Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

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j0hnnyboyy

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Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby j0hnnyboyy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:52 pm

Hi everyone, my first time on this forum, so I hope someone can help me.

I was written up my first year of college on two separate occasions. I planned on writing addendums for both incidents.... but when I requested the official records of the write-ups from my college (to ensure there was no discrepancy between my recollection of events and what was officially documented), and I received the following response from the Public Records Office at my university:

"Based on the dates you resided within UC Santa Barbara campus housing your record has timed-out per our five year record retention policy. As such there are no responsive records to your Information Practice Act (IPA) request. At this time we consider your request complete."

Now, I take this to mean that if I can't even access my own dormitory write-up record, that no one can, so I am planning on answering "no" on the question that asks about any disciplinary action taken against you since there is no record of it. Has anyone else ran into a similar situation with your college or university? In a way, I feel like if I were to answer "yes" to that question, there would be no way of actually verifying that what I was saying was true. I don't know, I'm kind of lost on this one.

nixy

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby nixy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:17 pm

Say yes, describe the facts briefly, and explain that the records haven’t been retained. It won’t matter that it can’t be verified.

j0hnnyboyy

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby j0hnnyboyy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:27 pm

For me that begs the question, "if it can't be verified, and there is no record of it ever happening... why even bring it up?" To me, that'd be like calling the police to tell them you were speeding.

cavalier1138

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:45 pm

j0hnnyboyy wrote:For me that begs the question, "if it can't be verified, and there is no record of it ever happening... why even bring it up?" To me, that'd be like calling the police to tell them you were speeding.


You're interested in entering a profession where the code of ethics favors reporting even the appearance of impropriety.

It's not going to hurt your application. Just disclose and move on.

criminaltheory

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby criminaltheory » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:05 pm

j0hnnyboyy wrote:For me that begs the question, "if it can't be verified, and there is no record of it ever happening... why even bring it up?" To me, that'd be like calling the police to tell them you were speeding.


It's more like answering "no" to the question, "Have you ever been stopped by a police officer for speeding?" when you were stopped by police for speeding but let off with a warning.

nixy

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby nixy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:07 pm

j0hnnyboyy wrote:For me that begs the question, "if it can't be verified, and there is no record of it ever happening... why even bring it up?" To me, that'd be like calling the police to tell them you were speeding.

You bring it up because it’s a truthful answer to the question, and truth isn’t a function of whether you have evidence to prove it. So it’s not like calling the police to tell them you were speeding, it’s like answering a question by the police about whether you were speeding. (Scooped)

The incidents aren’t going to have any effect on your application, they just want you to answer honestly. One goal of such a question is to find out stuff about you but the other goal is to see if you’re open/forthcoming.

j0hnnyboyy

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby j0hnnyboyy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:17 pm

Would either of you mind taking a quick look at the addendum I drafted?

During my first year of undergraduate studies, I was “written up” by my Residential Assistant (RA) in the XXX Residence Hall at the University of XXXXX for violating campus housing policies on two separate occasions. The first time I was written up, I violated campus housing policy by being in the possession of and smoking cannabis in the residence hall. In response, I completed XXXX's College Alcohol and Substance Education (CASE) program and attended a workshop on fire safety in a campus housing environment. The second time I was written up, I unintentionally violated the campus residential housing policy while jumping rope for exercise in my dorm. I did not realize that my jumping could be heard in the rooms beneath mine, and unfortunately, I did not hear the responding RA knocking on my door to ask me to stop because I was wearing headphones. When I finished exercising, I turned around and saw a note on the floor stating I was being written up for violating quiet hours policy as well as for refusing to follow staff instructions. During my disciplinary meeting, I explained to the director of the residence hall that these violations were unintentional and that I was unaware that I receiving directions from an RA at the time they wrote me up. After the disciplinary meeting, I completed a Personal Responsibility Seminar to discuss how to avoid any future violations of housing policy. Both of these incidents took place during the first term of my undergraduate career, and I understood the importance of accepting the consequences of my actions as well as fulfilling the resulting obligations. In both instances, I also made sure to eliminate behaviors that would lead to any disciplinary actions in the future. After spending my second and third years residing off-campus, in my fourth year of undergraduate studies, I lived in a different residence hall, XXX Hall. There, I maintained a flawless record after learning from the mistakes I made during my first year of on-campus living. Also, for your awareness, I requested the official record documenting these violations, however, upon submitting the request, I was notified that the record had “timed-out” past the university's record retention timeframe, so there were no “responsive records” they could provide me from my first year of on-campus housing. Therefore, I apologize that I am unable to provide exact dates and times for my violations of campus housing policies, but for the reason stated previously, I no longer have access to that specific information.

