Is Fordham a good law school?

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dlutfy

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Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:53 pm

I got accepted into Fordham with a 135 k scholarship. In tuition and fees, I'll be paying 15k a year.

I want to do biglaw. According to LST, Fordham as a 41 percent big law + federal clerkship rate, which seems really good for a school ranked in the 30s. Is this a good school for me?

I have a 3.93 and a 167. I'm taking again in February because I have bad text anxiety. I took PT 83 without studying since September and I got a 174, so I think I'm gonna improve.

My only other options right now are Seton Hall at a full scholarship and George Washington with the same 135k scholarship. I was dinged at Cornell, and I'm waiting to hear from NYU, Columbia, Chicago, and Upenn.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:10 pm

If you want to do biglaw, a T13 is a much better bet, and a few more points on the LSAT will get you a T13 with money.

Don't look at whether a school is good for its placement in the rankings. Look at whether a school is a good fit for your goals.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby pointplace » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:22 pm

dlutfy wrote:I got accepted into Fordham with a 135 k scholarship. In tuition and fees, I'll be paying 15k a year.

I want to do biglaw. According to LST, Fordham as a 41 percent big law + federal clerkship rate, which seems really good for a school ranked in the 30s. Is this a good school for me?

I have a 3.93 and a 167. I'm taking again in February because I have bad text anxiety. I took PT 83 without studying since September and I got a 174, so I think I'm gonna improve.

My only other options right now are Seton Hall at a full scholarship and George Washington with the same 135k scholarship. I was dinged at Cornell, and I'm waiting to hear from NYU, Columbia, Chicago, and Upenn.



Similar stats (slightly lower GPA and 1 point higher on LSAT). I am receiving a similar scholarship to the one you are at Fordham at a t10 (think NYU, Penn, UVA). I know that admissions might be up this year but this seems like an objectively bad outcome for your stats. Further, your COA will still put you in 100k + in debt and that big law chance would scare the shit out of me as I wait for 1L Fall grades to be posted.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:42 pm

pointplace wrote:
dlutfy wrote:I got accepted into Fordham with a 135 k scholarship. In tuition and fees, I'll be paying 15k a year.

I want to do biglaw. According to LST, Fordham as a 41 percent big law + federal clerkship rate, which seems really good for a school ranked in the 30s. Is this a good school for me?

I have a 3.93 and a 167. I'm taking again in February because I have bad text anxiety. I took PT 83 without studying since September and I got a 174, so I think I'm gonna improve.

My only other options right now are Seton Hall at a full scholarship and George Washington with the same 135k scholarship. I was dinged at Cornell, and I'm waiting to hear from NYU, Columbia, Chicago, and Upenn.



Similar stats (slightly lower GPA and 1 point higher on LSAT). I am receiving a similar scholarship to the one you are at Fordham at a t10 (think NYU, Penn, UVA). I know that admissions might be up this year but this seems like an objectively bad outcome for your stats. Further, your COA will still put you in 100k + in debt and that big law chance would scare the shit out of me as I wait for 1L Fall grades to be posted.


I would live with my parents so I wouldn't have that debt. My LSAT is below median at every t14 so I don't see how it's that bad. I only have to be in the top 40 percent of Fordham to get biglaw, and I don't think that's too bad of a bet. If I can't be in the top 40 percent of biglaw there's no reason to think I would be in the top 65/70 percent of NYU, UVA, or Penn.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:50 pm

dlutfy wrote:
pointplace wrote:
dlutfy wrote:I got accepted into Fordham with a 135 k scholarship. In tuition and fees, I'll be paying 15k a year.

I want to do biglaw. According to LST, Fordham as a 41 percent big law + federal clerkship rate, which seems really good for a school ranked in the 30s. Is this a good school for me?

I have a 3.93 and a 167. I'm taking again in February because I have bad text anxiety. I took PT 83 without studying since September and I got a 174, so I think I'm gonna improve.

My only other options right now are Seton Hall at a full scholarship and George Washington with the same 135k scholarship. I was dinged at Cornell, and I'm waiting to hear from NYU, Columbia, Chicago, and Upenn.



Similar stats (slightly lower GPA and 1 point higher on LSAT). I am receiving a similar scholarship to the one you are at Fordham at a t10 (think NYU, Penn, UVA). I know that admissions might be up this year but this seems like an objectively bad outcome for your stats. Further, your COA will still put you in 100k + in debt and that big law chance would scare the shit out of me as I wait for 1L Fall grades to be posted.


I would live with my parents so I wouldn't have that debt. My LSAT is below median at every t14 so I don't see how it's that bad. I only have to be in the top 40 percent of Fordham to get biglaw, and I don't think that's too bad of a bet. If I can't be in the top 40 percent of biglaw there's no reason to think I would be in the top 65/70 percent of NYU, UVA, or Penn.



Fordham is a good law school. The thing is when you ask a question like that it isn't in a vacuum. You have an amazing GPA and if you were PT'ing higher and nerves got the best of you, retaking is 100% the correct option here. With your GPA and a 172+ you have a great chance at NYU/Columbia + $ where your chances at big law will be much, much better.

in sum, if your end goal is BL and your GPA is a 3.93, don't settle for less than T13. Preferably with a nice scholly!

Good luck!
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

HydroFlask666

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby HydroFlask666 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:51 pm

PointPlace is right. This seems like an objectively bad outcome with your stats. Did you agree to do the interview? Did you slack off on the app where it asks your reasons for wanting to go to Cornell and who influenced you to apply? See the following:

http://mylsn.info/989qeb/

cavalier1138

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:51 pm

dlutfy wrote:I would live with my parents so I wouldn't have that debt. My LSAT is below median at every t14 so I don't see how it's that bad. I only have to be in the top 40 percent of Fordham to get biglaw, and I don't think that's too bad of a bet. If I can't be in the top 40 percent of biglaw there's no reason to think I would be in the top 65/70 percent of NYU, UVA, or Penn.


That's not how it works.

The schools you mentioned are actually much less competitive than Fordham, because the students there know that they don't necessarily have to beat the median to get a good job. You also need to look at the numbers over time. Fordham's biglaw numbers jumped up a lot last year. They tend to hover around 33% biglaw/FC placement, and regardless, that's a hell of a lot less than any of the T13.

It is beyond ridiculous to count on yourself to place in the top third of your class in law school but not to squeeze out a few more points on a learnable standardized test. Stop talking yourself out of the right decision. Law school isn't going anywhere.

ETA: I also agree that you underperformed your numbers. You should have some lower T13 acceptances as is.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:08 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
dlutfy wrote:I would live with my parents so I wouldn't have that debt. My LSAT is below median at every t14 so I don't see how it's that bad. I only have to be in the top 40 percent of Fordham to get biglaw, and I don't think that's too bad of a bet. If I can't be in the top 40 percent of biglaw there's no reason to think I would be in the top 65/70 percent of NYU, UVA, or Penn.


That's not how it works.

The schools you mentioned are actually much less competitive than Fordham, because the students there know that they don't necessarily have to beat the median to get a good job. You also need to look at the numbers over time. Fordham's biglaw numbers jumped up a lot last year. They tend to hover around 33% biglaw/FC placement, and regardless, that's a hell of a lot less than any of the T13.

It is beyond ridiculous to count on yourself to place in the top third of your class in law school but not to squeeze out a few more points on a learnable standardized test. Stop talking yourself out of the right decision. Law school isn't going anywhere.

ETA: I also agree that you underperformed your numbers. You should have some lower T13 acceptances as is.


My original post says I'm retaking. I'm signed up for February. I never said I can't get a few more points.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:12 pm

HydroFlask666 wrote:PointPlace is right. This seems like an objectively bad outcome with your stats. Did you agree to do the interview? Did you slack off on the app where it asks your reasons for wanting to go to Cornell and who influenced you to apply? See the following:

http://mylsn.info/989qeb/


I declined the interview. I didn't really want to go to Cornell, even for a huge scholarship. I have really bad seasonal affective disorder and the weather up there would exacerbate it.

