Harvard's Kennedy School

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studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:17 pm

bahama wrote:
studylaw7 wrote:there are few at hbs with 0 work experience, i.e., straight from college, although HBS initiated the 2+2 program not too long ago. there are many with 2 yrs experience or less at HBS. many of the top firms have 2 year programs at the end of which employees apply to MBA programs. I'm sure HBS has more people with 2+ years experience than KSG, but the difference is not so significant that if I had 2 years experience, I would think my chances at KSG are much greater than at HBS.

I'll also add that HBS is trending downward in age. The average age keeps decreasing.

From the HBS website they had 16 people with less than 2yrs work and 130 with 2 yrs. Out of a class of about 940.

The MPP progam at Kennedy had a higher % of folks with 0-2 yrs than HBS. One probably has a better chance of getting into the MPP if they have limited experience.

Both schools have a ton of people with 3-4 yrs exp. The MPA programs at the Kennedy school tend a little older and have a reputation for being more selective than the MPP.

The Kennedy School actually has more people in their 30s and 40s because of their mid-career programs.



uhhh...isnt' the general message still the same? average length of work experience is similar for both hbs and ksg? it's obviously not identical, but it's similar. Both seem to target people with 2-3 years experience. I'm not too sure KSG necessarily has more people in their 30s and 40s, though. I think both hbs and ksg have a very limited number of such people but due to hbs' size I think their total number is greater.

bahama
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bahama » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:09 am

The difference is it is much easier to get into Kennedy with < 2yrs work exp.

I would say Kennedy MPP targets people with 2-3 yrs work exp and HBS targets people with 3-5. It's a subtle difference.

bahama
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bahama » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:23 am

studylaw7 wrote:
bahama wrote:I think you're overstating the difficulty of getting into the Kennedy School. The numbers you need to get into the Kennedy School are lower than what you need to get into HBS and much lower than what you need for HLS.

I've interviewed both Kennedy School and HBS people and the HBS people almost always had better numbers and work exp. Plus, I know several people who got into the Kennedy School but rejected by HBS or HLS, which I am sure had something to do with their numbers.


studylaw7 wrote:you've interviewed people. do you really think that's a legit sample size?.

I think ~50 resumes and a smaller number of interviews is a decent (although probably not statistically valid) sample size. And to be clear we are not talking about huge differences here maybe 3.5 vs. 3.6 type of things. The Kennedy people seemed to have a wider variation in numbers and background too.

studylaw7 wrote:all factors considered, difficulty of admission to hbs and hls are about equal and greater than ksg. based on numbers alone, I think KSG is slightly harder to get into, usually because of gpa. On average, I would expect ksg folks who took the gmat to have slightly lower gmat scores than their fellow MBAers but it would be comparable.

I'll agree with most of this except from what I recall the MBA folks had better test scores and slightly better gpas or much more demanding majors vs the Kennedy School folks. I could believe the Kennedy school students have higher GPAs than the MBA students, (although this is not what I remember seeing) but I would argue this probably has a lot to do with undergrad major.

studylaw7 wrote:"I know several people who got into kennedy school but rejected hbs or hls"...this doesn't tell me much. Did these people get a low lsat score? How old were they? What kind of work experience did they have?
The folks that got rejected by HBS were at least mid to late 20s and had good work exp. I don't know all of their numbers but they were good enough for Kennedy while not making it at HBS. For HLS, the person was younger but still got into Kennedy with less than 3 years work exp, although they didn't get into HLS. And I don't know anyone who got into HBS or HLS but rejected by Kennedy. So I'm pretty comfortable saying the bar is lower at Kennedy which I think we agree on.

Anyway, they're all good schools with accomplished and impressive students.

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:07 am

bahama wrote:
studylaw7 wrote:
bahama wrote:I think you're overstating the difficulty of getting into the Kennedy School. The numbers you need to get into the Kennedy School are lower than what you need to get into HBS and much lower than what you need for HLS.

I've interviewed both Kennedy School and HBS people and the HBS people almost always had better numbers and work exp. Plus, I know several people who got into the Kennedy School but rejected by HBS or HLS, which I am sure had something to do with their numbers.


studylaw7 wrote:you've interviewed people. do you really think that's a legit sample size?.

I think ~50 resumes and a smaller number of interviews is a decent (although probably not statistically valid) sample size. And to be clear we are not talking about huge differences here maybe 3.5 vs. 3.6 type of things. The Kennedy people seemed to have a wider variation in numbers and background too.

studylaw7 wrote:all factors considered, difficulty of admission to hbs and hls are about equal and greater than ksg. based on numbers alone, I think KSG is slightly harder to get into, usually because of gpa. On average, I would expect ksg folks who took the gmat to have slightly lower gmat scores than their fellow MBAers but it would be comparable.

I'll agree with most of this except from what I recall the MBA folks had better test scores and slightly better gpas or much more demanding majors vs the Kennedy School folks. I could believe the Kennedy school students have higher GPAs than the MBA students, (although this is not what I remember seeing) but I would argue this probably has a lot to do with undergrad major.

studylaw7 wrote:"I know several people who got into kennedy school but rejected hbs or hls"...this doesn't tell me much. Did these people get a low lsat score? How old were they? What kind of work experience did they have?
The folks that got rejected by HBS were at least mid to late 20s and had good work exp. I don't know all of their numbers but they were good enough for Kennedy while not making it at HBS. For HLS, the person was younger but still got into Kennedy with less than 3 years work exp, although they didn't get into HLS. And I don't know anyone who got into HBS or HLS but rejected by Kennedy. So I'm pretty comfortable saying the bar is lower at Kennedy which I think we agree on.

Anyway, they're all good schools with accomplished and impressive students.



I get the feeling that you attended either hbs or hls and are trying to put ksg down....

bahama
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bahama » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:20 pm

No bone to pick with ksg - actually hope to take some classes there (hls admit) - and I believe ksg is clearly the top program in its field. Just saying it is easier to get into than hls or hbs which I think is a fairly common perception, and the same thing you said...

It seems the only disagreement we have is whether it is easier to get in to Kennedy vs HBS with 0-2yrs work exp. Since neither one of us can definatively answer that I don't think there is anymore to be said on it.

Are you a ksg student/alum?

heyguys
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby heyguys » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:48 pm

IMO, from what I understand the Princeton program >>> KSG mostly because Princeton's has a tuition waiver.

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:05 pm

bahama wrote:No bone to pick with ksg - actually hope to take some classes there (hls admit) - and I believe ksg is clearly the top program in its field. Just saying it is easier to get into than hls or hbs which I think is a fairly common perception, and the same thing you said...

It seems the only disagreement we have is whether it is easier to get in to Kennedy vs HBS with 0-2yrs work exp. Since neither one of us can definatively answer that I don't think there is anymore to be said on it.

Are you a ksg student/alum?


nah, I'm not a ksg student or alum. I think too many people put ksg down even though it's pretty awesome. I think it's usually because of a "superiority" complex. It's the same thing with yls.

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tinman
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby tinman » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:58 pm

studylaw7 wrote:
bahama wrote:No bone to pick with ksg - actually hope to take some classes there (hls admit) - and I believe ksg is clearly the top program in its field. Just saying it is easier to get into than hls or hbs which I think is a fairly common perception, and the same thing you said...

It seems the only disagreement we have is whether it is easier to get in to Kennedy vs HBS with 0-2yrs work exp. Since neither one of us can definatively answer that I don't think there is anymore to be said on it.

Are you a ksg student/alum?


nah, I'm not a ksg student or alum. I think too many people put ksg down even though it's pretty awesome. I think it's usually because of a "superiority" complex. It's the same thing with yls.


I agree that the KSG school is awesome. They have a ton of amazing people from other countries. Perhaps there "numbers" are not as impressive to the TLS crowd, but the people have amazing stories. I used to work at Harvard, so I met a lot of people from there. We have to remember that in most countries, law is not prestigious: it's more of an undergraduate thing, like accounting. So for many people interested in government and interested in studying in America, KSG is the best place in their minds.

Though I didn't understand your YLS comment. Do you mean that people have a superiority complex at YLS or against YLS?

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:10 pm

tinman wrote:
studylaw7 wrote:
bahama wrote:No bone to pick with ksg - actually hope to take some classes there (hls admit) - and I believe ksg is clearly the top program in its field. Just saying it is easier to get into than hls or hbs which I think is a fairly common perception, and the same thing you said...

It seems the only disagreement we have is whether it is easier to get in to Kennedy vs HBS with 0-2yrs work exp. Since neither one of us can definatively answer that I don't think there is anymore to be said on it.

Are you a ksg student/alum?


nah, I'm not a ksg student or alum. I think too many people put ksg down even though it's pretty awesome. I think it's usually because of a "superiority" complex. It's the same thing with yls.


I agree that the KSG school is awesome. They have a ton of amazing people from other countries. Perhaps there "numbers" are not as impressive to the TLS crowd, but the people have amazing stories. I used to work at Harvard, so I met a lot of people from there. We have to remember that in most countries, law is not prestigious: it's more of an undergraduate thing, like accounting. So for many people interested in government and interested in studying in America, KSG is the best place in their minds.

Though I didn't understand your YLS comment. Do you mean that people have a superiority complex at YLS or against YLS?



It wasn't a perfect analogy but my point was that those who put down ksg think they're somehow above it. It's similar to how people put down other law schools in favor of yls, as though they are too good for sls and hls. It's a superiority complex in both ways.

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englawyer
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby englawyer » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:24 pm

HLS is easier than HBS if you have strong numbers but weak overall profile.

HBS is easier than HLS if you have pretty good but not great numbers but strong overall profile (ex a 3yr mckinsey/720 is better off than a 3yr starbucks/780).

if you have a strong overall profile AND strong numbers things are looking very good.

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chutzpah
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby chutzpah » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:32 pm

bump, sort of. any TLSers apply to the joint HLS/HKS program or HKS in addition to law schools?

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby iagolives » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:06 pm

Has anyone heard anything from HKS?

brocklanders12
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby brocklanders12 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:59 pm

I have 2 friends that went to KSG out of undergrad. They both thought it was easy to get into. One went to Stanford undergrad, the other to a small Christian school in the Midwest. They also didn't have a very high view of most of their classmates intellectually. They enjoyed their time there, though.

tomwatts
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby tomwatts » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:58 am

iagolives wrote:Has anyone heard anything from HKS?

I think there's been little but crickets out of HKS for the past four months. I'm curious about HKS's admissions timeline partly because I've learned how quick HLS is about turnaround... but I take it that is not a characteristic of Harvard as a whole.

Hah, that was last year that this person posted this. I take it the crickets until mid-March is an annual thing. Hilarious.




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