UVA, PENN or UMICH ED Forum

[MFLeviathan]

TLS Community:

I am looking to apply this fall for 2019 Law school enrollment and am debating between Penn, UVA, or Umich ED. My LSAT is 166 and LSAC GPA is ~3.95. I have taken the lsat 3x so no chance at retake. My softs/WE is decent and letters will be average.

Any insight would be appreciated,
Thanks

[SomewhatLearnedHand]

Kind of impossible to answer without knowing your career goals / where you want to practice.

[MFLeviathan]

Kind of impossible to answer without knowing your career goals / where you want to practice.

Goal is to practice big law out of law school ideally in a bigger city (New york, chicago or D.C.).

[SomewhatLearnedHand]

All of those schools can get you NYC big law, but Umich will be best for Chicago market, and I believe UVA does pretty well in DC. (though D.C is super competitive no matter what).

[Wild Card]

I took the LSAT 5 times.

Retake.

[sparkytrainer]

Honestly, retaking is huge. 4 more points and you are getting $$$ at those schools. But why did your list ignore Duke? It has a better biglaw and fed clerk percentage than all those schools in that peer group? Its second to none only to Columbia.

But yeah, retake.

[AdieuCali]

You should not ED at any of those schools. You’re likely to get into at least one of them regular decision anyways. http://mylsn.info/hw3bvz/. Maybe with $. And apparently you might have a shot at UC with money too.

ED data is harder to find, but even if ED-ing increased your odds at MVP, don’t count on any $$. http://mylsn.info/67eyzb/

The one exception is NW. they have a full ride ED. Seems like you’d be in good shape for that scholly if you’re comfortable committing to living in Chi, potentially long term.

[bunsenburner]

None of the above. You won't get in to any of them, and if by some miracle you did you wouldn't get any aid and would die poor and lonely while trying to pay off $300k+ in loans. Retake the LSAT, then apply RD. If you retake and don't do at least 3 points better, retake again. If you still aren't happy with your score, recalibrate your goals to match your LSAT.

[KPUSN07]

None of the above. You won't get in to any of them, and if by some miracle you did you wouldn't get any aid and would die poor and lonely while trying to pay off $300k+ in loans. Retake the LSAT, then apply RD. If you retake and don't do at least 3 points better, retake again. If you still aren't happy with your score, recalibrate your goals to match your LSAT.

Why wouldn't he get into any of them? He's above the median near 75% on GPA and has a solid LSAT.

[bunsenburner]

None of the above. You won't get in to any of them, and if by some miracle you did you wouldn't get any aid and would die poor and lonely while trying to pay off $300k+ in loans. Retake the LSAT, then apply RD. If you retake and don't do at least 3 points better, retake again. If you still aren't happy with your score, recalibrate your goals to match your LSAT.

Why wouldn't he get into any of them? He's above the median near 75% on GPA and has a solid LSAT.

Solid compared to the nationwide pool sure, but OP is significantly below median at all of these schools. That's what matters.

Yes, there is a chance that they would get in, especially if one of these schools thinks they need a reverse splitter to balance out a splitter and they know they're getting them at sticker price because they ED'd. My 2nd point stands: OP, do not throw your financial future away by taking on debt to pay full price at any of these schools. ESPECIALLY with that gorgeous GPA. Retake, retake, retake until your LSAT makes you competitive for aid at these schools or even better ones.

[AdieuCali]

None of the above. You won't get in to any of them, and if by some miracle you did you wouldn't get any aid and would die poor and lonely while trying to pay off $300k+ in loans. Retake the LSAT, then apply RD. If you retake and don't do at least 3 points better, retake again. If you still aren't happy with your score, recalibrate your goals to match your LSAT.

Why wouldn't he get into any of them? He's above the median near 75% on GPA and has a solid LSAT.

Solid compared to the nationwide pool sure, but OP is significantly below median at all of these schools. That's what matters.

