Old Fart Support Group please

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Piggy11
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Piggy11 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:45 pm

coskigirl wrote:In at my #1 school with a full scholarship.

That's awesome! Congratulations!

coskigirl
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby coskigirl » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:57 pm

DorkothyParker wrote:
coskigirl wrote:In at my #1 school with a full scholarship.


Way to go coskigirl! You rock, Rock.

Please let me know what I need to sacrifice to have that level of favor with the gods!


I wish I could give you a solid answer. Crossing my fingers for you!

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Bush v. Gorgeous
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Bush v. Gorgeous » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:34 pm

Piggy11 wrote:
coskigirl wrote:In at my #1 school with a full scholarship.

That's awesome! Congratulations!


Well done!!!!

coskigirl
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby coskigirl » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:37 am

New stress. My acceptance letter indicated the name of my scholarship and the dollar amount of my award for the first year, renewable at the same amount in subsequent semesters provided I maintain a 3.0. But, the $ amount doesn't match the amount their website lists that scholarship as being. Adding to the confusion is that I will attend part-time (my acceptance letter confirms that is the program I have been accepted into) and the award amount is closer to but doesn't exactly match what the expected scholarship is for full-time. And while I am able to log into their student portal my award letter hasn't been processed into it yet. ARGH!

In the long run, I'll likely be able to get most if not all of the difference covered by my company if necessary but I JUST WANT TO KNOW!!!

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wmbuff
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby wmbuff » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:27 am

coskigirl wrote:New stress. My acceptance letter indicated the name of my scholarship and the dollar amount of my award for the first year, renewable at the same amount in subsequent semesters provided I maintain a 3.0. But, the $ amount doesn't match the amount their website lists that scholarship as being. Adding to the confusion is that I will attend part-time (my acceptance letter confirms that is the program I have been accepted into) and the award amount is closer to but doesn't exactly match what the expected scholarship is for full-time. And while I am able to log into their student portal my award letter hasn't been processed into it yet. ARGH!

In the long run, I'll likely be able to get most if not all of the difference covered by my company if necessary but I JUST WANT TO KNOW!!!


You're likely getting a different $ amount because you're enrolling part-time. I'd be concerned about the stips, personally.

cavalier1138
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:58 am

wmbuff wrote:
coskigirl wrote:New stress. My acceptance letter indicated the name of my scholarship and the dollar amount of my award for the first year, renewable at the same amount in subsequent semesters provided I maintain a 3.0. But, the $ amount doesn't match the amount their website lists that scholarship as being. Adding to the confusion is that I will attend part-time (my acceptance letter confirms that is the program I have been accepted into) and the award amount is closer to but doesn't exactly match what the expected scholarship is for full-time. And while I am able to log into their student portal my award letter hasn't been processed into it yet. ARGH!

In the long run, I'll likely be able to get most if not all of the difference covered by my company if necessary but I JUST WANT TO KNOW!!!


You're likely getting a different $ amount because you're enrolling part-time. I'd be concerned about the stips, personally.


Yeah, get them to drop those stips. No legitimate school places stipulations on scholarships.

coskigirl
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby coskigirl » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:49 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
wmbuff wrote:
coskigirl wrote:New stress. My acceptance letter indicated the name of my scholarship and the dollar amount of my award for the first year, renewable at the same amount in subsequent semesters provided I maintain a 3.0. But, the $ amount doesn't match the amount their website lists that scholarship as being. Adding to the confusion is that I will attend part-time (my acceptance letter confirms that is the program I have been accepted into) and the award amount is closer to but doesn't exactly match what the expected scholarship is for full-time. And while I am able to log into their student portal my award letter hasn't been processed into it yet. ARGH!

In the long run, I'll likely be able to get most if not all of the difference covered by my company if necessary but I JUST WANT TO KNOW!!!


You're likely getting a different $ amount because you're enrolling part-time. I'd be concerned about the stips, personally.


Yeah, get them to drop those stips. No legitimate school places stipulations on scholarships.


But the different amount I'm showing is MORE than both the full and part time numbers on the website.

I will have similar stipulations on any employer assistance and even in my worst school semesters I never dropped below that for a GPA so I'm not really concerned about that. Given that my lsat/gpa are above their 75%/median they grade on a curve with the median grade being a 3.0, I should be leading the pack. Frankly, if I'm not then there will be other thought processes to deal with. In addition, given that it's merit based it is completely reasonable to have a gpa stipulation on it. That being said, looking at their scholarship retention rates, more than 78% of students in the 3 cycles have retained their scholarship. The other school I've applied to has a significantly worse retention rate.

