Top Law Schools

Hello everyone!

I am a prospective law student from Washington state who is currently living in Tokyo, teaching English. I applied to 6 law schools this year and have received a couple of admission offers, and am waiting on a few more. So far, I have been accepted to Seattle University and Willamette University. My problem is this: Seattle U did not offer me a scholarship, whereas Willamette offered me a 60% scholarship. While I know that Seattle is higher ranked according to US News, I could well end up paying $45,000 more over the course of three years to attend Seattle instead of Willamette. Any advice? Some other considerations include employment prospects for my Japanese fiancee who works in the video game industry (Seattle is definitely better than Salem on this point.) I am still not sure what area of law I'd like to focus on, either International Business geared towards Japan and East Asia (to take advantage of my Japanese language skills, East Asian history degree, and 3 years of living here) or Politics and Government (for which Willamette may be better given it is an intimate law school in a small state capital.) I am still hoping to get accepted to the University of Washington Law School, but I figure I have a low chance of getting in given my GPA and LSAT score. So for now, I would greatly appreciate any thoughts concerning my present predicament of Seattle vs. Willamette.

I have enjoyed reading the postings on this forum, and Ken, I applaud your overwhelmingly postive feedback and well-articulated advice. However, there are a few points I would like to make concerning some of the site.

1) On the whole, many of these postings constitute little more than an academic circle-jerk, with most members merely stroking their GPAs and LSATs for the ooohs and ahhhs of others.
2) Generally, anonymous internet postings tend towards exaggeration, and I believe the personal statistics on this forum are probably about as realistic as those that would be found on a gay dating site. I never knew there were so many people out there with 170 LSATs, 3.95 GPAs, and no clues about law schools. More likely, there are a lot of smartass 14 year olds having a laugh making insecure white middle class college kids squirm.
3) Way too many people out there take the LSAT way too seriously. If you really believe that you are only as intelligent as the Law School Admissions Council says you are then I don't want you as my advocate! The LSAT scoring system fails to acknowledge accumulated knowledge, work and life experience, memory, and writing and speaking skills. I regard the LSAT as roughly equivalent to one's 'intellectual penis size,' that is, a rough indicator of performance at best. Besides, if you spend too much time fretting about how 'big' your LSAT score is, and how it compares to the other kids in the law school shower room, you'll probably miss a lot of opportunites to put what you have to it's full potential!

To close, I'd like to say, good luck to everyone out there on getting in to law school and excelling there! Don't worry too much about your paper credentials, try to focus on the big picture: empowering yourselves to help others. Even if you graduate from the worst law school in the U.S., you will still be better off than 98% of people in the rest of the world, and capable of making real changes in the lives of others. Try to remember what Mark Twain said: 'I've never let my schooling interfere with my education.' So again, good luck, and I look forward to hearing your replies and advice.

Hi northwest,

Unfortunately, I can't help directly with your decision, but the DeLoggio website has a very brief comparison between the Seattle University and Willamette University:

--LinkRemoved--

In regard to the rest of your post: I agree that the LSAT is only a rough indicator of performance. I would classify it as a tool helpful in evaluating the potential to excel in law school - and I believe that is how most, if not all, law schools see it, too. That is why so many other factors are considered during the admission process, such as one's writing ability, life experience, recommendations, etc.

If I were to give a future law student a quote as advice, it would be Thomas Edison recognizing that "(g)enius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration."

Hi, Northwest,

I'll leave it to other folks here to respond to the rest of your post, but as to your Seattle/Salem conundrum:

Choose Seattle. That's my two cents. It seems like the schools are roughly equivalent in reputation. So if I were you, I would base my decision on location and the doors each school will open up for you.

Salem is -- if you'll pardon my French -- a real sh*thole. Have you ever visited? Even if you wanted to go into politics, I think you'd be better off going to school in Seattle, with all the connections you'd make there. In Seattle, your options will be infinitely greater. Not to mention your fiancee's options: Salem's economy is the pits, just like most of the rest of Oregon's. I followed my girlfriend to Eugene when she started her grad architecture program at UO, and finding a decent job here was murder.

Another thing: If you want to work in Oregon politics, I think you'd actually be better off going to the University of Oregon. Have you applied? Eugene, as a town, is no great shakes either, but it's a hell of a lot nicer than Salem, which, aside from gov't buildings and Willamette U. is nothing but strip malls, strip clubs, and megachurches. It's a wasteland. To get halfway decent Japanese food, you'll have to drive an hour to Portland.

I'm speaking here as an Oregon (Portland) native, with two good friends who went to Willamette. I've applied for Fall '06 LS admission mostly to schools outside the Northwest.

