Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

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RSolano

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Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby RSolano » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:04 pm

Do the same YP trends apply to URMs?

icechicken

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Re: Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby icechicken » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:35 pm

Let's look at an illustrative sample:

Image

It looks like Penn and UVA shy away from applicants with "presumptive HYS admit" numbers to some extent. (They seem smart about when to do it, too, since every single one of those waitlists who reported their ultimate destination ended up at one of the top 3.) That said, yield-protection isn't a huge force in law-school admissions to begin with, and the incentives for schools to do it to URMs are weaker (because the population we're talking about is, well, a minority, and therefore has a smaller effect on overall acceptance and yield rates). Writing a coherent Why X is usually sufficient to avoid YP and I can't think of a reason URMs would be different in that regard.

RSolano

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Re: Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby RSolano » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:37 pm

icechicken wrote:Let's look at an illustrative sample:

Image

It looks like Penn and UVA shy away from applicants with "presumptive HYS admit" numbers to some extent. (They seem smart about when to do it, too, since every single one of those waitlists who reported their ultimate destination ended up at one of the top 3.) That said, yield-protection isn't a huge force in law-school admissions to begin with, and the incentives for schools to do it to URMs are weaker (because the population we're talking about is, well, a minority, and therefore has a smaller effect on overall acceptance and yield rates). Writing a coherent Why X is usually sufficient to avoid YP and I can't think of a reason to suppose URMs would be different in that regard.



Very helpful! Thank you! How important would you say why X statements are? I'm a URM AA with a 3.6 and 175

icechicken

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Re: Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby icechicken » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:55 pm

With those numbers I would write one for every single non-HYS school that you want to attend. Even at CCN, which don't yield protect, it might boost your full-ride chances, and IMO that's well worth the ~30 minutes it takes to write a love note about Law & Economics or whatever.

You'll probably still have a great cycle in any case. But if you really want UPenn or whatever, don't trust them to figure it out on their own.

RSolano

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Re: Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby RSolano » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:00 pm

icechicken wrote:With those numbers I would write one for every single non-HYS school that you want to attend. Even at CCN, which don't yield protect, it might boost your full-ride chances, and IMO that's well worth the ~30 minutes it takes to write a love note about Law & Economics or whatever.

You'll probably still have a great cycle in any case. But if you really want UPenn or whatever, don't trust them to figure it out on their own.



Thanks, I appreciate the help! I didn't know that ccn didn't YP. The full ride idea is interesting because I thought they give full rides as incentives to keep students from choosing hys instead. So might showing interest through a why X letter actually make them less worried that they have to woo you with money?

icechicken

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Re: Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby icechicken » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:41 am

RSolano wrote:I didn't know that ccn didn't YP.


There's occassionaly some argument about this, but the empirical data we have (e.g. the chart above) as well as common sense (CCN are appealing enough options that they can reliably buy some HYS-caliber applicants with enough scholarship money, which has a bigger positive effect on US News metrics than yield protection does) imply that it's the case.

RSolano wrote:The full ride idea is interesting because I thought they give full rides as incentives to keep students from choosing hys instead. So might showing interest through a why X letter actually make them less worried that they have to woo you with money?


It cuts both ways - they don't want to tie that money up on people who seem likely to end up elsewhere. A well-tuned Why X (for the purposes of yield protection) doesn't say "I'm definitely coming if you'll take me" but "I'm attainable if I get the right offer, because I'm not just applying to [school] as a safety - it's a serious contender for me".

Obama

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Re: Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby Obama » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:16 pm

Your scores are pretty good.

As for YP for URMs, it does happen, but not always by rejecting them. There’s soft YP — they don’t reject you but waitlist you or just take forever to give you any answer at all. In the meantime you get in somewhere better (or, if we’re talking about Yale or Stanford, you get into an equally good or better school that is big enough for you to make almost no impact on their USNWR numbers — aka Harvard) and then withdraw from the schools that are soft yield protecting by waitlisting or just not answering in a timely manner.

Obviously, the schools I am referring to are Yale, Stanford, U Chicago and Penn.

Obama

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Re: Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby Obama » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:20 pm

But seriously with a 3.5 or 3.6 and 17x, enjoy getting in almost everywhere. If your GPA were a 3.3 or 3.4 and/or your LSAT score was 165+ but <170, your concern about traditional YP (rejection) would be valid. For you though, there’s little to be concerned about. Just proofread (on physical paper) your statements and resume — only crappy (typo-ridden or otherwise bad) statements or resumes could really hurt you at this point.

RSolano

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Re: Do URMs get YP'd the same as other applicants?

Postby RSolano » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:15 pm

Obama wrote:Your scores are pretty good.

As for YP for URMs, it does happen, but not always by rejecting them. There’s soft YP — they don’t reject you but waitlist you or just take forever to give you any answer at all. In the meantime you get in somewhere better (or, if we’re talking about Yale or Stanford, you get into an equally good or better school that is big enough for you to make almost no impact on their USNWR numbers — aka Harvard) and then withdraw from the schools that are soft yield protecting by waitlisting or just not answering in a timely manner.

Obviously, the schools I am referring to are Yale, Stanford, U Chicago and Penn.


Thats helpful to know- thank you!



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