My other alternatives would involve a move to another state, away from my support network, which could make doing school and work even more challenging. While not impossible, moving is not cheap nor stress free. In addition, I'd either have to sell my home or rent it and pay someone to manage the rental. And then I would be moving back after school as I have no intention of being away from my state for longer than necessary. That also poses employment challenges as Denver/Boulder is a small legal community. I plan to be employed by my current employer post-graduation but things do change.

In the long run, I have to weigh the risk vs. reward. I can find no evidence that the school ever drops it's gpa stipulation and it is the same across the board for merit scholarships.

cavalier1138
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:25 pm

coskigirl wrote:I will have similar stipulations on any employer assistance and even in my worst school semesters I never dropped below that for a GPA so I'm not really concerned about that. Given that my lsat/gpa are above their 75%/median they grade on a curve with the median grade being a 3.0, I should be leading the pack. Frankly, if I'm not then there will be other thought processes to deal with. In addition, given that it's merit based it is completely reasonable to have a gpa stipulation on it. That being said, looking at their scholarship retention rates, more than 78% of students in the 3 cycles have retained their scholarship. The other school I've applied to has a significantly worse retention rate.

My other alternatives would involve a move to another state, away from my support network, which could make doing school and work even more challenging. While not impossible, moving is not cheap nor stress free. In addition, I'd either have to sell my home or rent it and pay someone to manage the rental. And then I would be moving back after school as I have no intention of being away from my state for longer than necessary. That also poses employment challenges as Denver/Boulder is a small legal community. I plan to be employed by my current employer post-graduation but things do change.

In the long run, I have to weigh the risk vs. reward. I can find no evidence that the school ever drops it's gpa stipulation and it is the same across the board for merit scholarships.


A few general things to be aware of (since it's difficult to be more specific without knowing the school):

Most of your classmates will have never slipped below a 3.0. That's irrelevant for law school, because you're going to be on a mandatory curve. If 3.0 is the median, half the class will have to be below that. This is why conditional scholarships are a bullshit practice. It's even more concerning that your employer assistance hinges on your GPA staying above the same mark. Given that, you're taking a pretty big risk with your finances and your future job prospects.

On a similar note, the fact that you were above the 75th/median is fine, but that doesn't guarantee that you're going to outperform your classmates. It does indicate that you can probably get in to a better school than your current option, and I don't understand why you wouldn't shoot for Colorado (given your stated market), where they do not run the scam of conditional scholarships.

Conditional scholarships are not a standard practice at any decent school. They are a practice by predatory operations that bank on luring in students with a stipulation those students are totally confident they can meet, then getting more tuition out of those students under the guise of having "high standards." Read this thread for what happens when things don't work out.

You don't have to move. Colorado has at least one decent school that doesn't engage in this practice. And you can always tell a school to drop stipulations on scholarships. Law school isn't going anywhere. You're old enough to know what the consequences could be if you rush a bad decision like this.
Last edited by cavalier1138 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

coskigirl
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby coskigirl » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:24 pm

Colorado doesn't have a part-time program nor does it allow a student to work more than 20 hours a week. I'm not willing to walk away from a job that pays me more than Colorado's mean post-graduation salary to go to a school then just have to start from fresh in the employment world. I literally only have to cover my tuition, fees, and books via scholarship/employer assistance. All of my living expenses are more than covered by my salary.

I've looked at all of this. I'm not going in blind. I have a large number of trusted legal advisors in the Colorado legal community and at my company that I am working with to make these decisions. The good news is I'm the only one responsible for my decision. I've done pretty damn well for myself so far so I trust I will continue to evaluate my options in a way that is likely to produce a good outcome for myself.

cavalier1138
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:31 pm

coskigirl wrote:Colorado doesn't have a part-time program nor does it allow a student to work more than 20 hours a week. I'm not willing to walk away from a job that pays me more than Colorado's mean post-graduation salary to go to a school then just have to start from fresh in the employment world. I literally only have to cover my tuition, fees, and books via scholarship/employer assistance. All of my living expenses are more than covered by my salary.

I've looked at all of this. I'm not going in blind. I have a large number of trusted legal advisors in the Colorado legal community and at my company that I am working with to make these decisions. The good news is I'm the only one responsible for my decision. I've done pretty damn well for myself so far so I trust I will continue to evaluate my options in a way that is likely to produce a good outcome for myself.


Then best of luck to you. I genuinely hope that I'm wrong and that you don't end up getting horribly, horribly screwed over by a predatory system. But as you said, you're responsible for your decision.

