Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

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edgarderby
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby edgarderby » Tue May 13, 2008 1:08 am

According to this graph, I am T14 material.

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ari20dal7
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby ari20dal7 » Tue May 13, 2008 1:15 am

You still might be.

mzing12
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby mzing12 » Wed May 14, 2008 12:32 am

Fordham = 163 LSAT? In what world can somebody with a 163 hope to get into Fordham, except incredible luck and charity? The same goes for a lot of the placements on the graph. Does this have any practical purpose?

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wardboro
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby wardboro » Wed May 14, 2008 12:38 am

mzing12 wrote:Fordham = 163 LSAT? In what world can somebody with a 163 hope to get into Fordham, except incredible luck and charity? The same goes for a lot of the placements on the graph. Does this have any practical purpose?


It's for the entering classes of a couple of years ago, Fordham may have gotten more competitive since then. All these are is the median LSAT and GPA points for the 2006 entering class for bunch of schools.

mzing12
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby mzing12 » Wed May 14, 2008 12:40 am

With how popular law school has become as an escape from the crappy job market, next year's numbers will probably go up even more. It's crazy how quickly and how high standards are going up.

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wardboro
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby wardboro » Wed May 14, 2008 12:43 am

I think it's really Fordham that's on the rise. A lot of other lower ranked schools in the T50 are still hovering around the same medians.

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Rosstafarian
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby Rosstafarian » Wed May 14, 2008 12:45 am

Yeah, it's pretty amazing. My (non-URM) friends were admitted to Stanford and UVA in 2004 with a 166 and 164, respectively. Those numbers will barely get you inside the top 25 these days.

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Oklahoma Mike
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby Oklahoma Mike » Wed May 14, 2008 12:50 am

I like the color coding- though the colors for some schools make the text hard to read (Columbia and Cardozo for example)
I think it might be better with the dots the school colors, but the text in black

ran
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby ran » Wed May 14, 2008 1:15 am

Well, the idea was to have the labels easier to read and associate with the datapoints. But I'll darken the CLS, UNC and Cardozo colors.

mzing12
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby mzing12 » Wed May 14, 2008 2:21 am

Cardozo's median is off, too ... it's listed at 161, but its median now is 164 or 165 I think. It's absolutely insane how much standards have risen even only recently. If you could get into Stanford with a 166, now that's not even a sure shot for Cardozo. A 170 isn't even a sure thing for Fordham now. Geez.

tucker
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby tucker » Wed May 14, 2008 2:26 am

It is clear that standards have risen quickly in a few short years however that trend seems to be especially pronounced for NYC schools.

xdistak
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby xdistak » Wed May 14, 2008 9:38 am

mzing12 wrote:Cardozo's median is off, too ... it's listed at 161, but its median now is 164 or 165 I think. It's absolutely insane how much standards have risen even only recently. If you could get into Stanford with a 166, now that's not even a sure shot for Cardozo. A 170 isn't even a sure thing for Fordham now. Geez.



Um, maybe not with a 2.0

mzing12
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby mzing12 » Wed May 14, 2008 10:29 am

incorrect xdisk. I know a few people in the 168-170 range who were waitlisted or rejected from Fordham with a strong GPA, soft factors, WE, etc. These schools are working really hard to keep their upward march in the rankings going, which they can do since NYC is the golden egg of the legal world.

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wardboro
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby wardboro » Wed May 14, 2008 10:43 am

zing, The data isn't THAT old. It's still the most current data that is published on LSAC. The next most current data is for 2007 entering class, and the next most current data after that doesn't exist yet. I think there must be a trend in rising admissions standards for NYC law schools in the 20-70 range over the last couple years. Most other regional schools are pretty much the same.

I guess I can be glad that NYC is one of the last places on earth I'd want to live.

mzing12
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby mzing12 » Wed May 14, 2008 11:07 am

The ABA lists Cardozo's median LSAT as 164 rather than 161 as on the graph, and I'm sure the numbers have gone up for most of the schools as well, making that graph weirdly out of date despite being fairly recent. 1-2 years makes a big difference when they're record application years and schools can take big leaps numbers wise.

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wardboro
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby wardboro » Wed May 14, 2008 11:21 am

I figured out the Fordham problem, it's a full-time/part-time issue. For entering class 2006, 163 is the average median for both programs combined, 165 is the median for the day program.

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gmail
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby gmail » Wed May 14, 2008 11:27 am

This is a dope ass work of art. Imagine where GULC would be without the P/T program....

mzing12
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby mzing12 » Wed May 14, 2008 11:44 am

That's probably the problem - the graph uses the "total" median figure (full time + part time) as opposed to the full-time one which people naturally assume is the one used. I think using the "total" figure is misleading as far as the data being of practical use to anyone, since only the full-time numbers appear in the official reported median which basically rules all of our applications.

A lot of the schools don't have part-time programs, so that creates a weird skew that's apparent at first sight. You should remake that graph using full-time figures only, that way the data is balanced across all schools and is more accurate to reader expectations.

xdistak
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby xdistak » Wed May 14, 2008 12:50 pm

mzing12 wrote:incorrect xdisk. I know a few people in the 168-170 range who were waitlisted or rejected from Fordham with a strong GPA, soft factors, WE, etc. These schools are working really hard to keep their upward march in the rankings going, which they can do since NYC is the golden egg of the legal world.


I forgot Fordham had a PT program bringing down the median LSAT I always see. Day program is more competitive, got it

ran
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby ran » Wed May 14, 2008 2:18 pm

mzing12 wrote:That's probably the problem - the graph uses the "total" median figure (full time + part time) as opposed to the full-time one which people naturally assume is the one used. I think using the "total" figure is misleading as far as the data being of practical use to anyone, since only the full-time numbers appear in the official reported median which basically rules all of our applications.

A lot of the schools don't have part-time programs, so that creates a weird skew that's apparent at first sight. You should remake that graph using full-time figures only, that way the data is balanced across all schools and is more accurate to reader expectations.


Done.

Image

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danko
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby danko » Wed May 14, 2008 3:10 pm

The median LSAT for Georgetown's full-time class is 169, not 168. The median full-time GPA is also slightly higher at 3.71.

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA5244.pdf

ran
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby ran » Wed May 14, 2008 3:15 pm

I've already updated the chart. Try refreshing.

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danko
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby danko » Wed May 14, 2008 7:55 pm

Ah, that did it. My fault.

This is a great chart. I like the detail of using the school colors. Well done.

chill06
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby chill06 » Wed May 14, 2008 8:38 pm

word. gotta add my props.

ran
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Re: Graph of top 50(ish) schools by median GPA and LSAT

Postby ran » Wed May 14, 2008 9:40 pm

Thanks to everyone offering advice or encouragement =)

I'm not sure how helpful the 1L class size numbers are though, since they presumably include both FT and PT students. Any thoughts on this?




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