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ari20dal7
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby ari20dal7 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:03 pm

New Orleans didn't face LA in the playoffs. Tyson Chandler is a man, no doubt, and Pau Gasol is not, but their biggest problem against San Antonio, which was absolutely slaughtered by LA, was not defense or rebounding. Their problem was offensive production-it was Chris Paul or bust. I don't think Tyson Chandler, whatever he does on the boards or to Gasol defensively (and if Bynum is back, he won't get to hammer Gasol the way the Celtics did), is the solution to that problem. It may be Julian Wright, as you suggest, or a combination of Wright, Chandler and West, but it seems to me that, this year, West will have to be the answer for them.


Exactly. That's the problem that has to be solved for them to compete with any elite team, LA included. I think a healthy, 14-12 kind of Bynum would almost make it impossible for New Orleans to compete, even with another big scorer. So I'd say both of those things need to go for NO and against LA to give New Orleans much of a shot. Although we shouldn't forget that the Bynum-less Lakers did beat Utah, and nobody beats you down like Utah. So they can at least compete with physical teams either way.

The_Wall
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby The_Wall » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:02 pm

They're too dependent on jump shooting. Now, if New Orleans had made a move for Elton Brand... Or if they could swing Amare Stoudemire or even Al Jefferson in the next couple years, they'd be right there.

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ari20dal7
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby ari20dal7 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:18 pm

Yeah, Stoudamire would be the real coup, because he could add something of a post presence and a penetrating guy (as far as a guy like that can be). Doubt they'd be able to swing it, but that lineup would be devastating.

The_Wall
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby The_Wall » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:23 pm

Jefferson is more realistic, but Stoudemire's going to be looking for a place to live before long. I would've given up Peja and just about anybody else outside of Paul and Chandler for Elton Brand. They need another offensive post presence or a penetrating swingman.

To the original poster's question, yes, transfer. But for God's sake, when you get to Yale, Harvard or Stanford, take it easy.

BruinBoy86
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby BruinBoy86 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:24 pm

Uhhhh.....Why all the basketball talk? You guys are cluttering an awesome thread...and not even mentioning my NETS!

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ari20dal7
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby ari20dal7 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:31 pm

Pray for Bron-Bron (clap clap clapclapclap). And if you can't see why the Hornets' offensive struggles lead to a clear decision for the OP, well, you don't belong in law school.

I agree - I'd have certainly moved Peja in an effort to come up with Brand, and Peja still has some value. And - I know it's heresy - but David West's value has never been higher, and it seems to me they could have really loaded up on draft picks and other assets and made a run at Brand or somebody like him. You'd need to find somebody else with the cap flexibility to do that, but it would've been worth exploring.

The_Wall
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby The_Wall » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:39 pm

Exactly. And all my bitching about the Suns was an allegory I'm sure the top of the class at UCLA Law heard loud and clear.

I would've given up West for Brand without hesitation. And I'd gladly send Peja or West and whatever else to Phoenix for Stoudemire if he puts a gun to Kerr's head. Not both, though, unless he starts playing some fucking defense.

As for the Brooklyn Nets, I like their rebuilding plan, if they have the discipline to wait out Lebron James and not to bet the farm on Dwayne Wade instead.

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ari20dal7
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby ari20dal7 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:47 pm

It would've required a bit of inside dirt, but here's a thought: once Elton made up his mind to leave, who wouldn't have done a sign and trade for David West? Shoot - the Clippers are now screwed. West is a good player and, coupled with Baron, gives them at least a shot to make the playoffs and maybe, maybe shock somebody in the first round. New Orleans could've probably gotten the Clips to do that straight up rather than just let Elton walk. Brand for West straight up allows them to play a Paul-Peterson-Peja-Brand-Chandler front five, with Wright and Posey seeing significant minutes. They'd be able to score enough, wouldn't be bad on D, and could bring Posey in for Peja if they really wanted to clamp down.

All dreams now, of course.

