Feeling ghosted by most top law schools

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
leoCane
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: Feeling ghosted by most top law schools

Postby leoCane » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:58 am

cdotson2 wrote:
leoCane wrote:
cdotson2 wrote:
leoCane wrote:
Relax. I agree with most of what you said, but you are mischaracterizing what my point was in providing my own case, which was to illustrate that LSAT/GPA is not everything. I'm sure that most can agree with that. As for OP's case, I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that OP has a possibility with Vandy and UT (no matter how slight) given the stats and if other components of app are above average compared to others. Like I said, my case is to illustrate that to say the rest of your app does not matter is just not true. Never assessed OP's chances of getting in either, just wished OP luck and having optimism for their sake; don't see anything wrong with that.


the problem with your argument is that you are an URM, everyone on TLS agrees being an URM affects your outcomes outside just the numbers. You experience cannot be extrapolated to the OP because they are not an URM. Therefore your experience adds little value for the OP or the statement that things in general other than numbers have that big of an affect on outcomes.


Like I've said before, not comparing my case to OP, but was responding to a previous post. I used my case to point the obvious; other aspects of app matter.

As I said in my reply your case does not show the point you are trying to prove. URM is an accepted caveat to the general rule. your case does not tell us about other parts of the application.


I know being a URM provides a huge advantage in admissions. But, you must agree that if other parts of your app are not above average (whether it be LoRs, work experience, PS, etc.), you will most likely not get (even as a URM) into any t14 with a score that is slightly below OP's? We can agree to disagree about my case helping or not, but my point is other parts of your app matter and while obvious, we can both agree with that.
Last edited by leoCane on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
UVA2B
Posts: 3110
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Feeling ghosted by most top law schools

Postby UVA2B » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:58 am

leoCane wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
leoCane wrote:Relax. I agree with most of what you said, but you are mischaracterizing what my point was in providing my own case, which was to illustrate that LSAT/GPA is not everything. I'm sure that most can agree with that. As for OP's case, I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that OP has a possibility with Vandy and UT (no matter how slight) given the stats and if other components of app are above average compared to others. Like I said, my case is to illustrate that to say the rest of your app does not matter is just not true. Never assessed OP's chances of getting in either, just wished OP luck and having optimism for their sake; don't see anything wrong with that.


I try not to actively argue with 0Ls about why they're mistaken, so I'll hold off here. I appreciate you wanting to give the OP hope, and you want them to remain optimistic, even if it's terribly misguided. Your contextless point is a good one, which is that other things will be considered in determining their admissions chances. I provided that context that needs to be understood for any 0L reading it.

Best of luck with the rest of your admissions cycle.


Why is remaining optimistic in their case misguided? The chart provided by Platopus shows OP having 46% at UT and 22% at Vandy; it's not completely unreasonable to have a little hope. Also, y contextless point was a response to someone saying before that other aspects of the app don't matter. While obvious, I felt obligated to say otherwise.

Regardless, thanks for wishing me luck. Wish you luck with your endeavors as well.


You're new here, so this is fair. Optimism isn't in and of itself a bad thing, because people pull rabbits out of hats regularly in admissions (more below on what this really means). The data we use is self-supplied data that we simultaneously trust while we can't verify. But when we are talking about managing expectations for people asking for advice, it's paramount the TLS community give advice based on what is most likely to happen, not what is possible to happen, unless there is good reason to suggest what is possible to happen is remotely likely. Of course the OP could punch above their weight for reasons already mentioned (political asylum is probably a huge relative-to-URM boost in this environment, IIRC), but the ultimate value here is trying to give fellow members of the community the most accurate advice, not necessarily the most optimistic advice. Sometimes they align, but often they don't. We can't predict whether OP will be in the coin flip at UT or Vandy with any certainty, so while it's true they may sneak into UT or Vandy at full price, that may not be the best advice. This particular applicant may have LSAT points left on the table that would improve their lot in admissions, and depending on what they want with a law degree, retaking the LSAT may be their best bet. We don't know that most of the time from the outset. But even if we don't give the tired "retake" advice, there is still important things to consider, like whether or not the person seeking advice has other things they should consider. You wanted to provide the optimist POV, which isn't wrong, but it might create a cognitive dissidence if the community creates that dissidence. As it stands, the OP is unlikely to get what they want, however broadly we define that (I have a serious personal issue with treating admissions in law school as an end goal, but I accept that's more the norm). They have some control over that, but it involves doing things that aren't already on their application.

