Harvard's Kennedy School

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby Fancy Pants » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:09 pm

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studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:44 am

KSG is very hard to get into. It requires solid numbers and solid work experience.

In terms of numbers alone, the difficulty of admission for hls, hbs, and ksg are, from highest to lowest, hls >> ksg> hbs

If you factor in work experience, along with the numbers, order of difficulty in admission, from highest to lowest, is hls/hbs > ksg. hls would roughly be tied with hbs.

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Veyron
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby Veyron » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:47 am

How much work experience is necessary for KSG?

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bloodonthetracks
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bloodonthetracks » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:51 am

Kennedy School doesn't teach you shit. Its primary use is for resume-padding, not learning anything substantive. One of my professors (also a HLS grad) graduated from Kennedy and told me it is a joke.

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:11 am

Veyron wrote:How much work experience is necessary for KSG?


similar to HBS. It can range from 0 full-time work experience to as much as 4 years, but most probably enter with 2 years under their belt. The type of experience differs a lot from the type you see at HBS but length of experience isn't that much different.

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joshikousei
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby joshikousei » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:29 am

studylaw7 wrote:KSG is very hard to get into. It requires solid numbers and solid work experience.

In terms of numbers alone, the difficulty of admission for hls, hbs, and ksg are, from highest to lowest, hls >> ksg> hbs

If you factor in work experience, along with the numbers, order of difficulty in admission, from highest to lowest, is hls/hbs > ksg. hls would roughly be tied with hbs.


this year, hbs has been extremely hard to get into, even for people with substantial work experience.

bahama
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bahama » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:57 am

HLS and HBS are harder to get into than KSG.

KSG is probably harder to get into than other MPA/MPP programs though. Someone who gets into KSG could get into some T14 law schools though or T7 business schools (with work exp). I know several people who went to KSG but got rejected by HBS or HLS. From the people I know the HLS folks had the better nbrs followed by HBS and then KSG slightly behind HBS.

KSG has several different degree programs. Some are targeted at people right out of undergrad while some are looking for a few years of work exp or more (mid career pgms). Their website does a pretty good job of laying out the different programs and what they are looking for.

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Veyron
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby Veyron » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:23 pm

So, is it a fair bet that someone with the creds to get into a T-6 law school and some good w/e during undergrad and some brief but good w/e after grad might have a shot?

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:42 pm

joshikousei wrote:
studylaw7 wrote:KSG is very hard to get into. It requires solid numbers and solid work experience.

In terms of numbers alone, the difficulty of admission for hls, hbs, and ksg are, from highest to lowest, hls >> ksg> hbs

If you factor in work experience, along with the numbers, order of difficulty in admission, from highest to lowest, is hls/hbs > ksg. hls would roughly be tied with hbs.


this year, hbs has been extremely hard to get into, even for people with substantial work experience.


I think the admission percentage is probably lower, because there are more people unemployed applying, but I doubt that the quality of the admit pool is any higher.

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:43 pm

Veyron wrote:So, is it a fair bet that someone with the creds to get into a T-6 law school and some good w/e during undergrad and some brief but good w/e after grad might have a shot?


yes. but your work experience can't be something like investment banking. Kennedy school won't like that (unless you're a MBA dual candidate). lol

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mpasi
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby mpasi » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:20 pm

I have a friend who's attending KSG on a Pickering Fellowship. He seems to love it. I think he's going for the MPP, and he just graduated last May. I guess this is a backup career, considering he got eliminated from American Idol during the Hollywood round.

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:24 pm

mpasi wrote:I have a friend who's attending KSG on a Pickering Fellowship. He seems to love it. I think he's going for the MPP, and he just graduated last May. I guess this is a backup career, considering he got eliminated from American Idol during the Hollywood round.


KSG is a great school. People bash it because they always compare it to hbs and hls, which have been around longer and are more traditional. Looking at the courses offered at KSG, I think it would be really interesting...even moreso than hbs course material.

bahama
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bahama » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:33 pm

studylaw7 wrote:
Veyron wrote:How much work experience is necessary for KSG?


similar to HBS. It can range from 0 full-time work experience to as much as 4 years, but most probably enter with 2 years under their belt. The type of experience differs a lot from the type you see at HBS but length of experience isn't that much different.

This is not correct. Avg work exp for HBS is around 4 yrs and there are very few people with less than 2 yrs.

The MPP takes a lot of people with 2yrs or less of work exp while the business school takes very few. The MPA program requires work experience so its students are closer to the MBA profile. So the amt of work exp depends on the specific degree pgm at the Kennedy school.

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:38 pm

bahama wrote:
studylaw7 wrote:
Veyron wrote:How much work experience is necessary for KSG?


similar to HBS. It can range from 0 full-time work experience to as much as 4 years, but most probably enter with 2 years under their belt. The type of experience differs a lot from the type you see at HBS but length of experience isn't that much different.

This is not correct. Avg work exp for HBS is around 4 yrs and there are very few people with less than 2 yrs.

The MPP takes a lot of people with 2yrs or less of work exp while the business school takes very few. The MPA program requires work experience so its students are closer to the MBA profile. So the amt of work exp depends on the specific degree pgm at the Kennedy school.


there are few at hbs with 0 work experience, i.e., straight from college, although HBS initiated the 2+2 program not too long ago. there are many with 2 yrs experience or less at HBS. many of the top firms have 2 year programs at the end of which employees apply to MBA programs. I'm sure HBS has more people with 2+ years experience than KSG, but the difference is not so significant that if I had 2 years experience, I would think my chances at KSG are much greater than at HBS.