I'm also not necessarily going to Fordham. I just wanted to know what people think, but I can't imagine any of the schools I'm waiting on to give me more scholarship. I'd rather do Fordham with my scholarship than Upenn for sticker.

Obviously me retaking and getting a 170+ is optimal, but I can't see any schools in the top 14 giving me money with my stats. I'm debt averse and I don't see the point of going into debt to get biglaw. I'd rather take a risk at Fordham and bet on myself being in the top 40 percent.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:03 pm

dlutfy wrote:
HydroFlask666 wrote:PointPlace is right. This seems like an objectively bad outcome with your stats. Did you agree to do the interview? Did you slack off on the app where it asks your reasons for wanting to go to Cornell and who influenced you to apply? See the following:

http://mylsn.info/989qeb/


I declined the interview. I didn't really want to go to Cornell, even for a huge scholarship. I have really bad seasonal affective disorder and the weather up there would exacerbate it.

I'm also not necessarily going to Fordham. I just wanted to know what people think, but I can't imagine any of the schools I'm waiting on to give me more scholarship. I'd rather do Fordham with my scholarship than Upenn for sticker.

Obviously me retaking and getting a 170+ is optimal, but I can't see any schools in the top 14 giving me money with my stats. I'm debt averse and I don't see the point of going into debt to get biglaw. I'd rather take a risk at Fordham and bet on myself being in the top 40 percent.


This is objectively silly.

Why not bet on yourself getting that 170+ and getting money in the T13? You might still get money in the lower T13 with your current numbers, but a 170+ puts you in full ride territory.

You cannot bet on beating the median. You cannot bet that Fordham's biglaw jump will hold steady for another couple of years.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:05 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
dlutfy wrote:
HydroFlask666 wrote:PointPlace is right. This seems like an objectively bad outcome with your stats. Did you agree to do the interview? Did you slack off on the app where it asks your reasons for wanting to go to Cornell and who influenced you to apply? See the following:

http://mylsn.info/989qeb/


I declined the interview. I didn't really want to go to Cornell, even for a huge scholarship. I have really bad seasonal affective disorder and the weather up there would exacerbate it.

I'm also not necessarily going to Fordham. I just wanted to know what people think, but I can't imagine any of the schools I'm waiting on to give me more scholarship. I'd rather do Fordham with my scholarship than Upenn for sticker.

Obviously me retaking and getting a 170+ is optimal, but I can't see any schools in the top 14 giving me money with my stats. I'm debt averse and I don't see the point of going into debt to get biglaw. I'd rather take a risk at Fordham and bet on myself being in the top 40 percent.


This is objectively silly.

Why not bet on yourself getting that 170+ and getting money in the T13? You might still get money in the lower T13 with your current numbers, but a 170+ puts you in full ride territory.

You cannot bet on beating the median. You cannot bet that Fordham's biglaw jump will hold steady for another couple of years.


Why does everyone in this thread think I'm not gonna retake? I said in my original post I'm gonna retake in February and I said in multiple responses I'm gonna retake.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:12 pm

dlutfy wrote:Why does everyone in this thread think I'm not gonna retake? I said in my original post I'm gonna retake in February and I said in multiple responses I'm gonna retake.


I don't think you aren't going to retake. I think you're going to make a dumb decision and go to Fordham instead of a school that gives you a much, much, much better shot at your career goals.

If you stop talking about how you're going to "bet on yourself" doing well at Fordham, I think people might start to believe that you're serious about retaking and getting better options.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:15 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
dlutfy wrote:Why does everyone in this thread think I'm not gonna retake? I said in my original post I'm gonna retake in February and I said in multiple responses I'm gonna retake.


I don't think you aren't going to retake. I think you're going to make a dumb decision and go to Fordham instead of a school that gives you a much, much, much better shot at your career goals.

If you stop talking about how you're going to "bet on yourself" doing well at Fordham, I think people might start to believe that you're serious about retaking and getting better options.


I'm registered for the February test. lmao. What are you talking about?

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby chargers21 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:18 pm

Fwiw, Ithaca weather is not that much worse than NYC and your numbers are capable of pulling a 120k scholarship to Cornell. I think you made a poor choice to blow off the interview.

Aside from that, if your app doesn't suck you have a good chance at paying at or near full price at one of NYU, Penn, or UChi even with your current numbers. Almost guaranteed ding at Columbia.

If you have serious SAD you probably should consider Duke or Berkeley

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:19 pm

chargers21 wrote:Fwiw, Ithaca weather is not that much worse than NYC and your numbers are capable of pulling a 120k scholarship to Cornell. I think you made a poor choice to blow off the interview.

Aside from that, if your app doesn't suck you have a good chance at paying at or near full price at one of NYU, Penn, or UChi even with your current numbers. Almost guaranteed ding at Columbia.

If you have serious SAD you probably should consider Duke or Berkeley


Do you think those schools at sticker are better options than going to Fordham for no debt?

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby chargers21 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:24 pm

dlutfy wrote:
chargers21 wrote:Fwiw, Ithaca weather is not that much worse than NYC and your numbers are capable of pulling a 120k scholarship to Cornell. I think you made a poor choice to blow off the interview.

Aside from that, if your app doesn't suck you have a good chance at paying at or near full price at one of NYU, Penn, or UChi even with your current numbers. Almost guaranteed ding at Columbia.

If you have serious SAD you probably should consider Duke or Berkeley


Do you think those schools at sticker are better options than going to Fordham for no debt?

I think neither are great ideas for biglaw. But 3.9+ and 167 is 90%+ acceptance at UChi on lsn iirc so it is something to think about if you were locked into a PI/Gov track and were planning on LRAP. You could get Duke with 75k scholarship and be warm and in sunshine. Plus low COL and a high BL placement

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:25 pm

chargers21 wrote:
dlutfy wrote:
chargers21 wrote:Fwiw, Ithaca weather is not that much worse than NYC and your numbers are capable of pulling a 120k scholarship to Cornell. I think you made a poor choice to blow off the interview.

Aside from that, if your app doesn't suck you have a good chance at paying at or near full price at one of NYU, Penn, or UChi even with your current numbers. Almost guaranteed ding at Columbia.

If you have serious SAD you probably should consider Duke or Berkeley


Do you think those schools at sticker are better options than going to Fordham for no debt?

I think neither are great ideas for biglaw. But 3.9+ and 167 is 90%+ acceptance at UChi on lsn iirc so it is something to think about if you were locked into a PI/Gov track and were planning on LRAP. You could get Duke with 75k scholarship and be warm and in sunshine. Plus low COL and a high BL placement


I got priority waitlisted at Duke so idk. Maybe my application sucked or something and I should bank on getting the 170 in February then reapply next cycle.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby HydroFlask666 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:17 pm

Did you write a Why Duke, OP? Seems like Duke has been waitlisting a lot of people they shouldn’t be waitlisting, maybe since it is so early in the cycle, I dunno.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:01 am

HydroFlask666 wrote:Did you write a Why Duke, OP? Seems like Duke has been waitlisting a lot of people they shouldn’t be waitlisting, maybe since it is so early in the cycle, I dunno.


Yeah I did. Having a bad cycle.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby bruiserwoods12 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:11 am

You're already in at Fordham, with a great scholarship offer! Seems like a great alternative if the Feb test doesn't go the way you'd like and you don't end up with offers at better schools.
Last edited by bruiserwoods12 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:40 am

bruiserwoods12 wrote:For what it's worth, I was a legal recruiter in NYC for a large corporate firm and we always interviewed Fordham alumni.


But what about OCI? And how many Fordham students are getting hired (not interviewed) by that firm?