CALaw717
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby CALaw717 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:39 am

coskigirl wrote:Yep, old fart here. From what I know I'm one of the oldest on TLS applying this cycle. Hello fuckit forties.

My numbers aren't what some of yours are but I've got a lot going for me. Not the least of which is my company will pay a portion of my costs and write in higher than market raises while I'm in school to account for the additional knowledge and skills gained through school. Oh, and an all but guaranteed position as an attorney upon graduation and bar passage. But I really just want to see that acceptance and scholly info from my #1. I'm convinced that it will come in while I'm on an 11 hour flight from London to San Francisco tomorrow.


You probably already included it in your personal essay, but I'd definitely include a note about a guaranteed JD-required position at your current company after graduation. Part of each school's ranking is based on post-graduation employment, so if an incoming student has a nearly guaranteed post-grad job, that may give you a slight notch. Aside from that and more in line with this group's comments in general, I'm an older 1L at UC Hastings and for a f/t day program, we have a huge number of returning professionals. My class of about 325 students has approx. 40 students 30yo+. The school even set up an orientation week luncheon for any incoming 1Ls 28yo+ and the room was completely packed. While not a top 20 school, Hastings has a great regional reputation and should be a serious consideration for anyone who's a returning professional, open to working in CA, and doesn't want to be completely surrounded by a bunch of 23yos (and of course one who doesn't get into a top 20 school). Hastings also doesn't seem to discriminate with their scholarship offers based on age, and 30+ yos can still get (and possibly negotiate higher) pretty significant scholarships.

coskigirl
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby coskigirl » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:11 pm

CALaw717 wrote:
coskigirl wrote:Yep, old fart here. From what I know I'm one of the oldest on TLS applying this cycle. Hello fuckit forties.

My numbers aren't what some of yours are but I've got a lot going for me. Not the least of which is my company will pay a portion of my costs and write in higher than market raises while I'm in school to account for the additional knowledge and skills gained through school. Oh, and an all but guaranteed position as an attorney upon graduation and bar passage. But I really just want to see that acceptance and scholly info from my #1. I'm convinced that it will come in while I'm on an 11 hour flight from London to San Francisco tomorrow.


You probably already included it in your personal essay, but I'd definitely include a note about a guaranteed JD-required position at your current company after graduation. Part of each school's ranking is based on post-graduation employment, so if an incoming student has a nearly guaranteed post-grad job, that may give you a slight notch. Aside from that and more in line with this group's comments in general, I'm an older 1L at UC Hastings and for a f/t day program, we have a huge number of returning professionals. My class of about 325 students has approx. 40 students 30yo+. The school even set up an orientation week luncheon for any incoming 1Ls 28yo+ and the room was completely packed. While not a top 20 school, Hastings has a great regional reputation and should be a serious consideration for anyone who's a returning professional, open to working in CA, and doesn't want to be completely surrounded by a bunch of 23yos (and of course one who doesn't get into a top 20 school). Hastings also doesn't seem to discriminate with their scholarship offers based on age, and 30+ yos can still get (and possibly negotiate higher) pretty significant scholarships.


My current boss (in-house counsel at my company) included that fact in his letter of recommendation which was probably weighted more strongly than me saying it. My former boss who wrote my othe LOR also indicated she would higher as an attorney as well. I’ll likely never know what the admissions committee liked about my application package but whatever it is I am in with a Provost’s scholarship.

sdanielle
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby sdanielle » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:21 pm

Old fartress here!
39 years old, two children ages 4 and 7..husband.

I feel so overwhelmed with this process and my anxiety is at an all time high. Glad I am not alone here!

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wmbuff
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby wmbuff » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:38 pm

sdanielle wrote:Old fartress here!
39 years old, two children ages 4 and 7..husband.

I feel so overwhelmed with this process and my anxiety is at an all time high. Glad I am not alone here!


Are you able to relocate, or only applying to a geographically limited set of schools?

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DorkothyParker
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby DorkothyParker » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:21 pm

sdanielle wrote:Old fartress here!
39 years old, two children ages 4 and 7..husband.

I feel so overwhelmed with this process and my anxiety is at an all time high. Glad I am not alone here!


I am a certified mediator if you just need to vent and have someone listen/validate you. Seriously. Hahaha.
Where are you applying to?

seanbodonovan
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby seanbodonovan » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:03 pm

I don't know if 28 counts as an old fart, but I'm married with 3 kids and a mortgage so I'll take all the support I can get.