I'll also add that HBS is trending downward in age. The average age keeps decreasing.

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:50 pm

bahama wrote:
studylaw7 wrote:
Veyron wrote:How much work experience is necessary for KSG?


similar to HBS. It can range from 0 full-time work experience to as much as 4 years, but most probably enter with 2 years under their belt. The type of experience differs a lot from the type you see at HBS but length of experience isn't that much different.

This is not correct. Avg work exp for HBS is around 4 yrs and there are very few people with less than 2 yrs.

The MPP takes a lot of people with 2yrs or less of work exp while the business school takes very few. The MPA program requires work experience so its students are closer to the MBA profile. So the amt of work exp depends on the specific degree pgm at the Kennedy school.


For MPP, Harvard states that work experience is "Not required, but at least 2-3 years full-time professional experience preferred", which means there are probably very few right out of college, just as there are very few at HBS.

for MPA2, Harvard requires 3 yrs experience.

The basic message for KSG is that work experience should be in the range of 2-3 yrs.

For HBS, average number of months is slightly less than 4 years. Thus, I think it's pretty clear that if you had 2-3 yrs experience your chances of admission at hbs and ksg do not differ much. Bear in mind too that this is an average number. HBS has some much older people enrolled as well, probably more than at ksg, which pushes up the average.

jaydizzle
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby jaydizzle » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:16 pm

I would love to go to the Kennedy School concurrently with law school or after law school (after I get past this 150s glut :(. I ultimately want a career in government so perhaps working a few years in a U.S. Senator's office might help gain admission to the school.

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Veyron
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby Veyron » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:19 pm

What do you imagine a competitive GRE/GMAT score is for someone at a T-10 law school looking to do a concurrent degree program?

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:20 pm

jaydizzle wrote:I would love to go to the Kennedy School concurrently with law school or after law school (after I get past this 150s glut :(. I ultimately want a career in government so perhaps working a few years in a U.S. Senator's office might help gain admission to the school.



wouldn't we all! :P

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:55 pm

Veyron wrote:What do you imagine a competitive GRE/GMAT score is for someone at a T-10 law school looking to do a concurrent degree program?


to be truly competitive for KSG (non-URM),

GRE - 1450 min
GMAT - 700 min

significant soft factors may lower these numbers.

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Veyron
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby Veyron » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:37 pm

^ Thank you. Its so hard to find this info. How did you arrive at these #s? Does it matter if one score is much higher than the other?

bahama
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bahama » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:47 pm

Where are you getting those GMAT/GRE numbers?

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:27 pm

bahama wrote:Where are you getting those GMAT/GRE numbers?


from my own head. you won't get any definitive numbers of what it takes to be competitive to get in. you can only make your best guess based on what you know of the admissions process.

It's clear that KSG requires solid numbers to get in. 1450 is a good guideline for the GRE to be competitive, and anything below 1400 I think puts you at risk. 700 on the GMAT is slightly below the average GMAT at HBS, so I think 700 is competitive in terms of KSG. Maybe I should up that 700 to 710 because HBS' average GMAT is ~720 now.

bahama
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bahama » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:30 pm

I think you're overstating the difficulty of getting into the Kennedy School. The numbers you need to get into the Kennedy School are lower than what you need to get into HBS and much lower than what you need for HLS.

I've interviewed both Kennedy School and HBS people and the HBS people almost always had better numbers and work exp. Plus, I know several people who got into the Kennedy School but rejected by HBS or HLS, which I am sure had something to do with their numbers.

studylaw7
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby studylaw7 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:45 pm

bahama wrote:I think you're overstating the difficulty of getting into the Kennedy School. The numbers you need to get into the Kennedy School are lower than what you need to get into HBS and much lower than what you need for HLS.

I've interviewed both Kennedy School and HBS people and the HBS people almost always had better numbers and work exp. Plus, I know several people who got into the Kennedy School but rejected by HBS or HLS, which I am sure had something to do with their numbers.


you've interviewed people. do you really think that's a legit sample size?

all factors considered, difficulty of admission to hbs and hls are about equal and greater than ksg. based on numbers alone, I think KSG is slightly harder to get into, usually because of gpa. On average, I would expect ksg folks who took the gmat to have slightly lower gmat scores than their fellow MBAers but it would be comparable.

"I know several people who got into kennedy school but rejected hbs or hls"...this doesn't tell me much. Did these people get a low lsat score? How old were they? What kind of work experience did they have?

bahama
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Re: Harvard's Kennedy School

Postby bahama » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:51 pm

studylaw7 wrote:there are few at hbs with 0 work experience, i.e., straight from college, although HBS initiated the 2+2 program not too long ago. there are many with 2 yrs experience or less at HBS. many of the top firms have 2 year programs at the end of which employees apply to MBA programs. I'm sure HBS has more people with 2+ years experience than KSG, but the difference is not so significant that if I had 2 years experience, I would think my chances at KSG are much greater than at HBS.

I'll also add that HBS is trending downward in age. The average age keeps decreasing.

From the HBS website they had 16 people with less than 2yrs work and 130 with 2 yrs. Out of a class of about 940.

The MPP progam at Kennedy had a higher % of folks with 0-2 yrs than HBS. One probably has a better chance of getting into the MPP if they have limited experience.

Both schools have a ton of people with 3-4 yrs exp. The MPA programs at the Kennedy school tend a little older and have a reputation for being more selective than the MPP.

The Kennedy School actually has more people in their 30s and 40s because of their mid-career programs.




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