QContinuum

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby QContinuum » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:35 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
j0hnnyboyy wrote:For me that begs the question, "if it can't be verified, and there is no record of it ever happening... why even bring it up?" To me, that'd be like calling the police to tell them you were speeding.


You're interested in entering a profession where the code of ethics favors reporting even the appearance of impropriety.

It's not going to hurt your application. Just disclose and move on.

Also, even apart from the ethical considerations, if you don't disclose, and years down the road some enemy of yours comes out of the woodwork and discloses this incident, you could get into serious hot water for your dishonesty. You could have your license suspended and your career ruined. Sure, the risk may be low, but it's not zero, and there's no cost to disclosing, so IMO it's foolish to lie.

Npret

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby Npret » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:48 pm

Your addendum is too long. I would cut all the superfluous info about the incidents and how you did better later.

Leave in that you tried to obtain the information. You don’t have to apologize that it is no longer available.

hlsperson1111

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby hlsperson1111 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:29 am

j0hnnyboyy wrote:Would either of you mind taking a quick look at the addendum I drafted?

During my first year of undergraduate studies, I was “written up” by my Residential Assistant (RA) in the XXX Residence Hall at the University of XXXXX for violating campus housing policies on two separate occasions. The first time I was written up, I violated campus housing policy by being in the possession of and smoking cannabis in the residence hall. In response, I completed XXXX's College Alcohol and Substance Education (CASE) program and attended a workshop on fire safety in a campus housing environment. The second time I was written up, I unintentionally violated the campus residential housing policy while jumping rope for exercise in my dorm. I did not realize that my jumping could be heard in the rooms beneath mine, and unfortunately, I did not hear the responding RA knocking on my door to ask me to stop because I was wearing headphones. When I finished exercising, I turned around and saw a note on the floor stating I was being written up for violating quiet hours policy as well as for refusing to follow staff instructions. During my disciplinary meeting, I explained to the director of the residence hall that these violations were unintentional and that I was unaware that I receiving directions from an RA at the time they wrote me up. After the disciplinary meeting, I completed a Personal Responsibility Seminar to discuss how to avoid any future violations of housing policy. Both of these incidents took place during the first term of my undergraduate career, and I understood the importance of accepting the consequences of my actions as well as fulfilling the resulting obligations. In both instances, I also made sure to eliminate behaviors that would lead to any disciplinary actions in the future. After spending my second and third years residing off-campus, in my fourth year of undergraduate studies, I lived in a different residence hall, XXX Hall. There, I maintained a flawless record after learning from the mistakes I made during my first year of on-campus living. Also, for your awareness, I requested the official record documenting these violations, however, upon submitting the request, I was notified that the record had “timed-out” past the university's record retention timeframe, so there were no “responsive records” they could provide me from my first year of on-campus housing. Therefore, I apologize that I am unable to provide exact dates and times for my violations of campus housing policies, but for the reason stated previously, I no longer have access to that specific information.


During the 20XX-YY school year, I received two citations from my Residential Assistant. On the first occasion, I was cited for possessing and smoking marijuana in the residence hall, and I was required to complete a College Alcohol and Substance Education program and to attend a workshop on fire safety in a campus housing environment. On the second occasion, I was cited for jumping rope indoors, and I was required to complete a Personal Responsibility Seminar, which included a discussion of how to avoid further violations of campus housing policies. I received no other disciplinary citations of any kind at UC Santa Barbara and graduated in good standing.

When I attempted to request my disciplinary records from UC Santa Barbara, I was informed that those records had not been retained pursuant to the school's records retention policy; as a result, I am unable to identify the exact dates and times of the two violations described above.

[No bullshit, no editorializing, nothing but the facts.]

AJordan

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby AJordan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:32 pm

I think this is pretty good. I would add a few more (small) details to the search for records. "On XX I (phoned/emailed) the office of the registrar and was informed that no such record exists." Also, I think RA stands for just "resident assistant" and not residential. Could be wrong on that second one.

Bingo_Bongo

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Re: Dorm Write-Up Record expired and not available

Postby Bingo_Bongo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:55 pm

j0hnnyboyy wrote:For me that begs the question, "if it can't be verified, and there is no record of it ever happening... why even bring it up?" To me, that'd be like calling the police to tell them you were speeding.


To me (and the Bar) it's more like you have a client who is hiding several million dollars from the IRS, but was never 10-99'd, so you tell him, "Hey, if the IRS can't prove it, why disclose it and pay taxes?" And then you and your client go to jail when they inevitably find out.

Believe it or not, this is exactly the type of lawyer C&F is trying to weed out.



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