ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

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icechicken
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby icechicken » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:42 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:The methodology will necessarily have to change. If the LSAT isn't the only required test, the methodology has to shift to account for the other (GRE). Now, if no exam is necessary, then the methodology will shift even more, probably by dropping the LSAT from ranking methodology totally. You cant consistently rate a variable that is not consistent across all schools.


Plenty of decent-to-great undergraduate programs don't require any sort of admissions test, and almost all will take either the SAT or ACT, but US News still weighs test scores at 8.125% for their college rankings. For the business-school ranking (b-schools are broadly GMAT+GRE nowadays, and I agree with others in this thread that T1 law schools are probably headed for a similar norm), test scores are 16.25% of the USN score. The importance of the MCAT in the med-school methodology is comparable (9.75% or 13% depending on school model), and they kept using it even as the MCAT changed formats two years ago. They currently weigh LSAT/GRE at 12.5% for the law-school rankings, which is right in the same territory.

Long story short, US News seems to like standardized tests, and it's not like the LSAT is on some abnormally high perch at the moment. I strongly doubt that they will eliminate the standardized-test component entirely. Maybe they knock its weight down to 10%, which would put it exactly on par with GPA, or even something like 8%? That might shake up the rankings a little (which would be the main reason for US News to do it), but it probably wouldn't have a massive impact on admissions policies because LSAT/GRE would still be an important theatre in the rankings war.

DKilloranPowerScore
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby DKilloranPowerScore » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Jack_Kelly wrote:How will the GRE be weighted by admissions? Surely quant shouldn't be given the same weight as verbal.


I asked Harvard this exact question, and they walked an interesting line. She said that all GRE score components would be considered and would be looked at, but stopped short of saying they'd be weighted equally. However, given that US News is saying they'll weight GRE percentiles equal to LSAT (at least that's what they are saying for now), I'd bet that a low quant score is going to be a problem.

dabigchina
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby dabigchina » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:47 pm

Oh good, just what we needed. More arbitrary law school admissions.

GODstaps GODzingis
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby GODstaps GODzingis » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:35 pm

I think they're going towards the MBA admissions model. Stuff like ECs, work experience, undergrad prestige/major may be weighed a lot more. Not sure what will happen to GPA weight, top MBA programs have lower average GPAs than you'd imagine.

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icechicken
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby icechicken » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:04 pm

GODstaps GODzingis wrote:I think they're going towards the MBA admissions model. Stuff like ECs, work experience, undergrad prestige/major may be weighed a lot more. Not sure what will happen to GPA weight, top MBA programs have lower average GPAs than you'd imagine.


This doesn't make sense to me.

MBA programs have a good reason to care about work experience (or proxies like extracurriculars and volunteering): success in business before grad school is a pretty good predictor of success in business after grad school. The same can't be said about law.

I also don't see why the importance of absolute GPA would be diminished in favor of things like undergraduate pedigree and major. A straight-A linguistics major at MIT and a straight-A business major at Sewanee have something in common that their classmates with 3.0s don't, and law schools want it. (Never mind the importance of uGPA medians, or the fact that law schools take pride in recruiting from a wide array of undergraduate institutions.)

AJordan
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby AJordan » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:15 am

Things are all still muddled (if you're a law school) or ameliorated (if you're an applicant) by the fact that there just aren't law school applicants to be had. There's no guarantee that any sort of correlation between an easier testing process and a significantly increase application numbers exists. Maybe MBA app numbers are higher because it's easier to get a job with an MBA? I'm going to use this analogy when tutoring causation/correlation tonight. Maybe in 3-5 years this will show some significant change, but unless the legal market drastically improves I just can't see people lining up in greater numbers to spend this kind of money. The word is out and public opinion is not moved so quickly.

juicetrain76
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby juicetrain76 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:42 pm

So as a hopeful sub 3.0 splitter, the greater amount of applicants should strongly concern me, right? I don't have anything but a practice LSAT score yet but have been studying hard for the June '18 exam. I feel like the consequences of this are unclear, but I also have a strong sense that I'm fucked for trying to get into a T1 school.

Can someone confirm if I'm fucked? Should I call the schools I was planning on applying to and see how they plan on taking tests/weighting them?

goldenbear2020
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby goldenbear2020 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:48 pm

AJordan wrote:Things are all still muddled (if you're a law school) or ameliorated (if you're an applicant) by the fact that there just aren't law school applicants to be had. There's no guarantee that any sort of correlation between an easier testing process and a significantly increase application numbers exists.

The total applicant pool may not increase, but each individual law school may well receive more applications because each applicant can cast a wider net.

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icechicken
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Re: ABA decides that each school can use whatever test, or no test, they want for admissions

Postby icechicken » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:07 pm

goldenbear2020 wrote:
AJordan wrote:Things are all still muddled (if you're a law school) or ameliorated (if you're an applicant) by the fact that there just aren't law school applicants to be had. There's no guarantee that any sort of correlation between an easier testing process and a significantly increase application numbers exists.

The total applicant pool may not increase, but each individual law school may well receive more applications because each applicant can cast a wider net.


FWIW, I don't think that's going to happen. The main bottlenecks for most people are application fees and the time needed to write supplemental essays, and I don't see how GRE acceptance helps with those (or at all).

But, if you're right, that might actually make things more difficult for law schools, because increasing the number of (viable) applications per applicant will reduce yield for almost everyone. Low yield sucks. Among other things, it makes it a lot harder to budget scholarship offers and to maintain diversity.




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