Yes, there is a chance that they would get in, especially if one of these schools thinks they need a reverse splitter to balance out a splitter and they know they're getting them at sticker price because they ED'd. My 2nd point stands: OP, do not throw your financial future away by taking on debt to pay full price at any of these schools. ESPECIALLY with that gorgeous GPA. Retake, retake, retake until your LSAT makes you competitive for aid at these schools or even better ones.

Yeah I agree s/he shouldn't ED anywhere except Northwestern, but it's just not accurate to say s/he won't get in. 166 is at or above the 25% at UC (166), NYU (166), Penn (163), Michigan (164), UVA (163), and the rest of the lower T-14. Being above median helps, but that's not the only way to get admitted, especially if his/her GPA is >75%. Over half of all admitted students are at or below median!

Look at the chart again. http://mylsn.info/hw3bvz In the last 5 cycles, the following number of non-URM, non-ED applicants with OP's LSAT and GPA reported being accepted by these schools:
H: 1
UC: 13
NYU: 9
Penn: 11
M: 14
V: 19
D: 16
Many got decent $$ too.

And OP has a shot apparently at the Northwestern $150k scholarship, since someone with OP's stats got it two years ago. http://lawschoolnumbers.com/SamDiP

OP, apply to NU ED since you're good with Chicago, retake in November and apply broadly to UC and below when you get your score back in December. Upping your score by 2-3 points gives you a very long shot at HYS, but would also add $40-$60k in scholarships at CCN down. http://mylsn.info/4ekk9g/ Until you're a Biglaw partner, you'll never be able to make so much more money for doing such little additional work in your legal career.

[bunsenburner]

None of the above. You won't get in to any of them, and if by some miracle you did you wouldn't get any aid and would die poor and lonely while trying to pay off $300k+ in loans. Retake the LSAT, then apply RD. If you retake and don't do at least 3 points better, retake again. If you still aren't happy with your score, recalibrate your goals to match your LSAT.

Why wouldn't he get into any of them? He's above the median near 75% on GPA and has a solid LSAT.

Solid compared to the nationwide pool sure, but OP is significantly below median at all of these schools. That's what matters.

Yes, there is a chance that they would get in, especially if one of these schools thinks they need a reverse splitter to balance out a splitter and they know they're getting them at sticker price because they ED'd. My 2nd point stands: OP, do not throw your financial future away by taking on debt to pay full price at any of these schools. ESPECIALLY with that gorgeous GPA. Retake, retake, retake until your LSAT makes you competitive for aid at these schools or even better ones.

Yeah I agree s/he shouldn't ED anywhere except Northwestern, but it's just not accurate to say s/he won't get in. 166 is at or above the 25% at UC (166), NYU (166), Penn (163), Michigan (164), UVA (163), and the rest of the lower T-14. Being above median helps, but that's not the only way to get admitted, especially if his/her GPA is >75%. Over half of all admitted students are at or below median!

Look at the chart again. http://mylsn.info/hw3bvz In the last 5 cycles, the following number of non-URM, non-ED applicants with OP's LSAT and GPA reported being accepted by these schools:
H: 1
UC: 13
NYU: 9
Penn: 11
M: 14
V: 19
D: 16
Many got decent $$ too.

And OP has a shot apparently at the Northwestern $150k scholarship, since someone with OP's stats got it two years ago. http://lawschoolnumbers.com/SamDiP

OP, apply to NU ED since you're good with Chicago, retake in November and apply broadly to UC and below when you get your score back in December. Upping your score by 2-3 points gives you a very long shot at HYS, but would also add $40-$60k in scholarships at CCN down. http://mylsn.info/4ekk9g/ Until you're a Biglaw partner, you'll never be able to make so much more money for doing such little additional work in your legal career.

Yeah OP I just want to stress to you that everyone here is in agreement that you've got to retake. I'm still bearish on whether you get in; you're leaving it up to chance at 166. If you do get in, the financial situation is not pretty. But in the end, we all agree that your prospects improve dramatically if you go up a couple of points.