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RexAllDay
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby RexAllDay » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:45 am

Thank you for ruining what I thought was a great thread..... Seriously, I love basketball too but you guys could've taken that somewhere else.

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RATRATRAT
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby RATRATRAT » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:23 am

RexAllDay wrote:Thank you for ruining what I thought was a great thread..... Seriously, I love basketball too but you guys could've taken that somewhere else.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

xeoh85
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby xeoh85 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:45 am

Hey guys.

Glad to see everyone enjoying themselves. Sports talk is good for the summer. Take this time to get all the relaxation in that you need.

Don't sweat extraneous posts on this thread. When the summer's over, I'll consolidate all of my posts into one and re-post it for whoever wants the info.

I'm busy working on a law review cite checking assignment at the moment, but when I get a chance I'll post a piece on the details of actually writing exams.

-X

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ari20dal7
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby ari20dal7 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:15 am

Thanks, X - I know I've appreciated all of the advice here. I'm quite sure I'm not the only one.

HelloJello
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby HelloJello » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:10 pm

X,

Thanks for the knowledge and experience you're posting here. Without it, I would certainly be lost.

However, I do have a few questions about the exam checklist you mentioned on page 3. I imagine you create the checklist after going through your outlines and practice exams to note certain questions/issues that must be addressed for each particular course. I can't tell if I'm way off, or on the right track. Please let me know either way.

Like others, I'm looking forward to your advice on exam writing.

Thanks again!

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Curious George
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby Curious George » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:57 pm

The first half of this thread is amazing.

I'll be reading and rereading this a number of times.

Thank you.

hypocampus
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby hypocampus » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:51 pm

If I may be so presumptuous, I'd like to offer an addendum to X's already EXCELLENT advice. And before I start this, let me say that X's advice is invaluable and will be useful to myself, let alone 99% of the people just starting law school. That said, I want to just present a couple alternatives to X's largesse of information.

I just finished my 1L year at Georgetown at the top of my section of 125 bright students. I don't know if my achievement quite parallels X's, since the other 1L sections (there are 3 more) may have produced more formidable candidates. Still, I did well enough and have many opportunities open to me.

I think that, for me, a style altogether different from X's is what worked best. The whole bold headings with succinctly-phrased paragraphs thing, color-coded post-its, and all that was definitely not my route (this is not meant to caricature X's approach, but that of some of my own colleagues). Of course, there are several points that I think are common: I would always, ALWAYS find what the particular professor wanted, and deliver with that in mind, and I would definitely maintain a basic, macro-level grasp of what's going on with the law as the specifics developed throughout class. This is absolutely essential. Taking out the professors' old exams, figuring out what kind of student they like best (by finding common threads in the best answers) and really BECOMING that person on the exam is critical. Take timed versions of the practice exams. Also important always feeling confident with the basic arguments you can deploy, as well as their counter-arguments. With issue-spotting exams, the goal is to lay out your vision of the law, and then as many alternative plausible visions as possible, to rack up the points.

Here's where X and I diverged. I didn't make my own outline at all. I read through my (thorough) notes many times, but only as a supplement to the outlines that others had already produced. It's just not something I thought would be helpful at all. That's not for everyone, but for me, personally, it would've been a hassle, and an added "chore" on top of the daunting task of making sure my brain was on top of everything. Of course, reviewing in your mind is beneficial and necessary, but a formal "outline," for me, would be too full of detail to be all that different from the notes I had. Because law school exams are detail-oriented, I didn't really see why creating my own skeletal outline would be very helpful; rather, I imagined it would distract me. However, I DID outline exam answers to the practice tests, but only to organize my thoughts before I actually wrote them out. I also would make little mini-outlines, if I saw that a particular field of law or doctrine had a dialectical or historical progression, to track the case-by-case development.