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Bush v. Gorgeous
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Bush v. Gorgeous » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:45 am

seanbodonovan wrote:I don't know if 28 counts as an old fart, but I'm married with 3 kids and a mortgage so I'll take all the support I can get.


I think old fartedness is a state of mind. Welcome!

How’s everyone doing, cycle-wise? I’ve heard back from 3/15 but really waiting for my top choices. I’ve never looked forward to late January so much in my life.

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wmbuff
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby wmbuff » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:24 am

Bush v. Gorgeous wrote:
seanbodonovan wrote:I don't know if 28 counts as an old fart, but I'm married with 3 kids and a mortgage so I'll take all the support I can get.


I think old fartedness is a state of mind. Welcome!

How’s everyone doing, cycle-wise? I’ve heard back from 3/15 but really waiting for my top choices. I’ve never looked forward to late January so much in my life.


I'm also 3/15, with one decent scholarship offer so far. Expecting another decision this week, based on previous cycle data, and there are a couple more that could come at any time. Hoping for a scholarship email from Wash U soon as well. Given that I'm a super splitter, I can't expect quick decisions on the top end of my application pool, so I'm prepared to wait a while.

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Bush v. Gorgeous
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Bush v. Gorgeous » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:59 am

It's interesting that you mention waiting as a splitter. I honestly sometimes feel like with some schools we get put on the 'later' shelf just as nontraditional applicants. But maybe it's too soon to make that assessment. Congrats on getting scholarship $$ - off to an amazing start. I'm 3/3 on mine but no $$ talk yet.

Piggy11
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Piggy11 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:52 am

Not heard back from anybody yet, but I only applied to 5 schools and submitted early November, so it's still very early.
I was happy that my HLS application finally went complete yesterday.

seanbodonovan
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby seanbodonovan » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:01 am

Bush v. Gorgeous wrote:
seanbodonovan wrote:I don't know if 28 counts as an old fart, but I'm married with 3 kids and a mortgage so I'll take all the support I can get.


I think old fartedness is a state of mind. Welcome!

How’s everyone doing, cycle-wise? I’ve heard back from 3/15 but really waiting for my top choices. I’ve never looked forward to late January so much in my life.


I've heard back from 4/8, and I'm in at all of them with $$ at two so far. I'm right there with you on looking forward to late January, because from what I can tell that is when my top choice typically starts making decisions.

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DorkothyParker
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby DorkothyParker » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:24 pm

I am 0/2. I am only planning to apply to 3 schools (I circled the drain on a few). I am very poor so hoping to get a check from my moonlight gig with the county soon, but you know how they are.
One application was in review, set up an interview, did interview 11/13, and now application is sitting back in Complete (not in review).

OMG I am dead.

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Bush v. Gorgeous
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Bush v. Gorgeous » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:19 am

DorkothyParker wrote:I am 0/2. I am only planning to apply to 3 schools (I circled the drain on a few). I am very poor so hoping to get a check from my moonlight gig with the county soon, but you know how they are.
One application was in review, set up an interview, did interview 11/13, and now application is sitting back in Complete (not in review).

OMG I am dead.


It is SO early. I also feel moments of panic - I think we all do...but really, there is a LOT of time. In a perfect world we would all get answers back right away, but I think age makes that unlikely. But that doesn't mean the end result won't be amazing! Hang in there.

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wmbuff
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby wmbuff » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:49 am

Bush v. Gorgeous wrote:
DorkothyParker wrote:I am 0/2. I am only planning to apply to 3 schools (I circled the drain on a few). I am very poor so hoping to get a check from my moonlight gig with the county soon, but you know how they are.
One application was in review, set up an interview, did interview 11/13, and now application is sitting back in Complete (not in review).

OMG I am dead.


It is SO early. I also feel moments of panic - I think we all do...but really, there is a LOT of time. In a perfect world we would all get answers back right away, but I think age makes that unlikely. But that doesn't mean the end result won't be amazing! Hang in there.


I'm not really sure there's a non-traditional student delay. With Wash U, I was admitted the same day as urmlaw17, who was also a super splitter, and applied the day after me. With ASU and my state school, I got in within the week after applying on a Monday.

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Bush v. Gorgeous
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Bush v. Gorgeous » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:17 am

wmbuff wrote:I'm not really sure there's a non-traditional student delay. With Wash U, I was admitted the same day as urmlaw17, who was also a super splitter, and applied the day after me. With ASU and my state school, I got in within the week after applying on a Monday.


I 110% want you to be right. I still think I'm seeing it at certain schools, but of course will never be able to substantiate the hunch.




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