Major Splitter: where should I apply?

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Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:33 am

Hi all,

I'm about 10 years out of undergrad (where I screwed myself over big time), and I'm looking to apply to law school.

Here's the thing: My most resent LSAT was a 178. I have 10+ years of work experience in politics and philanthropy. I have killer recommendations, have taken some upper level classes since undergrad (non-credit) and received A's in all of them (I want to prove that I've grown since undergrad). I've traveled extensively on my own and have picked up new hobbies and have been an active volunteer in my community. Needless to say, I am not the idiot who received a 2.3 in undergrad (it hurts me to type that out). I know that, but law school admissions likely won't. I cringe when I think about how miserable I was in undergrad -- working 80 hours a week as editor of the student paper, taking six classes, dealing with untreated health problems, and the loss of a close friend. I'm not saying this is an excuse, but if I could go back and slap myself across the face so I wouldn't have to be in this situation, I would. At the time, I had ZERO goals of grad or law school, and my journalksm professors told me "don't stress about your GPA -- pass your classes and gain experience."

So here's my thing. I would love to get into a t14... or at least at t25. I know this is unlikely. Trust me, I know, and I hate it. I hate who I was ten years ago. I heard Northwestern is friendlier to splitters, especially those with a lot of professional experience and high LSATs. What other schools out there are similar? What advice do you have? What would up my chances? I've heard miracle splitter stories.

I'm really looking for some advice and encouragement here. I am willing to do whatever it takes. If I have to continue taking non-credit upper level classes to show that I am capable of being a good student, so be it. And if I have to gain a couple more years of experience under my belt or try the LSAT again for a perfect score, I will.

I can't tell you how much I want this, but how embarrassed I am thinking about my GPA.

Any kind of advice is welcome. But please -- I'm in a really tough time in my life and already feel horrible about my GPA and feel like I won't be able to be successful with my horrible gpa... be gentle.

smile0751
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:40 pm

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby smile0751 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:05 am

Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.

Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:09 am

smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)

smile0751
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:40 pm

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby smile0751 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:19 am

Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I think the general advice is to just get fee waivers and apply broadly. I think that makes sense for you especially given your broad geographic interest. I'd do the T3-T14, plus 4-6 other schools in areas you're particularly interested in (so California). Then just see what offers you get. I wouldn't ED.

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wmbuff
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby wmbuff » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:23 am

Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.

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rowdy
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 1:16 pm

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby rowdy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:31 am

wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.


Very similar here. 2.x 178+ and a few years out of school. Not sure if OP is trying for this cycle but if not I'd be happy to let you know how mine goes. I've already gotten some interesting feedback from admissions folks... Good and bad.

Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:17 am

rowdy wrote:
wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.


Very similar here. 2.x 178+ and a few years out of school. Not sure if OP is trying for this cycle but if not I'd be happy to let you know how mine goes. I've already gotten some interesting feedback from admissions folks... Good and bad.



Hi! I would love to hear what kind of feedback you've gotten! Good luck with everything :)

Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:25 am

wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.



Keep it up! Remember: your LSAT score can improve. My GPA can't. You got this. I studied for the LSAT, took a course, and believe or not the game Clue is supposed to help out a lot with the logic part. Sounds odd, but it helped me. I'm not applying for this round so I don't have much notes to compare, BUT I would love to hear your experience. You got this!

Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:27 am

smile0751 wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I think the general advice is to just get fee waivers and apply broadly. I think that makes sense for you especially given your broad geographic interest. I'd do the T3-T14, plus 4-6 other schools in areas you're particularly interested in (so California). Then just see what offers you get. I wouldn't ED.


Good idea. I definitely don't make much money at all, sontje fee waiver would be a huge help. Then I could apply for the top 20/25, and see what happens. I just keep telling myself: "all you need is one to give you a shot."

Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:28 am

Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I think the general advice is to just get fee waivers and apply broadly. I think that makes sense for you especially given your broad geographic interest. I'd do the T3-T14, plus 4-6 other schools in areas you're particularly interested in (so California). Then just see what offers you get. I wouldn't ED.


Good idea. I definitely don't make much money at all, sontje fee waiver would be a huge help. Then I could apply for the top 20/25, and see what happens. I just keep telling myself: "all you need is one to give you a shot."


To add on, geographics are definitely important, but unless I get multiple offers, I can't be too picky! California or the northeast would be a dream though.

Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:29 am

Melnonymous wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I think the general advice is to just get fee waivers and apply broadly. I think that makes sense for you especially given your broad geographic interest. I'd do the T3-T14, plus 4-6 other schools in areas you're particularly interested in (so California). Then just see what offers you get. I wouldn't ED.


Good idea. I definitely don't make much money at all, sontje fee waiver would be a huge help. Then I could apply for the top 20/25, and see what happens. I just keep telling myself: "all you need is one to give you a shot."


To add on, geographics are definitely important, but unless I get multiple offers, I can't be too picky! California or the northeast would be a dream though.


P.s. Typing from a glitchy phone. Apologies for typos.

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wmbuff
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby wmbuff » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:30 am

Melnonymous wrote:
rowdy wrote:
wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.


Very similar here. 2.x 178+ and a few years out of school. Not sure if OP is trying for this cycle but if not I'd be happy to let you know how mine goes. I've already gotten some interesting feedback from admissions folks... Good and bad.