If the OP didn't have numbers for a much, much better school, no one would be dead-set against them going to Fordham. But going to Fordham over a lower T13 with a decent scholarship is just absurd.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:34 am

1) Ppl are jumping on you bc you seem deadset on attending this cycle regardless of how February shakes out. If you get a 165 in Feb, will you take Fordham? If you're dedicated on sitting out this cycle, why not wait until June or Oct when you have more time to study?

2) "betting on myself to finish in the top 40%" is idiot talk for "i don't want to retake the LSAT" and TLS doesn't buy it.

3) we're not saying that Fordham is objectively bad, but for someone with a 3.97 it's a poor decision. there's no reason why you have to go to Fordham while someone with a worse GPA gets to go to Columbia/NYU. where's your confident "bet on myself" attitude on that one?

4) it sucks that you had a bad cycle but that doesn't mean you have to resign yourself to it. do better.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:04 pm

pancakes3 wrote:1) Ppl are jumping on you bc you seem deadset on attending this cycle regardless of how February shakes out. If you get a 165 in Feb, will you take Fordham? If you're dedicated on sitting out this cycle, why not wait until June or Oct when you have more time to study?

2) "betting on myself to finish in the top 40%" is idiot talk for "i don't want to retake the LSAT" and TLS doesn't buy it.

3) we're not saying that Fordham is objectively bad, but for someone with a 3.97 it's a poor decision. there's no reason why you have to go to Fordham while someone with a worse GPA gets to go to Columbia/NYU. where's your confident "bet on myself" attitude on that one?

4) it sucks that you had a bad cycle but that doesn't mean you have to resign yourself to it. do better.


1) Okay I get that, but that's not my intention.

2) I'm done trying to prove I'm retaking in February lol. I'm registered for the test and I'm studying everyday. I got a 174 on PT 83 without studying. Why would I not retake?

3) I never said I wasn't confident about the LSAT. But February is my 3rd take, so if I don't improve I'm not gonna sit out a cycle just for the pipedream 170. I've done every practice test more than once. I'm not lazy and I've tried my best with the LSAT. My diagnostic was in the 130s for petes sake.

4) I agree. I'm trying in February.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby dlutfy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:08 pm

bruiserwoods12 wrote:For what it's worth, I was a legal recruiter in NYC for a large corporate firm and we always interviewed Fordham alumni. I have friends currently at Fordham and they have BigLaw associateships lined up at top 10 NYC law firms. They did well, but they didn't kill themselves and have not found it to be insanely competitive to get BigLaw interviews. Most also chose Fordham for large scholarships.

Bottom line: You're already in at Fordham, with a great scholarship offer! Seems like a great alternative if the Feb test doesn't go the way you'd like and you don't end up with offers at better schools.


Thank you. I really can't believe people in this thread act like Fordham is an outside chance at biglaw. Fordham places great within NYC and has 14 associates at Cravath. For comparison, Cornell has 16. I know the associate number at the top firm isn't the end all be all, but it seems like Fordham grads have plenty of options.

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Re: Is Fordham a good law school?

Postby chargers21 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:12 pm

dlutfy wrote:
bruiserwoods12 wrote:For what it's worth, I was a legal recruiter in NYC for a large corporate firm and we always interviewed Fordham alumni. I have friends currently at Fordham and they have BigLaw associateships lined up at top 10 NYC law firms. They did well, but they didn't kill themselves and have not found it to be insanely competitive to get BigLaw interviews. Most also chose Fordham for large scholarships.

Bottom line: You're already in at Fordham, with a great scholarship offer! Seems like a great alternative if the Feb test doesn't go the way you'd like and you don't end up with offers at better schools.


Thank you. I really can't believe people in this thread act like Fordham is an outside chance at biglaw. Fordham places great within NYC and has 14 associates at Cravath. For comparison, Cornell has 16. I know the associate number at the top firm isn't the end all be all, but it seems like Fordham grads have plenty of options.

Fyi, Fordham is over twice the size of Cornell.



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