I hope you get into UW. That seems like the ideal option for you. I have a good friend there now who loves it. Good luck.

Hi Jonas,

I realize this thread is a bit old.

Since you're from Portland, do you have any opinion on Lewis and Clark?

I'm looking to apply to schools in the Pacific NW, and UW would be a reach for me. Therefore, I'm looking primarily at Seattle and Lewis and Clark.

I was wondering if you could give me any insight on the school, its reputation, location, etc.

Thanks.

check out Oregon too, great school and less competitive than UW

I'd like to help you, but I've never checked out a gay dating site so I can't compare

As for Willamette, you might try asking for more money, that might help the decision process. They offered me $24K so they do give more than 60% tuition.

I am from the Northwest and an Oregon undergrad. Here's how I would rank the schools that have been listed. I am leaving out UW however.

1. Oregon
2. Lewis and Clark
3. Seattle
4. Willamette

Salem is not the nicest place in the world but it is livable. Eugene is better, although you will find that if you have connections life is easier. Don't go to Eugene if you don't like hippies though. I have always wanted to go to UO and they still drive me nuts. Anyways, Seattle is a much bigger market as is Portland. Oregon and Lewis and Clark are very similar in their rankings. Both have good environmental law programs if anyone is looking into that. If you are more power to you, I don't think I could handle it.

sorry for the really old bump

if Seattle/Portland were target areas, would the best schools be..

UW
T14(T10?)
L&C/UO/SU

?

T-6 are not options

saltoftheearth wrote:sorry for the really old bump

if Seattle/Portland were target areas, would the best schools be..

UW
T14(T10?)
L&C/UO/SU

?

T-6 are not options

From a few posts I've read on TLS in the past I'd say:

T10 (ties to the region would definitely be a big plus)
UW
T14
the other NW schools

bees wrote:

saltoftheearth wrote:sorry for the really old bump

if Seattle/Portland were target areas, would the best schools be..

UW
T14(T10?)
L&C/UO/SU

?

T-6 are not options

From a few posts I've read on TLS in the past I'd say:

T10 (ties to the region would definitely be a big plus)
UW
T14
the other NW schools

discounting T-6, i'd go with a +1 here.

No1ustad wrote:

bees wrote:

saltoftheearth wrote:sorry for the really old bump

if Seattle/Portland were target areas, would the best schools be..

UW
T14(T10?)
L&C/UO/SU

?

T-6 are not options

From a few posts I've read on TLS in the past I'd say:

T10 (ties to the region would definitely be a big plus)
UW
T14
the other NW schools

discounting T-6, i'd go with a +1 here.

how would you rank "the other NW schools?"


So you really think that Cornell and Georgetown > Lewis & Clark, and Seattle?

^^ I doubt the number of people who go to Georgetown or Cornell that attempt to work in the NW right out of school is high enough to produce any sort of meaningful statistics to answer this.

I think you'd have to have some sort of ties to the area and then it'd end being up about equal (or a slight boost to the higher ranked schools), but this is just a guess. Of course grades have to be taken into account here too.

I'm not sure about ranking the lower schools other than if you want to work in Seattle I'd take SU over OU or L&C. SU is gaining a bit at least in reputation and places at least some of their class at Perkins. One large firm is better than none ITE I'd wager.

saltoftheearth wrote:

No1ustad wrote:

bees wrote:

saltoftheearth wrote:sorry for the really old bump

if Seattle/Portland were target areas, would the best schools be..

UW
T14(T10?)
L&C/UO/SU

?

T-6 are not options

From a few posts I've read on TLS in the past I'd say:

T10 (ties to the region would definitely be a big plus)
UW
T14
the other NW schools

discounting T-6, i'd go with a +1 here.

how would you rank "the other NW schools?"


So you really think that Cornell and Georgetown > Lewis & Clark, and Seattle?

Yes Cornell and Georgetown are definitely better than Lewis & Clark and Seattle. As for the UW vs. T14 debate, it really depends on your goals, if your top priority is living in the Northwest, UW probably gives you the best chance at a good job in the region, but if your priority is a biglaw job, and Seattle is just your prefered location for finding such a job, but you would be willing to go to another region of the country rather than accept something other than biglaw in the Northwest, then someplace like Georgetown or Cornell might be better.

edit: by T14 I'm talking about the lower half of the T14, HYS and probably Berkeley will always be a better choice than UW for the Northwest, and the distinction gets fuzzier and more dependent on the individuals circumstances and goals as you move down from those, to the point where I don't see any good reason why someone would choose a school from UCLA down over UW if they wanted to work in the Northwest.