Hi! I would love to hear what kind of feedback you've gotten! Good luck with everything :)


It doesn't tell me a ton about the t14 types, but the admissions director at my state school was emphatic that I should submit an addendum addressing my grades. I know received wisdom around these parts says otherwise, and some schools don't even provide a place to do so (or actively discourage it), but I think in extreme cases like ours it will either do a little good or at worst no harm.

Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:34 am

wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
rowdy wrote:
wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.


Very similar here. 2.x 178+ and a few years out of school. Not sure if OP is trying for this cycle but if not I'd be happy to let you know how mine goes. I've already gotten some interesting feedback from admissions folks... Good and bad.



Hi! I would love to hear what kind of feedback you've gotten! Good luck with everything :)


It doesn't tell me a ton about the t14 types, but the admissions director at my state school was emphatic that I should submit an addendum addressing my grades. I know received wisdom around these parts says otherwise, and some schools don't even provide a place to do so (or actively discourage it), but I think in extreme cases like ours it will either do a little good or at worst no harm.


I figure it's worth a shot, you know? Even if you somehow include it in an essay, or send in an additional letter, I say go for it. Be positive. It's great that you're already seeking out advice from your admission director. I'm definitely going to send an appendum whenever possible, and see if I can get interviews to those who don't offer that as an option. Stay strong and hang tight. With perseverance, you will succeed.

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wmbuff
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby wmbuff » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:41 am

Melnonymous wrote:
wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.



Keep it up! Remember: your LSAT score can improve. My GPA can't. You got this. I studied for the LSAT, took a course, and believe or not the game Clue is supposed to help out a lot with the logic part. Sounds odd, but it helped me. I'm not applying for this round so I don't have much notes to compare, BUT I would love to hear your experience. You got this!


I don't think the marginal returns once you're at 99% are likely to be worth pouring in the effort it would take to realize them. If my GPA started with a 3, I could probably justify a retake to try for 175+ to aim for more scholarship money among the t14, but I think the options are unlikely to change dramatically with a 2.x dragging behind.

I'll send out my first wave of applications next week, and hope to have news rolling in over the next few months. I'm applying to the five friendlier t14 schools for splitters, along with WUSTL and a selection of schools in the South.

Melnonymous
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby Melnonymous » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:24 pm

wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.



Keep it up! Remember: your LSAT score can improve. My GPA can't. You got this. I studied for the LSAT, took a course, and believe or not the game Clue is supposed to help out a lot with the logic part. Sounds odd, but it helped me. I'm not applying for this round so I don't have much notes to compare, BUT I would love to hear your experience. You got this!


I don't think the marginal returns once you're at 99% are likely to be worth pouring in the effort it would take to realize them. If my GPA started with a 3, I could probably justify a retake to try for 175+ to aim for more scholarship money among the t14, but I think the options are unlikely to change dramatically with a 2.x dragging behind.

I'll send out my first wave of applications next week, and hope to have news rolling in over the next few months. I'm applying to the five friendlier t14 schools for splitters, along with WUSTL and a selection of schools in the South.


I'm not sure if I asked this already, but what are the 5 splitter friendlg t14s? Thanks!

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wmbuff
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:26 pm

Re: Major Splitter: where should I apply?

Postby wmbuff » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:11 pm

Melnonymous wrote:
wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
wmbuff wrote:
Melnonymous wrote:
smile0751 wrote:Is the 178 a real score or was it on a practice exam? If you actually achieved that score, then 1) congrats and 2) I don't think you're in as bad shape as you think you are. That's a 99% score at a time when high scores are in high demand.


Hi! Yes, this is a real score achieved a little less than a year ago. 1) THANK YOU! and 2) do you know what schools I would have a better chance of getting into with the low GPA? Totally cool if you don't :)


I'm in a similar boat to you (not as good a 99% score, but a marginally better GPA, similar years out of school). I think that smile is right, and that with a good application, folks like us can get *into* a few of the top programs. The trick would be that there won't be much money available, aside from WUSTL, where a high LSAT score has historically done a lot to forgive poor GPAs. If you want to trade advice and notes, PM me.



Keep it up! Remember: your LSAT score can improve. My GPA can't. You got this. I studied for the LSAT, took a course, and believe or not the game Clue is supposed to help out a lot with the logic part. Sounds odd, but it helped me. I'm not applying for this round so I don't have much notes to compare, BUT I would love to hear your experience. You got this!


I don't think the marginal returns once you're at 99% are likely to be worth pouring in the effort it would take to realize them. If my GPA started with a 3, I could probably justify a retake to try for 175+ to aim for more scholarship money among the t14, but I think the options are unlikely to change dramatically with a 2.x dragging behind.

I'll send out my first wave of applications next week, and hope to have news rolling in over the next few months. I'm applying to the five friendlier t14 schools for splitters, along with WUSTL and a selection of schools in the South.


I'm not sure if I asked this already, but what are the 5 splitter friendlg t14s? Thanks!


Based on my searches of mylsn.info, Michigan, Northwestern, Virginia, Duke, and Georgetown are the friendliest, at least down to the 2.5 range. Northwestern is probably at the forefront of that group, with UVA next. They dip the lowest on GPA. Cornell is somewhat friendly to low-3 types, as is Penn, but show a lot of resistance to taking a sub-3 candidate, and I can't find any examples below 2.7. Columbia and Chicago could be worth a longshot application if you're over 175 and willing to pay sticker. Yale took a 2.9/180 once, but see the conventional wisdom about the black box. The other four have no demonstrable track record of accepting a sub-3 candidate. The data in our range is somewhat limited, though, and sometimes accompanied by world-beating softs.

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