I also didn't open a single book or take anyone's advice as sacrosanct. My individual strategy and method was extremely important. Law school is formal and final and full of all sorts of pressure, so trying to stuff yourself into some sort of a box is bound to engender frustration and, for me, poor results. There is no archetypical "law school ace." It's all about you, baby. I found it crucial to talk to my favorite professors weekly and really get to know them, to read and write and play videogames and continue all those things, to keep engaging in my deviant habits, to maintain my lifestyle and not compromise anything. I lived off-campus, and that was definitely a godsend. I picked up new hobbies. I tried to avoid law school mixers and socials and whatever else bullshit they come up with to try to get you to like people that aren't that great. And I made some awesome, like-minded friends. And, when I got my grades, I was both happily surprised and stoically nonplussed. I'd had a good time, regardless.

Now forget all that and do what you need to do.

xeoh85
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby xeoh85 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:01 pm

hypocampus wrote:Law school is formal and final and full of all sorts of pressure, so trying to stuff yourself into some sort of a box is bound to engender frustration and, for me, poor results. There is no archetypical "law school ace."


I completely agree. Take everything you read (including my advice) with a grain of salt. Always remember that what worked for me is but one of many ways to get top law school grades. I'm sure that there are others who took a completely opposite approach and did just as well.

-X

The_Wall
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby The_Wall » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:13 pm

xeo,

I do apologize for cluttering up your thread, particularly after you took the time to post so much material.

Let us know how it goes at HYS.

hypocampus
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby hypocampus » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:18 am

xeoh85 wrote:
hypocampus wrote:Law school is formal and final and full of all sorts of pressure, so trying to stuff yourself into some sort of a box is bound to engender frustration and, for me, poor results. There is no archetypical "law school ace."


I completely agree. Take everything you read (including my advice) with a grain of salt. Always remember that what worked for me is but one of many ways to get top law school grades. I'm sure that there are others who took a completely opposite approach and did just as well.

-X


I dunno about COMPLETELY opposite, though. Being cognizant of the professors' preferred style is indispensable, in my opinion.

unlawfool2010
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby unlawfool2010 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:32 pm

I can vouch for X's studying habits. My studying schedule was very similar to his and I came out also #1 or #2 at my school (not sure because they don't rank, just sent out a distribution chart).

The only difference is I studied at my apt instead of at the library:
My schedule was something like this:
8:30 AM - up and ate breakfast if time permits...although I lived 5 mins driving distance from campus
9:00- 11:00 - class
11:00-1:00 - lunch, spent some time at the library reading.
1:00 - 4:00 - class
4:00-7:00 PM - studied at home, read my cases and then briefed them carefully (which required me to read the cases a second time)
7:00 - 9:00 PM - dinner, TV, hung out with roommates
9:00 - 10:00 PM - talked to boyfriend on phone
10:00 - 12:30 - studied until bedtime

On weekends, I would go visit my boyfriend and did no study until Sunday night, when I came back home.

Like OP, I did all my outlines by myself and also used supplements to understand the materials. However, I did my outline towards the end of the semester and did not read the supplements until I was doing my outlines. I spent at least 3 days on my outline for each class. I think what worked for me was that I was very meticulous with my outlines. I also took as many practice exams as possible. That, I think, is key!

My roommates thought I was pretty crazy for studying all the time. But I think I was very balance because I spent weekends hanging out and weekdays studying. I also loved the materials, so it wasn't work but just something I enjoyed doing.

BTW, I think you should transfer if you get in...which Im sure you will.

xeoh85
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby xeoh85 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:34 pm

And the results are in!

Stanford - Accepted
Harvard - Accepted
Yale - Accepted

:o
Man... And I thought having choices would make life easy... :?

-X

P.S. I'm still busy with work and the law review assignment till monday, but stay tuned for the piece on exam writing as promised.

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thespinstartshere
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby thespinstartshere » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:36 pm

Congrats X, that is amazing news.

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underdawg
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby underdawg » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:42 pm

Was there any doubt? Congrats!

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whenpigsfly
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby whenpigsfly » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:45 pm

Congrats X! And thanks for all of the advice in this thread. Good luck with your decision!

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RATRATRAT
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Re: Should I Transfer from UCLA to HYS?

Postby RATRATRAT » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:45 pm

Wow, congrats. All 3, that's incredible. :shock:




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