I guess my most succinct explanation of what optimism should be like in admissions is this: assume you're the rule, not the exception, and even if you're the exception, do you actually want to be?

leoCane
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: Feeling ghosted by most top law schools

Postby leoCane » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:02 am

UVA2B wrote:
leoCane wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
leoCane wrote:Relax. I agree with most of what you said, but you are mischaracterizing what my point was in providing my own case, which was to illustrate that LSAT/GPA is not everything. I'm sure that most can agree with that. As for OP's case, I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that OP has a possibility with Vandy and UT (no matter how slight) given the stats and if other components of app are above average compared to others. Like I said, my case is to illustrate that to say the rest of your app does not matter is just not true. Never assessed OP's chances of getting in either, just wished OP luck and having optimism for their sake; don't see anything wrong with that.


I try not to actively argue with 0Ls about why they're mistaken, so I'll hold off here. I appreciate you wanting to give the OP hope, and you want them to remain optimistic, even if it's terribly misguided. Your contextless point is a good one, which is that other things will be considered in determining their admissions chances. I provided that context that needs to be understood for any 0L reading it.

Best of luck with the rest of your admissions cycle.


Why is remaining optimistic in their case misguided? The chart provided by Platopus shows OP having 46% at UT and 22% at Vandy; it's not completely unreasonable to have a little hope. Also, y contextless point was a response to someone saying before that other aspects of the app don't matter. While obvious, I felt obligated to say otherwise.

Regardless, thanks for wishing me luck. Wish you luck with your endeavors as well.


You're new here, so this is fair. Optimism isn't in and of itself a bad thing, because people pull rabbits out of hats regularly in admissions (more below on what this really means). The data we use is self-supplied data that we simultaneously trust while we can't verify. But when we are talking about managing expectations for people asking for advice, it's paramount the TLS community give advice based on what is most likely to happen, not what is possible to happen, unless there is good reason to suggest what is possible to happen is remotely likely. Of course the OP could punch above their weight for reasons already mentioned (political asylum is probably a huge relative-to-URM boost in this environment, IIRC), but the ultimate value here is trying to give fellow members of the community the most accurate advice, not necessarily the most optimistic advice. Sometimes they align, but often they don't. We can't predict whether OP will be in the coin flip at UT or Vandy with any certainty, so while it's true they may sneak into UT or Vandy at full price, that may not be the best advice. This particular applicant may have LSAT points left on the table that would improve their lot in admissions, and depending on what they want with a law degree, retaking the LSAT may be their best bet. We don't know that most of the time from the outset. But even if we don't give the tired "retake" advice, there is still important things to consider, like whether or not the person seeking advice has other things they should consider. You wanted to provide the optimist POV, which isn't wrong, but it might create a cognitive dissidence if the community creates that dissidence. As it stands, the OP is unlikely to get what they want, however broadly we define that (I have a serious personal issue with treating admissions in law school as an end goal, but I accept that's more the norm). They have some control over that, but it involves doing things that aren't already on their application.

I guess my most succinct explanation of what optimism should be like in admissions is this: assume you're the rule, not the exception, and even if you're the exception, do you actually want to be?


Completely agree with everything you said. OP has already applied though and is awaiting for response; thought no harm done with a little positivity. Wasn't trying to give false hope either, as I know that OP's chances are slim. Will keep in mind what you've said for future posts.

User avatar
PeanutsNJam
Posts: 4504
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: Feeling ghosted by most top law schools

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:23 am

leoCane wrote:I know being a URM provides a huge advantage in admissions. But, you must agree that if other parts of your app are not above average (whether it be LoRs, work experience, PS, etc.), you will most likely not get (even as a URM) into any t14 with a score that is slightly below OP's? We can agree to disagree about my case helping or not, but my point is other parts of your app matter and while obvious, we can both agree with that.


The statements that "nothing else matters other than numbers and URM status" is hyperbole. Obviously, the rest of your application gets read. But those things matter at the margins. If your numbers/URM status put you in the "sure admit" category, the rest of your materials need only pass minimum requirements. If your numbers/URM status put you in the "maybe" category, the rest of your materials carry far more weight in tipping the scale. If your numbers/URM status put you in the "no way" category, the rest of your materials are meaningless.

OP is somewhere south of "maybe" and north of "no way" based on numbers alone. Is it possible that the rest of OP's application carries enough wait for an acceptance? Sure, that's possible. As you can see from the LST chart, some people got in with those numbers. Maybe they were vets, maybe they had multiple PhDs, who knows. But it's a steep uphill climb, and to answer OP's question, having a delayed response is normal in that situation.

Keilz
Posts: 2304
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:35 am

Re: Feeling ghosted by most top law schools

Postby Keilz » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:29 pm

I applied to most of my schools in very early October, and didn't hear an initial response from two schools (incl the one I'm at now) until literally the last week of April. you're just going to have to sit it out.

User avatar
KENYADIGG1T
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Feeling ghosted by most top law schools

Postby KENYADIGG1T » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:53 pm

Feeling ghosted


OP get out of my love life!




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests