730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

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Sampson521

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730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Sampson521 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:45 am

So I just stumbled upon the fact that UVA, Cornell, and U of Penn accept GMAT scores instead of Lsat.

I do not have an LSAT score but do have a GMAT score of 730. 730 is approx the mean at HBS, Wharton, etc. and is given as 96%ile.

According to the ets website, my score is equivalent to a 169 GRE verbal/163 GRE math.

Does anyone know if this is competitive at the three schools that accept GMAT? Is this a bad idea?

I imagine I could get a 170-175 LSAT, but obviously that will take some time and money, and wouldn’t it be nice to use a score I already have. Thanks.

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RedGiant

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby RedGiant » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:49 am

As a Tuckie who went to law school later, for the love of God, GO TO BUSINESS SCHOOL. You can do math! Do not pass go. Law is for chumps.

Seriously, b-school is LOADS more fun and interesting than law school. So if you're gonna just fire up some debt, just do it. Unless your GMAT was highly skewed quant, the reading comp is the same, there is no sentence correction/data sufficiency/math. You should do fine on the LSAT and you want to have as many law school options as possible so you can compare financial aid. GL.

And truly, check out Tuck. It's a special place that has opened one million doors for me.

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:23 am

According to your prior thread, you already went to business school. I assume you worked for some time afterwards. So is your GMAT score still good?

Assuming it is, I'd second the advice that applying with a test that is only accepted at three schools is a bad idea. The LSAT gives you way more flexibility and bargaining power down the line. I'd also add that you shouldn't go to law school unless you actually want to be a lawyer.

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Npret » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:14 am

RedGiant wrote:As a Tuckie who went to law school later, for the love of God, GO TO BUSINESS SCHOOL. You can do math! Do not pass go. Law is for chumps.

Seriously, b-school is LOADS more fun and interesting than law school. So if you're gonna just fire up some debt, just do it. Unless your GMAT was highly skewed quant, the reading comp is the same, there is no sentence correction/data sufficiency/math. You should do fine on the LSAT and you want to have as many law school options as possible so you can compare financial aid. GL.

And truly, check out Tuck. It's a special place that has opened one million doors for me.

OP already went to business school at Chicago. He’s for some unkinown, unarticulated reason considering law school now. I don’t think he wants to be a lawyer but seems to want to go to law school.

OP I understand you are in the primary stage of looking at law school as an option. What you should be doing is investigating the practice of law to decide if that’s where you want to take your career.

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby QContinuum » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 am

I echo the consensus ITT that applying to law school with the GMAT is a bad idea, and that applying at all may be a bad idea if OP's motivation is anything other than a burning desire to practice law. To head off two potential rationales at the pass, 1) law school will not help accelerate one's business career (quite the opposite, as nonlegal employers will be reluctant to hire someone they perceive to be a flight risk), and 2) law school will also not help one save on legal fees for their own business (because law school grads aren't "practice-ready" in any sense absent at least a few years of on-the-job training).

Sampson521

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Sampson521 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:57 pm

Thank you all.

Consensus is unanimous that using GMAT to apply to law school is dumb so I will shelve that idea. Thanks for the input.

Regarding why law school, I’ll give you my burgeoning rationale that I have a feeling will be pilloried :)

1.) My inherent strengths are in verbal reasoning, reading, writing, and public speaking. My weaknesses are pure finance/excel, which turned me off of the major b-school jobs (I banking, PE, Management consulting). I have not yet been a lawyer, but I *think* I would excel at reading, reasoning, revising, and communicating arguments - both orally and in writing.

2.) This is no doubt going to be ridiculed, but when I look at the bios of people I admire and who I deem to be leading interesting and impactful lives, many of them have a law degree. This would be Preet Bharara, Asha Rangappa, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Bob Mueller, etc. Obviously they are the superstars but even people under them in public policy, judgeships, DOJ, and advocacy groups like ACLU seem to have “arrows in their quivers” so to speak by having a law degree.

3.) I would envision a career path something like: Attend a top 10 school at 32, graduate at 35. Then clerkship/biglaw for 2-3 years, then on to something longer term that could range from DOJ to FBI to ACLU to partner track to in-house at a great company. 31 and MBA definietly seems late to the party, but when I consider I would be out of school by 35 and well on a legal career path by 38, it doesn’t seem that crazy.

Happy for you guys to reality check me. Thanks.

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Npret » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:39 pm

Your age isn’t a concern.
Have you done any public interest volunteer work? Something that you’ve found meaningful that you would like to pursue? If not, I urge you to do some volunteer work and see what it’s like. If you want to get jobs in public interest, you will definitely be questioned about your public interest background.

My advice, again, is to look at the at jobs you might be doing. Talk to people about their day to day work Law school is an expensive and time consuming degree that you may not need to achieve the career you want in public interest.

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:42 pm

Did you notice that none of your reasons included a desire to practice law?

Imagine I came to you and said I wanted to go to med school. I'm pretty good at biology, and I admire a lot of doctors. My main career goal is to be head of my department in a prestigious practice area. Think I should do it?

Sampson521

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Sampson521 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:05 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Did you notice that none of your reasons included a desire to practice law?

Imagine I came to you and said I wanted to go to med school. I'm pretty good at biology, and I admire a lot of doctors. My main career goal is to be head of my department in a prestigious practice area. Think I should do it?


Thanks. But don’t my stated reasons of “biglaw” “clerkship” “in-house at a great company” all directly imply practicing law?

And my interests in DOJ, judgeships, and ACLU are also in practicing law for those orgs.

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:27 pm

Sampson521 wrote:Thanks. But don’t my stated reasons of “biglaw” “clerkship” “in-house at a great company” all directly imply practicing law?

And my interests in DOJ, judgeships, and ACLU are also in practicing law for those orgs.


Your interests appear to be in literally anything that people would see as "prestigious" legal practice (with very little overlap in terms of actual practice area interests). That's fine, but it doesn't really speak to a burning desire to be a lawyer. Everything you've posted on here makes it sound like law is a backup option for you.

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Npret » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:42 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Sampson521 wrote:Thanks. But don’t my stated reasons of “biglaw” “clerkship” “in-house at a great company” all directly imply practicing law?

And my interests in DOJ, judgeships, and ACLU are also in practicing law for those orgs.


Your interests appear to be in literally anything that people would see as "prestigious" legal practice (with very little overlap in terms of actual practice area interests). That's fine, but it doesn't really speak to a burning desire to be a lawyer. Everything you've posted on here makes it sound like law is a backup option for you.

It does sound like you’re just listing job titles with little understanding of the work. That puts you in the same place as almost all other 0Ls. The difference here is you have other career options and presumably more real world experience. You may also understand the value of the investment of time and money law school requires.

You shouldn’t go to law school until you know more about the career. Neither should anyone else but I’m hopeful you might see this as valuable advice.

Sampson521

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Sampson521 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:17 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Sampson521 wrote:Thanks. But don’t my stated reasons of “biglaw” “clerkship” “in-house at a great company” all directly imply practicing law?

And my interests in DOJ, judgeships, and ACLU are also in practicing law for those orgs.


Your interests appear to be in literally anything that people would see as "prestigious" legal practice (with very little overlap in terms of actual practice area interests). That's fine, but it doesn't really speak to a burning desire to be a lawyer. Everything you've posted on here makes it sound like law is a backup option for you.


This is probably fair.

Hard to argue it’s not a backup plan if I’m considering it at 31.

And hard to argue I don’t like prestige if I went to Harvard ;)

Sampson521

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Sampson521 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:20 pm

Npret wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Sampson521 wrote:Thanks. But don’t my stated reasons of “biglaw” “clerkship” “in-house at a great company” all directly imply practicing law?

And my interests in DOJ, judgeships, and ACLU are also in practicing law for those orgs.


Your interests appear to be in literally anything that people would see as "prestigious" legal practice (with very little overlap in terms of actual practice area interests). That's fine, but it doesn't really speak to a burning desire to be a lawyer. Everything you've posted on here makes it sound like law is a backup option for you.

It does sound like you’re just listing job titles with little understanding of the work. That puts you in the same place as almost all other 0Ls. The difference here is you have other career options and presumably more real world experience. You may also understand the value of the investment of time and money law school requires.

You shouldn’t go to law school until you know more about the career. Neither should anyone else but I’m hopeful you might see this as valuable advice.


Thank you. Yes, it certainly would require more thought and consideration.

Maybe I’ll study for and take the LSAT as a first step, which isn’t terribly destructive and still allows for a lot of off ramps

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby RealCoolHand » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:15 am

OK, Sampson, I support your quest. Obviously, I am not a lawyer, because it I were, I would be telling you to run screaming from the law. A few observations:
1) some people just enjoy pain--you seem to belong to this camp
2) if a law degree isn't really just about prestige, then why do they only really look at the numerical attributes of candidates?
3) I've owned a Lambo and I wish I'd bought a JD from Yale instead

There, I've said it. Let the flames rain down on me!

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Npret » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 am

RealCoolHand wrote:OK, Sampson, I support your quest. Obviously, I am not a lawyer, because it I were, I would be telling you to run screaming from the law. A few observations:
1) some people just enjoy pain--you seem to belong to this camp
2) if a law degree isn't really just about prestige, then why do they only really look at the numerical attributes of candidates?
3) I've owned a Lambo and I wish I'd bought a JD from Yale instead

There, I've said it. Let the flames rain down on me!


0Ls telling each other to go to law school is always charming. Just believe in yourself OP! Don’t be concerned about lawyers advising you to carefully consider the career!

If OP is independently wealthy they can buy whatever they want. Sadly law degrees from Yale aren’t handed out to the highest bidder. OP hasn’t said that money is no object.

Law is extremely prestige obsessed. Listing prestigious jobs doesn’t mean a person knows anything about them.

My concern about OP (as I’ve said a few times) is he knows nothing at all about the actual job of being a lawyer. Quite likely you are in the same camp.

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby nixy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:19 am

Sampson521 wrote:2.) This is no doubt going to be ridiculed, but when I look at the bios of people I admire and who I deem to be leading interesting and impactful lives, many of them have a law degree. This would be Preet Bharara, Asha Rangappa, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Bob Mueller, etc. Obviously they are the superstars but even people under them in public policy, judgeships, DOJ, and advocacy groups like ACLU seem to have “arrows in their quivers” so to speak by having a law degree.

What I find confusing about this is describing the people who work for Bharara etc as having “arrows on their quivers” by having law degrees. This implies the law degree is some kind of bonus/add-on - but for the vast majority of people you’re thinking of, the JD is the price of admission *because they’re lawyers.* It does come across a bit like “I admire the people who work for Doctors Without Borders and they all have MDs.” Well, yes, they have to because they’re doctors.

It’s just a slightly confusing way to word it because you very much didn’t describe them as “the people I admire who are living interesting and impactful lives *as lawyers*” or “the people doing the work I want to do.” (I know Bharra and Asha aren’t currently practicing so slightly different, but the gigs they have now are because they worked as lawyers, not because they have JDs.)

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Re: 730 GMAT for UVA, Penn, Cornell

Postby Bs.student00 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:41 am

Bump

The same question.
I'm international 30y, US MBA grad, noGPA (3.95 from international university), GMAT 730 (96%) with verbal 97%. I have experience in VC world and want to go to Law School to work in VC/PE/IB in the future. I'm taking LSAT in Nov. but bc English is a 2nd language I struggle sometimes. My PT scores are around 170 with silly mistakes.
Do you think my profile is competitive? With admission consults would you recommend? Maybe someone will volunteer to talk in personal massages?



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